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All Encompassing Winger Acquisition Thread | Part II: "The Winger Mystery Deepens"

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02-06-2013, 04:01 PM
  #601
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Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
Unless opposing GMs start thinking that Penguins Dmen look better because they're playing on the Penguins. Hard to scout someone and put it in the context of a different situation.
They could look at Strait, who left here and is doing well in New York.

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02-06-2013, 04:32 PM
  #602
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Does not compute.

Yes, GMs have a set value for their player, and shouldn't themselves and their scouts have done their due diligence on the player(s) coming back? Apparently, Nieuwendyk and co. thought that Alex Goligoski was a fair return for James Neal and Matt Niskanen. Shero didn't put on a ski mask, and walk into the Stars' complex with a gun demanding that he get that return. Nieuwendyk and his scouts thought it was fair, so they made the deal.

Unless other GMs think Shero is going to plow down their door and hold them hostage until he gets his desired deal, there's nothing to be afraid of. It's on them to do their due diligence and be confident in the return, yes? They can always say no. If they have to sit and wonder if they're getting fleeced, then they probably shouldn't make the deal, and if they do, they should be canned. Can't fault Shero for others' stupidity.
They aren't going to be canned for deals they didn't do. Tons of deals are nixed over hesitation and doubts. Knowing Shero fleeced a couple of GMs already, once again, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that plays a factor when Shero is dealing with another GM.

He is obviously having dialogue about Kumy with Nonis. Nonis obviously wants to get the best deal for his org, but he knows Shero has a rep for being a very good trading GM. He knows Kumy could go there and blow up with Malkin or Crosby, and it would look like Shero fleeced him if that happens and he doesn't get the right return. The Toronto media would eat that up and turn it into a huge story (how Nonis got fleeced by a shrewd GM like Shero).

If he has doubts, it would be easier for him to nix the deal, find another trading partner or hope Kumy is in fact a 30 goal scorer. The public knows about the deals you do make, and rarely about the ones you don't make.

Nothing is forcing other GMs to deal with Shero.

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02-06-2013, 05:24 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
They aren't going to be canned for deals they didn't do. Tons of deals are nixed over hesitation and doubts. Knowing Shero fleeced a couple of GMs already, once again, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that plays a factor when Shero is dealing with another GM.

He is obviously having dialogue about Kumy with Nonis. Nonis obviously wants to get the best deal for his org, but he knows Shero has a rep for being a very good trading GM. He knows Kumy could go there and blow up with Malkin or Crosby, and it would look like Shero fleeced him if that happens and he doesn't get the right return. The Toronto media would eat that up and turn it into a huge story (how Nonis got fleeced by a shrewd GM like Shero).

If he has doubts, it would be easier for him to nix the deal, find another trading partner or hope Kumy is in fact a 30 goal scorer. The public knows about the deals you do make, and rarely about the ones you don't make.

Nothing is forcing other GMs to deal with Shero.
Fair point.

I just hope Shero is seriously going after him. Contrary to popular belief, he is not a common player in this league. Few can boast his size, skating ability, two way game, board play and offensive upside. He brings alot of what we're lacking on the wing.

Sid's line is looking great in terms of puck possession. They work off of speed. But they could use a finisher.

Geno's line has done very little at ES of late. Geno needs someone who can work the boards and buy him time to make plays, Neal isn't a guy who regularly does that. Kulemin can fill that role better than Kunitz did last year. He's physically stronger. The bonus with Kulemin is that they have proven chemistry and he's a defensive ace who can help the line get out of their own end.

I'll never forget being at a Leafs game last year right up against the glass and seeing both Kunitz and Vitale just bounce off the guy. He's a ****ing tank. Want him on this team.

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02-06-2013, 05:35 PM
  #604
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Kulemin, Seto, Clutterbuck would be a pretty good trading season for Shero, depending on the returns for the other team of course.

Pens get 2 wingers for the top 6 (Kulemin, Seto), and 1 for the bottom 6 (Clutterbuck)

Kunitz-Crosby-Seto
Kulemin-Malkin-Neal
Clutterbuck-Sutter-Dupuis
Cooke-Vitale-Adams
Glass

Knowing Bylsma....

Kunitz-Crosby-Seto
Boychuk-Malkin-Neal
Kulemin-Sutter-Clutterbuck

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02-06-2013, 05:42 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Fair point.

I just hope Shero is seriously going after him. Contrary to popular belief, he is not a common player in this league. Few can boast his size, skating ability, two way game, board play and offensive upside. He brings alot of what we're lacking on the wing.

