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Old
02-04-2013, 05:34 PM
  #51
Darth Yoda
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Orr. Fedorov. Sakic maybe. Modano I guess.

Your point stands, though; there aren't that many and never have been.

Edit: Forgot Trotts.
I think Crosby when at his highest is better offensively than all those except Orr. Obviously Fedorov, Trottier and maybe Sakic is better than him defensively.

We need not question that Crosby is better offensively than Malkin also, maybe defensively too although Malkin certainly is no slouch so that is not for certain.

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02-04-2013, 05:38 PM
  #52
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I think Malkin values not having to deal with the off-ice responsibilities that largely fall on Crosby's shoulder as a North American and for being the more "marketable" player.

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02-04-2013, 05:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Apples/Oranges. I like that both are on my team. I also think they are the 2 best players in the NHL. Next in line would be Stammer.
Perfectly said

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02-04-2013, 05:46 PM
  #54
Hikaru Kitsune
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Chris Kunitz is Legend.
That would certainly explain everyone else starting the season playing like zombie/vampire hybrid things.

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:12 AM
  #55
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Crosby 622 points in 433 games. (1.40 ppg)
Malkin 539 points in 426 games (1.24 ppg)

In 6 more games Crosby has 83! more Points....


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Old
02-05-2013, 03:08 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by bambamcam4ever View Post
Yeah, don't know about that. He is more exciting player to watch and can go through the defense more easily because of his longer reach, but Crosby has much better vision and is simply the more effective player. Malkin's best was last year where he played with Neal and Kunitz and was on pace to score 119 while Crosby was on a 133 point pace and rising while on a line with Kunitz and Dupuis.
WOW! Really? Really?! Never compare a prorated average of 22 games to 75. What's more realistic? C'mon, it's not even close. Then I can say Evgeni Malkin is better of the two, because at one point he had 58 points in his first 33 games during the 08/09 season. That would have put Malkin at a 144 point pace. Malkin wins! Right? No. He finished with 113 points that year. That's 31 off his prorated mark, because nobody in today's NHL could keep up with that pace. Or we can use Mario Lemieux's sample size of his first 12 games (16-24-40) of the 95/96 campaign, which would have him prorated to score 233 points in the 70 games he played that season. He finished with 161. I remember some crazy stats. My point is, you can't say one is better than the other on the principal of prorated numbers of small sample sizes. In this particular case, using a grossly small sample size to a nearly full season's worth. What's more realistic? Malkin finishing with 119 points in 82 games or Sidney Crosby finishing off with 133?

I would say when it comes to flat out offence, nobody has the creativity with the puck like a Malkin. The way he roams around the ice he reminds me a lot of Lemieux, circling for his chance to make the perfect play and act on it. Where as Crosby is the kind of guy who is about perfecting his game. Oh, playing abysmal defence. I can work on that. Be better on the dot, I'll take a Summer to work on my face offs. The way he protects the puck and plays on the defensive side of things and dominate guys physically, in a way that is different from most people's view of a physical player, is what makes Crosby so damn amazing. He's a details guy. He wants to be the best at every aspect of the game and works hard to achieve it, because he believes he can. His will to evolve is unmatched. Having said that, you have to be laughing if you possess either player. The Pens have both, so they really are laughing.

P.S. Thomas Vanek should be the next guy to 200 points. j/k bambamcam4ever Just razzing.


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Old
02-05-2013, 08:20 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Malkin because he's more fun to watch and he's Russian

Seriously though, it's very close. Sid is the better all around player and a guy that you can put in every situation. I still think Malkin can be that guy (as has been in Russia) but he isn't consistently committed to it. Faceoffs are a good example. There is no reason that Geno should be so brutal at them sometimes and so good (the Neal faceoff) other times. Sid is more consistent there so he will be relied on more.
One player's A game = Malkin
One player's healthy season = Crosby

Only two players I've ever seen live completely control the flow of a game like Lemieux in my lifetime are Jagr and Malkin.

EDIT: I suppose that's kind of Malkin's curse. If he could play his A game consistently, then he'd be Mario 2.0. But, there's never going to be another Mario, never.

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02-05-2013, 08:37 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
One player's A game = Malkin
One player's healthy season = Crosby

Only two players I've ever seen live completely control the flow of a game like Lemieux in my lifetime are Jagr and Malkin.

