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Old
02-05-2013, 04:02 PM
  #151
Negatively Positive
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Hertl will save us! Buy him out of his Europe contract and bring him over. Do it, DW!






I have no idea what the rules are regarding European players and contracts.

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02-05-2013, 04:20 PM
  #152
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
Unless McGinn plays like Crosby, he's not the thing that's keeping the Sharks from being the best team in the league...
McGinn was riding on high percentages last year. In reality, Galiardi and McGinn are very similar caliber players. Put Galiardi with Couture and Havlat like they are putting McGinn with Stastny, and he'd produce as well (iirc, his two assists were when he was on an extended shift with Couture and Havlat).
Don't get me wrong, it was still a bad trade since DW probably could've gotten Galiardi alone for a lot less than what he gave up.
I cannot agree with this.
McGinn is a far superior finisher, goes to the net and has better hockey sense offensively. TJ is the opposite of a good finisher. Weak shot and never in scoring areas. Not to mention his terrible hockey sense.

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02-05-2013, 04:26 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
I cannot agree with this.
McGinn is a far superior finisher, goes to the net and has better hockey sense offensively. TJ is the opposite of a good finisher. Weak shot and never in scoring areas. Not to mention his terrible hockey sense.
Then how come McGinn flashed none of this while here? TJ gets to scoring areas..he just isn't scoring. McGinn has come crashing back to earth as well. Losing Winnik hurt more.

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02-05-2013, 04:35 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Then how come McGinn flashed none of this while here? TJ gets to scoring areas..he just isn't scoring. McGinn has come crashing back to earth as well. Losing Winnik hurt more.
Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSOJNzjUDFk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk4oLfHEwUw

or this one where he rips it through a very thin gap short side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjTFShFmfts

Come on.

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02-05-2013, 04:39 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSOJNzjUDFk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk4oLfHEwUw

or this one where he rips it through a very thin gap short side
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjTFShFmfts

Come on.
A couple of youtube video's do not mean anything. McGinn and Galiardi are similar players, McGinn has a better wrister, Galiardi is better at puck control, but they have similar offensive abilities. McGinn was given every opportunity to succeed and could never sustain consistent play. I'm a whole lot more pissed about Sgarbossa than McGinn in that deal.

It was a stupid trade, but not because we traded McGinn.

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02-05-2013, 04:47 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Then how come McGinn flashed none of this while here? TJ gets to scoring areas..he just isn't scoring. McGinn has come crashing back to earth as well. Losing Winnik hurt more.
No flashes? He was the best non top six forward on our team in scoring goals. Moves to a top line elsewhere and got 13pts in 17 games. Crashing back to earth? He has exactly the same ppg this year with colo that he had last year with them .75. Has not scored a bunch of goals yet and you could argue that .75 ppg is not great but it beats the hell out of the ppg our entire bottom six is getting.

I'm not saying he's the answer to our problems if we still had him, but you are being a little silly trying to say he showed no promise ever.

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02-05-2013, 05:00 PM
  #157
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I like Mcginn, but you seem to like him way too much to be rational. Remember that year he went 45 games before scoring a single goal? And he ended the year with 6 points and the same goal total? That would be the more likely scenario if he were still on the Sharks. Mcginn is not the type of player who carries a line. He would be about as effective as Burish is right now on our club. He's a really poor possession player and he got traded while his value was at its highest.

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02-05-2013, 05:08 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
I like Mcginn, but you seem to like him way too much to be rational. Remember that year he went 45 games before scoring a single goal? And he ended the year with 6 points and the same goal total? That would be the more likely scenario if he were still on the Sharks. Mcginn is not the type of player who carries a line. He would be about as effective as Burish is right now on our club. He's a really poor possession player and he got traded while his value was at its highest.
Lmao ok then I guess no players can ever get better right? You are telling me there is no way mcginn got better then that year?

I was responding to the idea that the poster made that he showed no promise and has crashed back down to earth this year, both which are absurd statements and demonstrably false. We could argue about what we think his ceiling is, but so far hes been a contributer for colorado's top lines and also contributed more goals then anyone else in our bottom six last year. Not to mention has produced more than clowe and havlat have for us this year. I won't say he's better then either one of them but atleast he's producing better then them so far, so take that as you may.

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02-05-2013, 05:14 PM
  #159
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Lmao ok then I guess no players can ever get better right? You are telling me there is no way mcginn got better then that year?

