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Setoguchi to Pittsburgh

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Old
02-04-2013, 11:53 AM
  #76
domaug*
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
Before we go any further, we should check with OCPenguin to see if he approves

You know Seto is on the 4th line dont you
seriously, like i said earlier, if Despres and Bortuzzo keep up their good play, i would consider that trade. i love how Niskanen plays, but Despres and Bortuzzo aren't doing badly at all with him gone.

Niskanen, IMO, has more value than Setoguchi, and adding Clutterbuck and Maatta into the trade pretty much levels out the value. Maatta's not the Pens' best D prospect, but he's not worthless like some Wild fans here think.

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02-04-2013, 11:55 AM
  #77
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Seto is struggling because every forward not named Parise, Koivu or Heatley is struggling. They're all in it together. This isn't a case of just one guy playing bad.

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02-04-2013, 11:56 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Utterly Disgusting View Post
Not bad, sir. Something could be worked around that, I think.
This wouldn't be a horrible trade. But then you have to hope ( as Minnesota) that Zucker and Larsson can fill those spots left by Seto and Clutter

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02-04-2013, 11:57 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
Seto is struggling because every forward not named Parise, Koivu or Heatley is struggling. They're all in it together. This isn't a case of just one guy playing bad.
Spot on. I'd really like to see him get hot and silence this trade talk for a while. Or at least up his value to other teams if it still comes to a trade.

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02-04-2013, 11:58 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by centcougar07 View Post
He's easily a 30 goal scorer with Crosby. Get real bud.
Doesn't mean he's worth Maata.

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02-04-2013, 11:58 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by psupens View Post
seriously, like i said earlier, if Despres and Bortuzzo keep up their good play, i would consider that trade. i love how Niskanen plays, but Despres and Bortuzzo aren't doing badly at all with him gone.

Niskanen, IMO, has more value than Setoguchi, and adding Clutterbuck and Maatta into the trade pretty much levels out the value. Maatta's not the Pens' best D prospect, but he's not worthless like some Wild fans here think.
Maatta was ranked in the top 10 (#10) by TSN prior to the draft. He's a valuable prospect... but that's all he is, is a prospect. He's proven absolutely nothing (either in the NHL or AHL). I have no issues moving him - and if him and Niskanen could get Cutterbuck in addition to Seto, I'd be very very happy.

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02-04-2013, 12:00 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by mwalluk View Post
Doesn't mean he's worth Maata.
He's worth more than Maatta. We would be adding if it was Maatta for Seto. Maatta (even with his #10 ranking before the draft) has proven nothing at the professional level. Seto has. So as much as you may like Maatta, you're way over valuing him.

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02-04-2013, 12:07 PM
  #83
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All I'm saying is Seto isn't worth what you guys want and isn't worth it to Pens fans for what your asking. Seto isn't an ELITE talent. Yes, he's a good player. Realistically, he's worth more than PONI. Poni was once a mid 20 goal scorer and only got our prospect Luca Caputi.


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02-04-2013, 12:08 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
Before we go any further, we should check with OCPenguin to see if he approves

You know Seto is on the 4th line dont you
Big approval from me for Clutterbuck. He is what Pittsburgh would need. I'm not a fan of Seto's at all, but provided Despres and Bortuzzo keep playing well, I wouldn't be that opposed to doing that. Maybe then we could flip Seto for something.

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02-04-2013, 12:11 PM
  #85
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Realistically a trade for Seto would be Tyler Kennedy and a young player/pick for Seto.

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02-04-2013, 12:13 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Maatta was ranked in the top 10 (#10) by TSN prior to the draft. He's a valuable prospect... but that's all he is, is a prospect. He's proven absolutely nothing (either in the NHL or AHL). I have no issues moving him - and if him and Niskanen could get Cutterbuck in addition to Seto, I'd be very very happy.
I'd love that deal. But we have to stay healthy to allow moving Niskanen and Minnesota will need their forward prospects to step up.

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02-04-2013, 12:14 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Big approval from me for Clutterbuck. He is what Pittsburgh would need. I'm not a fan of Seto's at all, but provided Despres and Bortuzzo keep playing well, I wouldn't be that opposed to doing that. Maybe then we could flip Seto for something.
Seriously?! Have you looked at our top 6 wingers lately?

Neal, Kunitz (okay, not a fan of Kunitz, but can keep my mouth shut after yesterday's game)... then we have Dupuis (yes Dupuis), and then... Boychuk. Love the way he played, but need to see a LOT more of him before I stop looking for a legit top 6 forward for that line. But Dupuis AND Kunitz have no business being on the same line in the top 6. Seto would instantly be our 3rd best forward. Why would we flip him!? He's what we're missing!