Sid's line is looking great in terms of puck possession. They work off of speed. But they could use a finisher.

Geno's line has done very little at ES of late. Geno needs someone who can work the boards and buy him time to make plays, Neal isn't a guy who regularly does that. Kulemin can fill that role better than Kunitz did last year. He's physically stronger. The bonus with Kulemin is that they have proven chemistry and he's a defensive ace who can help the line get out of their own end.

I'll never forget being at a Leafs game last year right up against the glass and seeing both Kunitz and Vitale just bounce off the guy. He's a ****ing tank. Want him on this team.
Ya Kumy is a tank that can motor. Like I said, no big man should be able to skate like that. Leaf fans don't want him gone either, so what does that tell you?

I'm sure that Shero is trying to land him, but what incentive does Nonis have to move him? He is under tremendous pressure to make the playoffs. Trading Kumy now for futures hurts the team.

I could only see a deal going down in April if the Leafs are totally out of the playoff picture. Unless Nisky is going the other way (Leafs need help on the backend), I can't see a deal going down anytime soon and who knows when he will be back and healthy.

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02-06-2013, 05:49 PM
  #606
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Ya Kumy is a tank that can motor. Like I said, no big man should be able to skate like that. Leaf fans don't want him gone either, so what does that tell you?

I'm sure that Shero is trying to land him, but what incentive does Nonis have to move him? He is under tremendous pressure to make the playoffs. Trading Kumy now for futures hurts the team.

I could only see a deal going down in April if the Leafs are totally out of the playoff picture. Unless Nisky is going the other way (Leafs need help on the backend), I can't see a deal going down anytime soon and who knows when he will be back and healthy.
I got the vibe in Nonis' recent interviews that they're accepting a rebuild is going to happen. Not a full out tank rebuild, but that they need to be patient and let their talent develop.

Niskanen for Kulemin is fair IMO. Both have another year on their deals. The former regaining his top 4 form and the latter coming off a bad year offensively.

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02-06-2013, 06:12 PM
  #607
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I really wouldn't be comfortable with Sutter going to the Leafs for Kulemin. He's doing well for us and I don't think that represents a good deal for us. Tangradi + 3rd?

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02-06-2013, 06:14 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
I got the vibe in Nonis' recent interviews that they're accepting a rebuild is going to happen. Not a full out tank rebuild, but that they need to be patient and let their talent develop.

Niskanen for Kulemin is fair IMO. Both have another year on their deals. The former regaining his top 4 form and the latter coming off a bad year offensively.
I'd do Niskanen for Kulemin. Niskanen would be Leafs top pairing Dman, guess he would play with Phaneuf, although i dunno what side that guy plays off hand. Gogo for Neal+Kulemin, heh. A 40 and 30 goal scorer.

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02-06-2013, 06:15 PM
  #609
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I really wouldn't be comfortable with Sutter going to the Leafs for Kulemin. He's doing well for us and I don't think that represents a good deal for us. Tangradi + 3rd?
I wouldn't want to do Sutter, but Tangradi and a 3rd is insulting to them most likely.

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02-06-2013, 06:17 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
Kulemin, Seto, Clutterbuck would be a pretty good trading season for Shero, depending on the returns for the other team of course.
how the hell are we getting all 3 of those guys? lol

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02-06-2013, 06:19 PM
  #611
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how the hell are we getting all 3 of those guys? lol
That's up to Shero. I'd guess Niskanen+Maatta for Seto/Clutter, then Kulemin for something.

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02-06-2013, 06:22 PM
  #612
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I got the vibe in Nonis' recent interviews that they're accepting a rebuild is going to happen. Not a full out tank rebuild, but that they need to be patient and let their talent develop.

Niskanen for Kulemin is fair IMO. Both have another year on their deals. The former regaining his top 4 form and the latter coming off a bad year offensively.
I would be down with that, then Shero could make a move for a vet blueliner if need be.

Kumy is more than stats to me. He would help control the boards, cycle the puck well, wear down other teams with his forechecking and be a major help with zone time. He also would be a huge asset for his ability to carry the puck and his creativity.

I don't expect him to produce much more than 20 goals and 50 points, but his other attributes would be so huge for this team come playoff time. It would literally take one game with the Pens for people to see why people are so high on Kumy.

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02-06-2013, 06:23 PM
  #613
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I wouldn't want to do Sutter, but Tangradi and a 3rd is insulting to them most likely.
Kennedy + prospect or pick? Would that likely cut it?

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02-06-2013, 06:25 PM
  #614
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Kennedy + prospect or pick? Would that likely cut it?
They have no need for Kennedy. I think it starts around a 1st.