I was responding to the idea that the poster made that he showed no promise and has crashed back down to earth this year, both which are absurd statements and demonstrably false. We could argue about what we think his ceiling is, but so far hes been a contributer for colorado's top lines and also contributed more goals then anyone else in our bottom six last year. Not to mention has produced more than clowe and havlat have for us this year. I won't say he's better then either one of them but atleast he's producing better then them so far, so take that as you may.
Have you talked to any Avalanche fans lately?

Because you are basically wrong on every account. Mcginn's numbers were unsustainable last year and his numbers had no where else to go but down, even while playing with Stastny or Duchene. Like I said earlier, he's a terrible possession player. I love his hard hits and tenacity, but he's not a top-6 player let alone even a good third liner. The trade was bad for a lot of reasons, but Mcginn was not the worst of it.

Our bottom 6 sucks. Mcginn would suck too if he were in our bottom 6. He's not going to magically spark production on his own like you seem to think.

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02-05-2013, 05:26 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Chubbs View Post
Have you talked to any Avalanche fans lately?

Because you are basically wrong on every account. Mcginn's numbers were unsustainable last year and his numbers had no where else to go but down, even while playing with Stastny or Duchene. Like I said earlier, he's a terrible possession player. I love his hard hits and tenacity, but he's not a top-6 player let alone even a good third liner. The trade was bad for a lot of reasons, but Mcginn was not the worst of it.

Our bottom 6 sucks. Mcginn would suck too if he were in our bottom 6. He's not going to magically spark production on his own like you seem to think.
Everyone sucks when they have terrible linemates and McGinn still managed to improve and become legitimate on a line with Handzus and a revolving door of below average players. I can agree that he isn't the best puck possession guy but who cares! that's not his game. He's better suited to have playmakers on his line and just find scoring areas with his shot anyway. I guess Brett Hull sucked too.

It was a mistake that he never played with couture or got a real chance with decent players here. It's not a mistake that when he has he's done well. Meanwhile we take chances on guys who have never proved to have any scoring ability on their own and can't contribute the physicality, defensive and hard working attitude that Ginner has always brought.

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02-05-2013, 05:30 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Sharks fans hadn't soured on Seto; I was super excited to get Burns, but I didn't want Setoguchi gone at all. It's just that the things we traded were not anything I valued as high as a No. 1 defenseman.
The rumors of Seto partying hard are not rumors.. I believe his "heart" is not in it..

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02-05-2013, 05:33 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Everyone sucks when they have terrible linemates and McGinn still managed to improve and become legitimate on a line with Handzus and a revolving door of below average players. I can agree that he isn't the best puck possession guy but who cares! that's not his game. He's better suited to have playmakers on his line and just find scoring areas with his shot anyway. I guess Brett Hull sucked too.

It was a mistake that he never played with couture or got a real chance with decent players here. It's not a mistake that when he has he's done well. Meanwhile we take chances on guys who have never proved to have any scoring ability on their own and can't contribute the physicality, defensive and hard working attitude that Ginner has always brought.
The revisionist history around here is crazy.

Hard working attitude? Burish works hard too, he just sucks at hockey. Hard work is not the issue here, skill and how that skill fits into a team strategy are. I like McGinn, he seemed like a good kid, but he was given EVERY opportunity, far more than most kids like him get on other teams. He never showed any consistency. Even if all of the sudden he becomes a star player I wouldn't blame DW for trading him, you can't hang onto every player forever, you simply do not have that luxury. DW gave McGinn plenty of chances to prove he should stay here, McGinn never did. What he does from this point forward only effects McGinn, not Doug Wilson.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Sgarbossa will end up being the big loss in that trade. We basically zero summed Galiardi for McGinn, and traded Sgarboss for Winnik.

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02-05-2013, 05:33 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Everyone sucks when they have terrible linemates and McGinn still managed to improve and become legitimate on a line with Handzus and a revolving door of below average players. I can agree that he isn't the best puck possession guy but who cares! that's not his game. He's better suited to have playmakers on his line and just find scoring areas with his shot anyway. I guess Brett Hull sucked too.

It was a mistake that he never played with couture or got a real chance with decent players here. It's not a mistake that when he has he's done well. Meanwhile we take chances on guys who have never proved to have any scoring ability on their own and can't contribute the physicality, defensive and hard working attitude that Ginner has always brought.
Galiardi has proven more in the NHL than Mcginn ever did, and he's an excellent puck possession player. The Sharks play a puck possession game and Mcginn did not fit that system at all. The trade was bad, but at least we traded Mcginn while his value was peaking and got Galiardi while his value was dipping.