EDIT: I suppose that's kind of Malkin's curse. If he could play his A game consistently, then he'd be Mario 2.0. But, there's never going to be another Mario, never.
No doubt. Crosby's intensity can take over a game but he's not going to control the game like Malkin. Geno will seemingly have the puck on his stick all game if he's on.

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02-05-2013, 08:45 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
No doubt. Crosby's intensity can take over a game but he's not going to control the game like Malkin. Geno will seemingly have the puck on his stick all game if he's on.
Like Jagr did sometimes. Like Mario did most times.

Everyone appreciates different things about hockey. It's like art, where beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

My choice is watching that game where a Geno (like a Jagr and a Mario before) would just be a magnet for the puck all over the ice.

Sid's as hard a worker as I've ever seen. Supremely skilled. But, when Malkin gets into that zone, he's just magical.

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02-05-2013, 08:46 AM
  #60
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i love crosby, and hope/want him to go down as one of the top 10 players of all-time. however i think these injuries have really sucked a lot. he hasnt been able to take his game to that all-time great level offensively, which i hate. i also think he's going to be rusty/not on his game for a long time (more than we appreciate), to be honest.

right now i think malkin is the better player.

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Old
02-05-2013, 10:22 AM
  #61
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Crosby. Even with the injuries, and the time off, and Geno elevating his game.

That's taking nothing away from Geno. He's an absolute all-world talent and the fact that it's up for debate says something, but Crosby was on pace for a 60g, 130p season before he went down with the concussion. Now that he looks comfortable and back on track, I'm sure we'll be seeing more of that from him. Now, all we have to do is land Bobby Ryan...

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Old
02-05-2013, 10:31 AM
  #62
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For the record malkin is my favorite athlete in the world! and that includes all other sports.
However if I had to pick a hockey player to start my team it would be 87. And this is pre injury Sid. I am talking about relentless, fast skating, down and dirty Sid that does it all. I feel by the end of this season he will be back.
As far as 71 goes, too much of Slavic mood (and this comes from one so I know what I am talking about) in here to based the destiny of my team around, however when Gino flies around I stop everything and just enjoy...

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Old
02-05-2013, 10:39 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainZappBrannigan View Post
Crosby. Even with the injuries, and the time off, and Geno elevating his game.

That's taking nothing away from Geno. He's an absolute all-world talent and the fact that it's up for debate says something, but Crosby was on pace for a 60g, 130p season before he went down with the concussion. Now that he looks comfortable and back on track, I'm sure we'll be seeing more of that from him. Now, all we have to do is land Bobby Ryan...



Damnit Ray get it done

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Old
02-05-2013, 12:13 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goalsfordinner View Post
Crosby 622 points in 433 games. (1.40 ppg)
Malkin 539 points in 426 games (1.24 ppg)

In 6 more games Crosby has 83! more Points....
#1 and #2 in ppg since the 04-05 lockout.

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Old
02-05-2013, 12:17 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Luigi Lemieux View Post
#1 and #2 in ppg since the 04-05 lockout.
What's PPG for Crosby without Malkin in the lineup and visa versa? Me thinks Malkin is a little higher without Crosby in the lineup than with and that Crosby is less.

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Old
02-05-2013, 12:30 PM
  #66
Frederick Stanley
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Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
The better question is who is the 3rd best hockey player in the world now? 10 people have 10 different answers.

I am starting to think it is Stamkos! I don't know who it is.
fixed

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Old
02-05-2013, 01:59 PM
  #67
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Funny how we're obsessed with points-per-game averages, yet discount the bigger thing here.... games played per season. No matter how good a player is, if he doesn't play because he's on the IR, he's useless to us. For that reason, Malkin has one up on Crosby. Both have played similar amount of games in their career, while one has played one more season than the next guy. Just saying.

In the end, it doesn't matter to a Penguins fan. We have both and dammed if that doesn't make us a spoiled lot.

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02-05-2013, 02:04 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Darth Yoda View Post
I think Crosby when at his highest is better offensively than all those except Orr. Obviously Fedorov, Trottier and maybe Sakic is better than him defensively.

We need not question that Crosby is better offensively than Malkin also, maybe defensively too although Malkin certainly is no slouch so that is not for certain.
Crosby is certainly better than Malkin defensively.