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02-06-2013, 06:25 PM
  #615
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Kennedy + prospect or pick? Would that likely cut it?
It would have to be a Dman, so likely asking price would be Orpik or Niskanen, we will be keeping Orpik, so it's Niskanen. Perhaps Niskanen+Lovejoy just to get him off this team.

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02-06-2013, 06:26 PM
  #616
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They have no need for Kennedy. I think it starts around a 1st.
I could probably live with a 1st but we'd have to also give them a prospect as well most probably.

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02-06-2013, 06:30 PM
  #617
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I would be down with that, then Shero could make a move for a vet blueliner if need be.

Kumy is more than stats to me. He would help control the boards, cycle the puck well, wear down other teams with his forechecking and be a major help with zone time. He also would be a huge asset for his ability to carry the puck and his creativity.

I don't expect him to produce much more than 20 goals and 50 points, but his other attributes would be so huge for this team come playoff time. It would literally take one game with the Pens for people to see why people are so high on Kumy.
Exactly. I'm a bit weary of this quick strike offense in the playoffs. We need to be able to wear teams down and keep our talent in the offensive zone as much as possible. Kulemin will be huge for us in that regard. Any offensive output over 20 goals is a bonus IMO.

I liked your Hossa lite comparison. The kid's still young and has all the tools to take the next step offensively.

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02-06-2013, 06:31 PM
  #618
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I doubt Kennedy holds much value since he's basically a rental player himself.

I'd imagine Toronto would want at least a 1st for Kulemin but it's hard to tell. Their fans asking prices are through the roof (Sutter or 1st round pick + former 1st round pick like Maatta, Bennett etc.).

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02-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #619
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I doubt Kennedy holds much value since he's basically a rental player himself.

I'd imagine Toronto would want at least a 1st for Kulemin but it's hard to tell. Their fans asking prices are through the roof (Sutter or 1st round pick + former 1st round pick like Maatta, Bennett etc.).
Sutter makes absolutely no sense for them. They need a #1C not a true #3. Unless they plan on moving Bozak somewhere, Sutter is pointless.

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02-06-2013, 06:35 PM
  #620
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I doubt Kennedy holds much value since he's basically a rental player himself.

I'd imagine Toronto would want at least a 1st for Kulemin but it's hard to tell. Their fans asking prices are through the roof (Sutter or 1st round pick + former 1st round pick like Maatta, Bennett etc.).
I wouldn't want him gone if I was a Leafs fan. He's a special player. But if they can get a 1st+, a top 4 D or a high end prospect, you have to at least think about it.

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02-06-2013, 06:38 PM
  #621
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Sutter makes absolutely no sense for them. They need a #1C not a true #3. Unless they plan on moving Bozak somewhere, Sutter is pointless.
And yet that hasn't stopped Leafs fans from demanding Sutter for Kulemin countless times in the threads I've read.

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02-06-2013, 06:39 PM
  #622
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I doubt Kennedy holds much value since he's basically a rental player himself.

I'd imagine Toronto would want at least a 1st for Kulemin but it's hard to tell. Their fans asking prices are through the roof (Sutter or 1st round pick + former 1st round pick like Maatta, Bennett etc.).
Good thing their fans opinions don't matter, like ours don't when Shero fleeces other GM's.

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02-06-2013, 06:40 PM
  #623
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I wouldn't want him gone if I was a Leafs fan. He's a special player. But if they can get a 1st+, a top 4 D or a high end prospect, you have to at least think about it.
I like the kid but the underwhelming production limits what I would trade for him. I wouldn't trade a 1st and a top prospect to get him. I think there are probably more productive players that can be had for a 1st and a top prospect.

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02-06-2013, 06:41 PM
  #624
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And yet that hasn't stopped Leafs fans from demanding Sutter for Kulemin countless times in the threads I've read.
I know, and look, I love Sutter as much as anyone here, but Kadri looks like he's really turning into an impact player, Grabovski just signed a big contract and, no matter what your opinion of him, he's definitely more of an offensive threat than Sutter.

That basically just leaves Sutter vs Bozak. I think Sutter is better, but Bozak is really good at face-offs, is underrated in a lot of ways, and is basically forced to be miscast as a 1st-line center because of Kessel.

So.. yea. Let them say Sutter, unless Shero really wants to do a Kulemin + Bozak for Sutter swap, I just don't see it.

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02-06-2013, 06:41 PM
  #625
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What would you guys say to Harrington + 1st + Kennedy?

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