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DW looking for another winger

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Old
02-14-2013, 09:42 PM
  #576
Hatrick Marleau
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Originally Posted by jMoneyBrah View Post
I'm a big fan of Mueller and think he would be a good fit on the Sharks. He had his concussion issues but as long as he is healthy - which has been so far in the short season - he would be a great add for the Sharks. Being right handed with a good shot I think he could give the lineup some added flexibilty. Also as an RFA there is a certain amount of cost control for the next two years as the Sharks have to transition to the lower cap next season.
If DW could somehow swing a deal for Demers/Braun and a 2nd/Hamilton/other prospect that would be fantastic in my mind.
Obviosly Florida probably values him for the same reasons, and they are pretty loaded with solid prospects in all positions including defense. So it's probably pretty dificult task to pry him away.
The Sharks could of had him in the summer so I doubt they would give up much for him now. He is a very slow guy and we need faster guys. I wouldn't be interested.

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02-14-2013, 10:19 PM
  #577
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Exactly. DW could have signed him for peanuts if he was interested.

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02-14-2013, 10:33 PM
  #578
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Rather get Kopecky from Florida Less injury prone

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02-14-2013, 11:43 PM
  #579
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I'd rather get Weiss

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02-14-2013, 11:48 PM
  #580
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Originally Posted by Barry Dylan View Post
I'd rather get Weiss
We don't need another center (unless Weiss can play wing).

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02-15-2013, 12:00 AM
  #581
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Originally Posted by couturefan39 View Post
We don't need another center (unless Weiss can play wing).
How bout no more converted wingers? This team has enough of those. Time for some natural skilled wingers.

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02-15-2013, 12:04 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
How bout no more converted wingers? This team has enough of those. Time for some natural skilled wingers.
Agreed.

We have so many Centers or previously were centers

Thornton
Pavelski
Couture
Marleau
Wingels
Handzus
Sheppard
Gomez
Desjardins

We're fine up the middle.....

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02-15-2013, 02:13 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by wtfisthis View Post
How bout no more converted wingers? This team has enough of those. Time for some natural skilled wingers.
The thing is that the Sharks are bit different on centers. Most traditional centers are like JT, pass first. The Sharks have a whole bunch of shoot first centers, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture and Wingels. Pavelski has played the passers role but it has been a long time since where he had the role for a full year. The way to make it work is with playmaking wings. I will grant that Clowe and Havlat both fit that description.

IMO, part of the motive for separating Marleau and JT is to give the Sharks balance in their top lines. Marleau and JT to take on F1 (zone entry), Pavs and Couture (snipe/trail) to be F3 and Clowe and Havlat to do F2 (setup). In part it fails because the F1 needs speed which means Havlat but he doesn't do well on dump recoveries. And JT is a much better F2 and than F1, a little slow for an F1 but if he gets there the puck is his. To his credit, JT has been playing more F1 this year and reasonably well.

Realistically, they need an F1. Fast and strong puck recovery skills, think Eric Cole type, and it would obviate the need for Clowe who is their least effective F2 in the top 6 and who essentially is limited to F2 as his other top 6 skills are not top 6 level.

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02-15-2013, 10:11 AM
  #584
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Most traditional centers are like JT, pass first.
I'm not sure what you mean by traditional, but the best centers in nhl history have been goal scorers.

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02-15-2013, 11:47 AM
  #585
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by traditional, but the best centers in nhl history have been goal scorers.
Explain?

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02-15-2013, 11:53 AM
  #586
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Explain?
players that score a large quantity of goals.

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02-15-2013, 01:12 PM
  #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
players that score a large quantity of goals.
Define "a large quantity of goals"

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02-15-2013, 01:23 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
players that score a large quantity of goals.
I mean which centers. There are plenty of centers that score a lot of goals, but very few that I can think of that are primarily goal-scorers, which is really what matters. I think it would be very difficult to be a great center but not a great playmaker.

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02-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
...to trade Pavelski...
I will kill you.

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02-15-2013, 01:41 PM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superroyain10 View Post
I mean which centers. There are plenty of centers that score a lot of goals, but very few that I can think of that are primarily goal-scorers, which is really what matters. I think it would be very difficult to be a great center but not a great playmaker.
In the top 30 of career points by centers, only 1 has less than 1.3 Assists/Goal (6 with greater than 2 assists/goal)

Then looking at LW, In the top 30 by career points, 15 of them have less than 1.3 assists/goal. For RWers 19 of the top 30 have less than 1.3 assists/goal.

Just looking at that, it seems to me that passing is FAR more important to the center position than to wingers....

