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All Encompassing Winger Acquisition Thread | Part II: "The Winger Mystery Deepens"

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02-04-2013, 03:46 PM
  #101
IcedCapp
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Originally Posted by kbuck8851 View Post
What are the thoughts on if this could happen or should...

Pens trade:
Kennedy
Tangradi/Jeffrey
2013 2nd Round Pick
2014 Middle Round Pick

Minnesota trade:
Setoguchi
Clutterbuck

Setoguchi had been discussed to death on here so I'll skip that but, adding Clutterbuck would instill some youth and off the wall physicality to our bottom six which is missing for sure. It's time to start replacing some of the aging vets down there before the wheels completely fall off.
Pretty sure the Pens would have to add something more if they were going to get Clutterbuck

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02-04-2013, 03:49 PM
  #102
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So what's the count on the number of times we've tried to throw a pile of crap at Minnesota for a couple of decent NHLers?

People might want to take note of where the other franchise stands before crapping out a proposal. That deal would've made a bit of sense last year (when I assure you something similar was proposed 100x), but now Minnesota is clearly trying to win now. Any team that's looking to get closer to a Cup as opposed to working backwards to rebuild is a no go for these kinds of trades, unless they're looking to dump salary for some reason.

Put it this way: Are we trading roster players for picks and prospects? Of course not, that'd be incredibly stupid.

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02-04-2013, 03:50 PM
  #103
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Value is tough to gauge, but we'd certainly have to deal from defense to land both Seto+Clutter.

Kunitz-Sid-Seto
Clutter-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis

Setoguchi can be resigned over the summer for a decent caphit with his recent production and Clutterbuck is a RFA who fits this team to a T. Great acquisitions to grow with our team.

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Old
02-04-2013, 03:54 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Value is tough to gauge, but we'd certainly have to deal from defense to land both Seto+Clutter.

Kunitz-Sid-Seto
Clutter-Malkin-Neal
Cooke-Sutter-Dupuis

Setoguchi can be resigned over the summer for a decent caphit with his recent production and Clutterbuck is a RFA who fits this team to a T. Great acquisitions to grow with our team.
I'd honestly rather see Boychuk a few more games than put Clutterbuck in the top-6. I think he'd be good on this team, but I'm not sure if I want him to be a top-6er.

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02-04-2013, 03:56 PM
  #105
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Nino could be a really good winger. Right now he's on pace to be the next Rico Fata. At this point I'd leave him alone. Yeah you'd have to pay more later, but I'd rather do that. Absolutely no indication of what he'll become yet.
I don't think we can afford to wait. I want our scouts to find us some talent BEFORE they bust out. It happens everywhere all the time. Maybe it just happened to us with Boychuk. Hopefully, we can do it again.

I don't want Setoguchi, FYI. He has just two assists in eight games, and only has 10 shots on goal in those eight games. Furthermore, he's been in sharp decline for a while now.

If we're talking to Minnesota, I want one of their young forwards: Coyle, Zucker, Larsson. They won't keep them all, since they won't have room for all.

But as far as Niederreiter is concerned, I definitely would want to try to get him now...and not wait for him to score 25 goals. It'll be too late then.

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02-04-2013, 04:00 PM
  #106
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I don't think we can afford to wait. I want our scouts to find us some talent BEFORE they bust out. It happens everywhere all the time. Maybe it just happened to us with Boychuk. Hopefully, we can do it again.

I don't want Setoguchi, FYI. He has just two assists in eight games, and only has 10 shots on goal in those eight games. Furthermore, he's been in sharp decline for a while now.

If we're talking to Minnesota, I want one of their young forwards: Coyle, Zucker, Larsson. They won't keep them all, since they won't have room for all.

But as far as Niederreiter is concerned, I definitely would want to try to get him now...and not wait for him to score 25 goals. It'll be too late then.
I'm just saying the price will be high and he could very well bust. I don't throw that word around like some people but it's a distinct possiblity. Risk/reward I guess.

Josh Yohe said on the radio he's heard Setoguchi is a bad locker room guy. I think he was just talking **** but he seemed convinced.

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02-04-2013, 04:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by kbuck8851 View Post
What are the thoughts on if this could happen or should...