Pre-Steckel hit Crosby was the most dominant player the NHL has seen since maybe Lemieux's prime. It's why I don't buy the whole 'Crosby is more consistent, Malkin has higher ceiling' mantra. Same with the whole 'talent' argument. Malkin has the size advantage and uses it to his advantage and can be flashier at times though.

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02-05-2013, 02:10 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by PensFanSince1989 View Post
Crosby is certainly better than Malkin defensively.

Pre-Steckel hit Crosby was the most dominant player the NHL has seen since maybe Lemieux's prime. It's why I don't buy the whole 'Crosby is more consistent, Malkin has higher ceiling' mantra. Same with the whole 'talent' argument. Malkin has the size advantage and uses it to his advantage and can be flashier at times though.
Everyone who follows the game closely should know by now how dominate Crosby is in all facets of the game. He's the most complete player in my eyes, and I don't care about hits and fighting (although he will do both). I am talking offensively, defensively, how he plays on and off the puck. His puck protection and his work on the face offs.... Beating a dead horse, but the thing that I love more than anything about Sid the Kid, is most players who are dominate in one area, say offensively as an example, don't feel the need to round out their game because they are doing as advertised. As long as they are they can collect their pay check at the end of the day. If you're a goal scorer like a Brett Hull type and you're putting up 40-50 goals a season in your prime, you're in everyone's good graces. That's not good enough for Sid. Never witnessed a player who wants to be the best at every aspect of the game. He's all about the details, details, details.

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02-05-2013, 02:29 PM
  #70
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This team goes as Crosby goes. When Crosby's not playing well, we're not playing well.

Of course, that may just be hierarchical, because he is still clearly the No. 1 center when both are healthy. It's Sid's team. If this were Geno's team, then it quite likely might be the reverse situation.

All I know is this combination masks a LOT of problems on this team, most notably the schizophrenic and supposed No. 1 goaltender and the coach who loves to play favorites instead of young, developing talent.

It wouldn't be pretty if we didn't have these two.

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Old
02-05-2013, 02:41 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
This team goes as Crosby goes. When Crosby's not playing well, we're not playing well.

Of course, that may just be hierarchical, because he is still clearly the No. 1 center when both are healthy. It's Sid's team. If this were Geno's team, then it quite likely might be the reverse situation.

All I know is this combination masks a LOT of problems on this team, most notably the schizophrenic and supposed No. 1 goaltender and the coach who loves to play favorites instead of young, developing talent.

It wouldn't be pretty if we didn't have these two.
Actually, I think this team goes as Geno goes in the playoffs.

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02-05-2013, 02:57 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Actually, I think this team goes as Geno goes in the playoffs.
And one could argue that as Staal went, so we went in the playoffs.

The bottom line is we needed all three to win a Cup, and we'll need the big two (and others) to win one again. And by others, I mean people who aren't here yet.

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02-05-2013, 03:04 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Actually, I think this team goes as Geno goes in the playoffs.
THIS! We bombed in 2008 after round 3 because Malkin didn't show up in the final two rounds that year... 5 points in the last two rounds vs. 17 in the first 10. The following year he was lights out, especially in the final two rounds in 09. So that says something.

Oh, and he was a no show behind phantom passes to nobody in the 2010 playoffs against the Habs. Ugh.

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Old
02-05-2013, 03:11 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
And one could argue that as Staal went, so we went in the playoffs.

The bottom line is we needed all three to win a Cup, and we'll need the big two (and others) to win one again. And by others, I mean people who aren't here yet.
Which is why some of us here are saying two good wingers each for Sid and Geno, but that's another topic for another thread.

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02-05-2013, 03:33 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Acquizitor View Post
Malkin thrives under pressure, he also thrives when he is angry. When a better player (Sid) is ruling the game Malkin's "hardly care" attitude is sometimes visible. It's in Pen's and his own interests to be traded imo. Maybe it should have been done after last season to get the most value from the trade. "Sell high" are wise words.
This is the second post in a row where you are grievously wrong.

Geno doesn't under perform with Sid in the lineup; on the contrary, his PPG with Sid is noticeably higher.

Secondly, Malkin is at his worst when he's angry. He's prone to take stupid penalties and try to go to hero mode. Sid, on the other hand, is a complete beast when angry.

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