You're idealizing Mcginn way too much. He's a great glue player who works hard, but he's not a top talent guy and he's not going to spark any offense in our bottom 6. If anything, he'd likely make our bottom lines even worse because the play would always be going the other way.

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02-05-2013, 05:40 PM
  #164
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I think Mcginn is going to be the better player without a doubt. This trade pisses me off more then any of DW's other trades hands down.
Mcginn is developing chemistry with Stastny and they are starting to play some really good hockey. He won't always score, but last nite he was driving the net and creating chances TJ never does :/
It was bad asset managment if nothing else to not give him a chance to play with his best bud and former linemate when they were the best line in the AHL.

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02-05-2013, 06:31 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by hockeyball View Post
The revisionist history around here is crazy.

Hard working attitude? Burish works hard too, he just sucks at hockey. Hard work is not the issue here, skill and how that skill fits into a team strategy are. I like McGinn, he seemed like a good kid, but he was given EVERY opportunity, far more than most kids like him get on other teams. He never showed any consistency. Even if all of the sudden he becomes a star player I wouldn't blame DW for trading him, you can't hang onto every player forever, you simply do not have that luxury. DW gave McGinn plenty of chances to prove he should stay here, McGinn never did. What he does from this point forward only effects McGinn, not Doug Wilson.

I've said it before and I will say it again, Sgarbossa will end up being the big loss in that trade. We basically zero summed Galiardi for McGinn, and traded Sgarboss for Winnik.
I agree for the most part. McGinn
was given alot of chances to put it together and he never did. When he nearly sunk the Sharks with a major penalty in a playoff game in the the third period nonetheless..the hate he got was unreal. Now that hes traded..he a "key" piece. Unbelievable.

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02-05-2013, 06:53 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
It was a mistake that he never played with couture or got a real chance with decent players here. It's not a mistake that when he has he's done well. Meanwhile we take chances on guys who have never proved to have any scoring ability on their own and can't contribute the physicality, defensive and hard working attitude that Ginner has always brought.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robes of Teal View Post
I think Mcginn is going to be the better player without a doubt. This trade pisses me off more then any of DW's other trades hands down.
Mcginn is developing chemistry with Stastny and they are starting to play some really good hockey. He won't always score, but last nite he was driving the net and creating chances TJ never does :/
It was bad asset managment if nothing else to not give him a chance to play with his best bud and former linemate when they were the best line in the AHL.
The whole best bud thing is extremely overrated. They tried it, it didn't work. He played with Couture and the line sucked. He played with Thornton and that line sucked. And the best line when Couture was in the AHL was with Couture and Ferriero. McGinn only played 20 something games in the AHL that year, and I don't remember him playing with Couture that often.

Galiardi also drove the net and created chances when he played with Stastny. Galiardi actually looked good when he was with Havlat and Couture on an extended shift. I'm not sure why they never tried it again. His playstyle doesn't really suit Handzus'.


Last edited by WTFetus: 02-05-2013 at 07:03 PM.
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02-05-2013, 07:00 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
I agree for the most part. McGinn
was given alot of chances to put it together and he never did. When he nearly sunk the Sharks with a major penalty in a playoff game in the the third period nonetheless..the hate he got was unreal. Now that hes traded..he a "key" piece. Unbelievable.
Seriously. I mean I loved the hard hits and decent wheels but c'mon guys, he's the same **** plug we already got in spades dragging down our bottom two lines. McGinn is nothing special, TJ's looking like a close cousin, Winnik is a tool, and the jury's still out on Captain Scarbossa. And Doug Wilson's worst trade? No way - it wasn't a good move but I call shenanigans (and I, much unlike a certain posse of posters around here, think Doug's been decent on the trade front, but yeah, he's done worse.)

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02-05-2013, 07:02 PM
  #168
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The whole best bud thing is extremely overrated. They tried it, it didn't work. He played with Couture and the line sucked. He played with Thornton and that line sucked.

Galiardi also drove the net and created chances when he played with Stastny. Galiardi actually looked good when he was with Havlat and Couture on an extended shift. I'm not sure why they never tried it again. His playstyle doesn't really suit Handzus'.
When you use an example it works better when the sample size is bigger than 1 or 2 shifts.

No seriously though, McGinn never got a real look with Couture or Thornton. Should we dig up the stats/logs? Or will we inevitably end up arguing about sample size if we do?

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02-05-2013, 07:04 PM
  #169
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When you use an example it works better when the sample size is bigger than 1 or 2 shifts.
He started the season with Thornton. It sucked for a couple of games so they broke them apart. It was definitely more than 1 or 2 shifts.
With the way McLellan plays top line vs top line, McGinn would have gotten eaten alive. Seriously, he's a horrible possession player and he's poor defensively. There was a reason why McGinn and Clowe were the only two forwards who didn't penalty kill.

