Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
The fact that you would suggest even the remote possibility otherwise shows how little you know of Karlsson.
The passing ability is a much closer discussion, but you were so off on the stickwork that all credibility in your argument was lost.
Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
The fact that you would suggest even the remote possibility otherwise shows how little you know of Karlsson.
The passing ability is a much closer discussion, but you were so off on the stickwork that all credibility in your argument was lost.
Seriously. Did you not even watch the game today?
Lidstroms defensive stick was so much better than Karlsson's it's in a different universe. You admitted to not watching him play much, so you probably shouldn't comment on the matter.
What a joke.
edit: that was bourque you said that about, but regardless... I assume if you never saw Bourque play you never saw a prime lidstrom. Even when he wasn't in his prime, it's not even close.
Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
The fact that you would suggest even the remote possibility otherwise shows how little you know of Karlsson.
The passing ability is a much closer discussion, but you were so off on the stickwork that all credibility in your argument was lost.
Seriously. Did you not even watch the game today?
Ok, now I know you can't be serious..
Lidstrom never had to throw a body check because of his nearly unmatched stick work.
The fact you're even comparing the two shows how little you've seen of Lidstrom.. ( I have to assume you haven't seen much of him because nobody could be so blind or such a blatant homer)
Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
The fact that you would suggest even the remote possibility otherwise shows how little you know of Karlsson.
The passing ability is a much closer discussion, but you were so off on the stickwork that all credibility in your argument was lost.
Seriously. Did you not even watch the game today?
Pretty sure you just lost 'all credibility'.
You obviously never watched Lidstrom play during the 90's or early 2000's in his prime.
I wish people would stop comparing guys who haven't seen their 23rd birthday yet to established Hall of Fame players who have the benefit of an entire career's worth of numbers and memories.
You want to compare a kid to one of the top-3 best defencemen of all time? Wait until that kid's career is over, then make the comparison. You owe that much to the HOFer, at the very least.
"Karlsson = Lidstrom"? Get out of here. Come back in 15 years, then we'll talk.
Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
The fact that you would suggest even the remote possibility otherwise shows how little you know of Karlsson.
The passing ability is a much closer discussion, but you were so off on the stickwork that all credibility in your argument was lost.
Seriously. Did you not even watch the game today?
Do you recall the 97 Stanley Cup Finals? Philadelphia got elminated in 4 games. Their main game plan was to intimidate Detroit physically but their first line was completely shut down in these 4 games. It was especially bad for Lindros who was limited to a whopping two assists the whole series. Lidstrom would not engage Philly's forwards physically, he'd position himself accordingly and separate them from the puck or strip it from their sticks.
I know Karlsson very well, you guys are a division rival. The fact you're telling me Lidstrom isn't even close in terms of stickwork just emphasizes your lack of knowledge. So you think Lidstrom was just good at positioning himself and doing nothing else? You're wrong. He'd position himself to force a bad play or the forwards along the boards so he could just strip away the puck from them. That or he'd force them to dump the puck. Getting past Lidstrom 1 on 1 was something very very rare even for the best danglers, mainly because of his great stickwork. Lidstrom wasn't physical because he used his positioning and stickwork to steal the puck.
I wish people would stop comparing guys who haven't seen their 23rd birthday yet to established Hall of Fame players who have the benefit of an entire career's worth of numbers and memories.
You want to compare a kid to one of the top-3 best defencemen of all time? Wait until that kid's career is over, then make the comparison. You owe that much to the HOFer, at the very least.
"Karlsson = Lidstrom"? Get out of here. Come back in 15 years, then we'll talk.
I never compared Karlsson to Lidstrom. I compared aspects of the game between the two.
Karlsson was also a better skater than Brett Hull, what does years in the league have to do with that fact?
I never compared Karlsson to Lidstrom. I compared aspects of the game between the two.
Karlsson was also a better skater than Brett Hull, what does years in the league have to do with that fact?
Except you're wrong about the stick work. You admitted yourself Lidstrom was better positionally. Once he'd position himself, what would he do? Stand idle until his partner would recover the puck? His stickwork allowed him to be one of the few dominant dmen good on defense. Guys like Pronger, Stevens or Chelios were defensive stalwarts mainly because they could throw the body and use their strength to push guys around and make them lose the puck or their balance. Lidstrom used his stick.
I never compared Karlsson to Lidstrom. I compared aspects of the game between the two.
Karlsson was also a better skater than Brett Hull, what does years in the league have to do with that fact?
Nope, I'm not helping you out here. You got yourself into this mess, you get out of it.
Nothing good ever comes from comparing your own barely-can-shave player to possibly the greatest defenceman who has ever played who's not called "Orr".
Nope, I'm not helping you out here. You got yourself into this mess, you get out of it.
Nothing good ever comes from comparing your own barely-can-shave player to possibly the greatest defenceman who has ever played who's not called "Orr".