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02-15-2013, 02:41 PM
  #591
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I can really only think of Stamkos as an elite center who is primarily a goalscorer.

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02-15-2013, 02:51 PM
  #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrylshutzSydor View Post
players that score a large quantity of goals.
That hardly makes them as a "goal-scorer". A "goal-scorer", at least in the way you are imagining it, is essentially a shoot-first player. There have been plenty of elite centers who have scored large quantities of goals, but there have been very few that fit the mold of the high-volume, high-caliber goal-scorer. By nature, centers are playmakers first simply because they operate in the middle of the ice, an area which is not suited for shooting. The reason why the vast majority of "goal-scorers" exist on the wing is because there is more space to operate individually. Don't pay attention to the ridiculously bloated goal totals of centers in the 1980's and early 1990's, or from the first two years after the lockout. Those years are not an accurate assessment of whether a player was a true goal-scorer. The majority of centers on any all-time point leaderboard are going to have goal totals far superior to their actual goal-scoring ability. There are a handful of them that were simply dominant offensive players, and who were both elite goal-scorers and passers. Gretzky, Lemieux, Sakic, Yzerman, Mikita, and maybe a few more. But to look at the all-time goals list for centers and use it to determine that the vast majority of those on the list were "goal-scorers" is absolutely ridiculous. Even those that racked up high goal totals had far higher assist totals. Higher scoring era. No one would say with a straight face that Pierre Turgeon or Ron Francis or Hawerchuk or pretty much anyone outside the top-8 scoring centers of all-time could qualify as a true goal-scorer.

There are very few centers in the league today that fit the "goal-scorer" bill. The Sharks have one in Logan Couture, so it makes no sense why you think they need another one. They need goal-scorers on the wing. Ryane Clowe's skillset is woefully unfit for a winger. He is a passer first and foremost and he doesn't have even an average shot. The only thing worse than a winger who can't shoot is a slow winger who can't shoot.


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02-15-2013, 02:52 PM
  #593
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I can really only think of Stamkos as an elite center who is primarily a goalscorer.
You could probably add malkin too if you really wanted too. It's really no argument though that centers tend to be looked at to be playmakers moreso then goal scorers.

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02-15-2013, 02:56 PM
  #594
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Originally Posted by Dicdonya View Post
You could probably add malkin too if you really wanted too. It's really no argument though that centers tend to be looked at to be playmakers moreso then goal scorers.
Malkin's about 50/50, like Couture. But I'd see an argument.

But yeah, top centers are almost always playmakers.

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02-15-2013, 02:58 PM
  #595
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I think he's referring to Gretzky and Lemieux basically. Gretzky was probably the best that ever lived at both playmaking and goalscoring, so he kind of doesn't count (freak of nature). Lemieux pretty much the same deal, the two of them had so much talent they were just good at everything.

Generally centers are playmakers.

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02-15-2013, 03:05 PM
  #596
Blades of Glory
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There were only six centers who scored over 30 goals last year. The Sharks have two of them. Pavelski effectively switches off with Thornton as the Sharks' #1 center based on the faceoff location. Logan Couture centers the second line.

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02-15-2013, 03:19 PM
  #597
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think he's referring to Gretzky and Lemieux basically. Gretzky was probably the best that ever lived at both playmaking and goalscoring, so he kind of doesn't count (freak of nature). Lemieux pretty much the same deal, the two of them had so much talent they were just good at everything.

Generally centers are playmakers.
Sakic, Yzerman, Federov they were all deadly goal scorers. Even Forsberg would start putting it in the net when he reached the playoffs, Thornton's best goal totals there match up with Peter's worst.

I agree though Joe shouldn't be held to that kind of standard. The only time he compares to that echelon of centers is as a trivia question.

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02-15-2013, 04:21 PM
  #598
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I think he's referring to Gretzky and Lemieux basically. Gretzky was probably the best that ever lived at both playmaking and goalscoring, so he kind of doesn't count (freak of nature). Lemieux pretty much the same deal, the two of them had so much talent they were just good at everything.

Generally centers are playmakers.
And Joe's goals:assists ratio is about the same as Gretzky's. Lemieux had a much higher ratio than either.

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02-15-2013, 04:31 PM
  #599
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Originally Posted by juantimer View Post
And Joe's goals:assists ratio is about the same as Gretzky's. Lemieux had a much higher ratio than either.
I wasn't agreeing with him, just explaining what I thought he was trying to say. I actually disagree.

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02-15-2013, 05:25 PM
  #600
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
I wasn't agreeing with him, just explaining what I thought he was trying to say. I actually disagree.
I'm obliquely supporting your disagreement

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