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02-04-2013, 12:26 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
Seriously?! Have you looked at our top 6 wingers lately?

Neal, Kunitz (okay, not a fan of Kunitz, but can keep my mouth shut after yesterday's game)... then we have Dupuis (yes Dupuis), and then... Boychuk. Love the way he played, but need to see a LOT more of him before I stop looking for a legit top 6 forward for that line. But Dupuis AND Kunitz have no business being on the same line in the top 6. Seto would instantly be our 3rd best forward. Why would we flip him!? He's what we're missing!
Yes, I'm looking at our top six. It's not glamourous after Crosby, Malkin and Neal. However, you are buying into the hype that Seto is that 30-goal scorer with Crosby the Wild fans say he is. We have heard that many times before. The Setogucchi of four years ago, sure I would have faith in. The Seto now, I don't. To me, he is Tyler Kennedy. We already have one of those. I know Kennedy has never scored 30 goals in a season, like Seto. However, now, to me, they are the same player.

Fact remains, do GMs have to pay a high price on a player that used to be a 30-goal scorer four years ago and has fallen to the high teens? You pay the price of what their value is today, not what it once was four years ago.

I wouldn't trade for Seto at all. The idea of Clutterbuck and Seto together intrigued me, only from the fact you get Clutterbuck. Shero needs to utilize his assets to the best of his ability. Moving one for a questionmark in Seto, isn't wise IMO.

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Old
02-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Yes, I'm looking at our top six. It's not glamourous after Crosby, Malkin and Neal. However, you are buying into the hype that Seto is that 30-goal scorer with Crosby the Wild fans say he is. We have heard that many times before. The Setogucchi of four years ago, sure I would have faith in. The Seto now, I don't. To me, he is Tyler Kennedy. We already have one of those. I know Kennedy has never scored 30 goals in a season, like Seto. However, now, to me, they are the same player.

Fact remains, do GMs have to pay a high price on a player that used to be a 30-goal scorer four years ago and has fallen to the high teens? You pay the price of what their value is today, not what it once was four years ago.

I wouldn't trade for Seto at all. The idea of Clutterbuck and Seto together intrigued me, only from the fact you get Clutterbuck. Shero needs to utilize his assets to the best of his ability. Moving one for a questionmark in Seto, isn't wise IMO.
Dupuis got 25 goals last year. So that would make him a 25 goal scorer. Whats his value then? Even tho Seto hasnt gotten 30 in 3 or 4 years, I would say most Pens fans would prefer him on a line with Crosby as opposed to Dupuis

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02-04-2013, 12:35 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
What about Setoguchi+2nd/B prospect for Volchenkov? And the Devils retain 1 or 2M for a 3rd?

Or if the Pens aren't interested in Setoguchi, maybe Coyle+ for Despres?
Done deal.

Ill fax Lou , you fax Fletcher

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02-04-2013, 12:40 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Yes, I'm looking at our top six. It's not glamourous after Crosby, Malkin and Neal. However, you are buying into the hype that Seto is that 30-goal scorer with Crosby the Wild fans say he is. We have heard that many times before. The Setogucchi of four years ago, sure I would have faith in. The Seto now, I don't. To me, he is Tyler Kennedy. We already have one of those. I know Kennedy has never scored 30 goals in a season, like Seto. However, now, to me, they are the same player.

Fact remains, do GMs have to pay a high price on a player that used to be a 30-goal scorer four years ago and has fallen to the high teens? You pay the price of what their value is today, not what it once was four years ago.

I wouldn't trade for Seto at all. The idea of Clutterbuck and Seto together intrigued me, only from the fact you get Clutterbuck. Shero needs to utilize his assets to the best of his ability. Moving one for a questionmark in Seto, isn't wise IMO.
No, while I think it's possible he could hit 30/30 with Crosby, I want him because even on a crappy team last year full of injuries and no secondary offense he was a 20g guy (fine, 19g in 69 games), and had 20g+ the two previous years, in addition to the 30 he had previously. At absolute worse case he's TK. Best case he's Neal 0.85. Realistically he's somewhere in between. I would guess he'd be a constant 25+ goal guy who'll put up 50-60 points. And that's perfectly fine with me. He's someone we can afford to acquire without gutting our prospects/team (vs Ryan, Perry or Iggy) and we can afford to keep him going forward - 3m cap hit this year and next, and his next contract likely wouldn't be much higher (4m max if he kills it here).

Basically he's ideal for our team with what we can afford now and going forward. We don't need allstar wingers. We need someone competent who can capitalize on the chances that our centers create.