Good luck, chum.
There's no mess to get out of. Karlsson was a better skater than Brett Hull. Just because Hull is one of the GOAT doesn't make that fact any less true, nor should it make me any less compelled to say so.
Same goes with Lidstrom. Not saying Karlsson is/was/will be better than him, but there are certainly aspects of the game he was better than him and that's the way it is, and I see no reason to shy away or deny that fact.
Honestly Sureves, you're serious about the stickwork part? Lidstrom and Murphy shutdown Philadelphia because of their stickwork.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sureves
There's no mess to get out of. Karlsson was a better skater than Brett Hull. Just because Hull is one of the GOAT doesn't make that fact any less true, nor should it make me any less compelled to say so.
Same goes with Lidstrom. Not saying Karlsson is/was/will be better than him, but there are certainly aspects of the game he was better than him and that's the way it is, and I see no reason to shy away or deny that fact.
You'd be right mostly. Karlsson is a better skater than Lidstrom ever was. He might be the best defenseman in terms of skating since Niedermayer. That stickwork part is completely incorrect though.
I never compared Karlsson to Lidstrom. I compared aspects of the game between the two.
Karlsson was also a better skater than Brett Hull, what does years in the league have to do with that fact?
You opened yourself up to a **** storm. You should probably just leave the thread because that statement about Lidstrom's stick checking being behind Karlsson's was massively incorrect and now you're going to have a lot of people attacking you.
There's no mess to get out of. Karlsson was a better skater than Brett Hull. Just because Hull is one of the GOAT doesn't make that fact any less true, nor should it make me any less compelled to say so.
Same goes with Lidstrom. Not saying Karlsson is/was/will be better than him, but there are certainly aspects of the game he was better than him and that's the way it is, and I see no reason to shy away or deny that fact.
Quit backpedaling, you claimed Karlsson has a better stick than Lidstrom, who probably had the best defensive stick in NHL history.
Honestly Sureves, you're serious about the stickwork part? Lidstrom and Murphy shutdown Philadelphia because of their stickwork.
You'd be right mostly. Karlsson is a better skater than Lidstrom ever was. He might be the best defenseman in terms of skating since Niedermayer. That stickwork part is completely incorrect though.
We disagree, and we're far apart in our opinions. Unfortunately, there's no way to prove my argument so there's really nothing for us to discuss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitchslap
Quit backpedaling, you claimed Karlsson has a better stick than Lidstrom, who probably had the best defensive stick in NHL history.
Not backpedaling at all. He said you shouldn't compare young players who have proved very little (comparatively) to the best all time who have a huge resume with a plethora of accomplishments.
I was illustrating that that's a silly view to have. Just because one player is better and more accomplished than another, doesn't mean that we can't compare their individual aspects with eachother.
As for the stickwork, see above, I feel like I'm living in a totally different universe than you guys. I have never seen a defenseman able of stripping the puck from players as well as Karlsson does, and I'm not convinced I ever will.
EDIT: Seriously, did you not watch the Habs-Sens game today? I don't understand.
I wouldn't call it "spotty as hell"; it could be better though.
But what some of you guys don't realize is that if he had great positional play, he'd probably be the best defenseman to ever play the game behind Orr.
So yes, you're right that that's his weakest spot, but everyone has weaknesses.
Maybe "spotty as hell" is a bit too critical, but I think he makes up for a lot of his positional mistakes with his skating ability, and I especially notice him getting confused and out of position if he's trying to get back after a pinch (if he's not the one that gets back and takes care of the puck carrier)
And yeah you're right, if he was great positionally as well he'd have almost no holes in his game at all. I guess it'd be down to him not being real physical and any nitpicks about his decision making in terms of pinches, which isn't much to complain about
Lidstrom was never close to Karlsson in terms of stripping the puck from the opponent. Not even close to close, Karlsson is an absolute animal in this area.
The fact that you would suggest even the remote possibility otherwise shows how little you know of Karlsson.
The passing ability is a much closer discussion, but you were so off on the stickwork that all credibility in your argument was lost.
Seriously. Did you not even watch the game today?
This may be the biggest joke of a post on HFBoards.
Seriously. Did you not watch Lidstrom at all during his career?
Maybe "spotty as hell" is a bit too critical, but I think he makes up for a lot of his positional mistakes with his skating ability, and I especially notice him getting confused and out of position if he's trying to get back after a pinch (if he's not the one that gets back and takes care of the puck carrier)
And yeah you're right, if he was great positionally as well he'd have almost no holes in his game at all. I guess it'd be down to him not being real physical and any nitpicks about his decision making in terms of pinches, which isn't much to complain about
That's an accurate analysis. Often times when he backchecks after a pinch he ends up just kind of floating as a defenseman/forward hybrid. One of his weaker areas to be sure, and as I said, he's off to a rougher start this year; a lot more bone-head plays than last year IMO.