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02-05-2013, 07:06 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
He started the season with Thornton. It sucked for a couple of games so they broke them apart. It was definitely more than 1 or 2 shifts.
With the way McLellan plays top line vs top line, McGinn would have gotten eaten alive. Seriously, he's a horrible possession player and he's poor defensively. There was a reason why McGinn and Clowe were the only two forwards who didn't penalty kill.
So, a couple of games. lol.

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02-05-2013, 07:07 PM
  #171
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
When you use an example it works better when the sample size is bigger than 1 or 2 shifts.

No seriously though, McGinn never got a real look with Couture or Thornton. Should we dig up the stats/logs? Or will we inevitably end up arguing about sample size if we do?
I actually, really, really, really want to see these stats.

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02-05-2013, 07:10 PM
  #172
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So, a couple of games. lol.
A couple of games is enough to know that McGinn was not a good fit with either Couture or Thornton. It's certainly better than your theory of "He'd be so good with them! I have no proof but I just know it!"

He's not great defensively, he's not a good possession player. All he has is his speed and a decent wrister. Even with that wrister, his hockey IQ isn't great enough to find the holes for Thornton to pass it to.
I feel bad for trashing McGinn so much since I liked him as well, but he wasn't nearly as good as he was in your imagination. Then again, this is the same guy who just said Martin Havlat has no hands or puck control.

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02-05-2013, 07:18 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
A couple of games is enough to know that McGinn was not a good fit with either Couture or Thornton. It's certainly better than your theory of "He'd be so good with them! I have no proof but I just know it!"

He's not great defensively, he's not a good possession player. All he has is his speed and a decent wrister. Even with that wrister, his hockey IQ isn't great enough to find the holes for Thornton to pass it to.
I feel bad for trashing McGinn so much since I liked him as well, but he wasn't nearly as good as he was in your imagination. Then again, this is the same guy who just said Martin Havlat has no hands or puck control.
Your argument is already flawed when you quote me with **** I never even said. Then continue to quote me out of context.

I said Havlat's hands have been horrible of late. I watched him fumble away a couple of chances last night at the Honda Center even ..but that's a whole other topic and it's clear that you doing what most people do when they think they are losing an argument.

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02-05-2013, 07:19 PM
  #174
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Have you talked to any Avalanche fans lately?

Because you are basically wrong on every account. Mcginn's numbers were unsustainable last year and his numbers had no where else to go but down, even while playing with Stastny or Duchene. Like I said earlier, he's a terrible possession player. I love his hard hits and tenacity, but he's not a top-6 player let alone even a good third liner. The trade was bad for a lot of reasons, but Mcginn was not the worst of it.

Our bottom 6 sucks. Mcginn would suck too if he were in our bottom 6. He's not going to magically spark production on his own like you seem to think.
I've already show mcginns stats are the exact same as they were last year in ppg so he is obviously SO FAR sustaining exactly the production he got last year. That's not arguable it's right there for all to see. So until his production actually starts falling short any fan that says he can't sustain it is simply wrong. Which is why listening to fans can be problematic. Not all of them are actually looking at things clearly. Just what they feel someone is or isn't doing.

Also please note where I said that I thought he would spark offense on our bottom six. Don't put words in my mouth. I only ever said he showed promise and did not hit a wall this year, which someone said he did not, and did, respectively.

He also is producing more then clowe and havlat so far this year, and produced more goals than anyone else in our bott six last year. That is all I said and all of those things are indisputable.

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02-05-2013, 07:21 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
Your argument is already flawed when you quote me with **** I never even said. Then continue to quote me out of context.
So what exactly are you basing your "McGinn would be so good with Thornton or Couture" theory on? Like I said, he's not a good possession player and he isn't great defensively.

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Originally Posted by dwood16 View Post
I said Havlat's hands have been horrible of late.
And it really hasn't been. He hasn't been his greatest, but his hands certainly aren't horrible. Easily still the best hands on the team.

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Originally Posted by Dicdonya View Post
He also is producing more then clowe and havlat so far this year, and produced more goals than anyone else in our bott six last year. That is all I said and all of those things are indisputable.
Except he's playing in the Top-6 right now. There is no guarantee that he'd be doing that if he was in the Sharks bottom-6. The bottom-6 might actually be worse since he's a worse board player and he's worse defensively than Galiardi.

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