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02-04-2013, 01:10 PM
  #92
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No, while I think it's possible he could hit 30/30 with Crosby, I want him because even on a crappy team last year full of injuries and no secondary offense he was a 20g guy (fine, 19g in 69 games), and had 20g+ the two previous years, in addition to the 30 he had previously. At absolute worse case he's TK. Best case he's Neal 0.85. Realistically he's somewhere in between. I would guess he'd be a constant 25+ goal guy who'll put up 50-60 points. And that's perfectly fine with me. He's someone we can afford to acquire without gutting our prospects/team (vs Ryan, Perry or Iggy) and we can afford to keep him going forward - 3m cap hit this year and next, and his next contract likely wouldn't be much higher (4m max if he kills it here).

Basically he's ideal for our team with what we can afford now and going forward. We don't need allstar wingers. We need someone competent who can capitalize on the chances that our centers create.
With a guy like Crosby who is a great passer, Seto wouldn't have an issue potting 30 IMO. He has good speed and enough strength to get to open ice and he has a real good shot. Though don't expect much setup ability from him. Not the greatest hands.

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02-04-2013, 01:11 PM
  #93
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Holy ****, the Pens fans who think Seto isn't worth Olli Maatta are delusional. Seto's struggling because the Wild is a horrible system for him. He thrives in a run-and-gun, fast, offensive system. He'd be putting up 20 easy in any system that fits him better.

Just because he skates for a game on the 4th line doesn't make his value a fourth liner.

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02-04-2013, 01:13 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
He thrives in a run-and-gun, fast, offensive system. He'd be putting up 20 easy in any system that fits him better.
Setoguchi would be a great fit in Chicago or Philly.

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02-04-2013, 01:19 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Holy ****, the Pens fans who think Seto isn't worth Olli Maatta are delusional. Seto's struggling because the Wild is a horrible system for him. He thrives in a run-and-gun, fast, offensive system. He'd be putting up 20 easy in any system that fits him better.

Just because he skates for a game on the 4th line doesn't make his value a fourth liner.
Your comments would hold water if he wasn't on the decline at the time you acquired him.

He goes 31-34-65 one year in SJ; 20-16-36 the next and then 22-19-41 for the same run-and-gun system of the Sharks. What was the reason for the decline? Was he hit by a bus there too?

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02-04-2013, 01:20 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Holy ****, the Pens fans who think Seto isn't worth Olli Maatta are delusional. Seto's struggling because the Wild is a horrible system for him. He thrives in a run-and-gun, fast, offensive system. He'd be putting up 20 easy in any system that fits him better.

Just because he skates for a game on the 4th line doesn't make his value a fourth liner.
Oh look, someone thinks we still mainly play a defensive system.

There is just something wrong with this team and getting them to shoot. Outside of Parise, no one shoots. Seto has 10 shots in 8 games. Something just isn't clicking yet. This is a puck possession team that can't keep the puck. The get out sized and muscled and then can't get it back.

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02-04-2013, 01:27 PM
  #97
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Oh look, someone thinks we still mainly play a defensive system.

There is just something wrong with this team and getting them to shoot. Outside of Parise, no one shoots. Seto has 10 shots in 8 games. Something just isn't clicking yet. This is a puck possession team that can't keep the puck. The get out sized and muscled and then can't get it back.
Please.

He never explicitly said the Wild play a defensive system, but regardless of what he thinks, you can't honestly believe the Wild play a run-and-gun system, do you?

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02-04-2013, 01:32 PM
  #98
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Please.

He never explicitly said the Wild play a defensive system, but regardless of what he thinks, you can't honestly believe the Wild play a run-and-gun system, do you?
I don't know how anyone could honestly see a run and gun style. The talent level isn't there yet. You have four forwards that could play that style and maybe one or two Dmen. Your prospects in the system seem to have talent and skill level to do this up tempo style at some point. Now, really nothing has changed from last year. Parise and Suter alone aren't going to make you change styles in one year. You need more.

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02-04-2013, 01:38 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Your comments would hold water if he wasn't on the decline at the time you acquired him.

He goes 31-34-65 one year in SJ; 20-16-36 the next and then 22-19-41 for the same run-and-gun system of the Sharks. What was the reason for the decline? Was he hit by a bus there too?
Oh look, I'm not a Wild fan.

The reason for his "decline" in San Jose is simple: Linemates. He scored at a 30 goal pace once he was reunited with Thornton and Marleau around January. Previously, he'd been matched with Pavelski, with whom he has little chemistry. Setoguchi isn't going to light the world on fire, but he's the perfect compliment to a lefty playmaker, a real elite complimentary player.

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02-04-2013, 01:40 PM
  #100
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No point in move Setoguchi and then having to add something. He is a 20-goal guy, and it's not like he's played any worst than anybody else on the Wild's middle lines.

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