Pens trade:
Kennedy
Tangradi/Jeffrey
2013 2nd Round Pick
2014 Middle Round Pick

Minnesota trade:
Setoguchi
Clutterbuck

Setoguchi had been discussed to death on here so I'll skip that but, adding Clutterbuck would instill some youth and off the wall physicality to our bottom six which is missing for sure. It's time to start replacing some of the aging vets down there before the wheels completely fall off.
Gotta look at any trade from the perspective of the other side and Minny needs help on the blueline. The Wild I believe have around 64m on the cap next season and have some young fwds ready to step in, so I think Seto can be had for picks and prospects. Getting Clutterbuck will take a sweetener, but being a RFA and with the Wild close to next years cap already, I think he might be moved.

If Despres and Bort hold up and Nisky comes back healthy, a fair deal would probably be:

Nisky + 2nd for Seto and Clutterbuck

Nisky will be a boost for their blueline and he is on a sweetheart deal that helps their cap situation next season.

I love Clutterbuck and he and Vitale in the bottom six would be a nightmare for other teams. I'm just not sold on Seto.

Adding a 25 year old Clutterbuck does make the deal tempting though.

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02-04-2013, 04:05 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Gotta look at any trade from the perspective of the other side and Minny needs help on the blueline. The Wild I believe have around 64m on the cap next season and have some young fwds ready to step in, so I think Seto can be had for picks and prospects. Getting Clutterbuck will take a sweetener, but being a RFA and with the Wild close to next years cap already, I think he might be moved.

If Despres and Bort hold up and Nisky comes back healthy, a fair deal would probably be:

Nisky + 2nd for Seto and Clutterbuck

Nisky will be a boost for their blueline and he is on a sweetheart deal that helps their cap situation next season.

I love Clutterbuck and he and Vitale in the bottom six would be a nightmare for other teams. I'm just not sold on Seto.

Adding a 25 year old Clutterbuck does make the deal tempting though.
Agreed. I think Shero would at least be willing to consider Seto. Getting Clutterbuck would spark his attention. I think we're missing a consistent physical presence as much as another sniper.

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02-04-2013, 04:05 PM
  #109
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i personally would not trade despres at this point. I think he is a modern NHL prodigy. He has the perfect combination of size, skill, strength, speed, grit, and intensity. He competes and positively impacts the game in all 3 zones. He is still a bit raw, but I believe in a few years he will be considered a top pair d man, and one many teams would like to have.

My hope is that through lateral trades and waiver work Shero can retool the bottom 6. Particularly the 3rd line. I believe in a series our top 6 can and should win out against other top 6. Our 4th line could be better, but plays a solid game and need to be there for PK. I would like to see our 3rd line revamped, they need to be making a noticeable impact on games. I would be OK moving TK, Cooke, or some combination in order to get a bigger younger player. Someone like Schenn but with less upside, pedigree, and cost. Someone who plays an in your face game and give a team identity.

3rd line of "player x" - Sutter - Bennet/tangradi/kuhn

Commit to that line playing 12-14 minutes a night. let them learn without losing games.

Then we know a bit more about the readiness of Bennet and if needed we can sign a FA this offseason with the available cap.

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Old
02-04-2013, 04:11 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Agreed. I think Shero would at least be willing to consider Seto. Getting Clutterbuck would spark his attention. I think we're missing a consistent physical presence as much as another sniper.
I would also like that physical presence to be a badass that doesn't take **** from anybody and stood up more for our star players. Somebody in the mold of a young Gary Roberts. Of course they will never be even 1/100th the man that Gary Roberts was and still is to this day.


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Old
02-04-2013, 04:13 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by UnderratedBrooks44 View Post
So what's the count on the number of times we've tried to throw a pile of crap at Minnesota for a couple of decent NHLers?

People might want to take note of where the other franchise stands before crapping out a proposal. That deal would've made a bit of sense last year (when I assure you something similar was proposed 100x), but now Minnesota is clearly trying to win now. Any team that's looking to get closer to a Cup as opposed to working backwards to rebuild is a no go for these kinds of trades, unless they're looking to dump salary for some reason.

Put it this way: Are we trading roster players for picks and prospects? Of course not, that'd be incredibly stupid.
Thought Minny needed to get bigger in the bottom 6, Tangradi accomplishes that and will come on the cheap. Minny is looking for a cup? Does it hurt to add a former Cup winner in Kennedy who has been to the Finals twice? Yes he is the whipping boy around here but he can also bring a lot to the table when he is on his game. Isn't next year's draft considered to be incredibly deep? Thus the idea of a 2nd round pick is hardly crap. Minnesota is still in a rebuild, only this time around Parise and Suter. There is no way that any team that missed the playoffs the previous year goes to the next year saying oh yeah we are totally cup contenders now let's act accordingly. That would be horrible mismanagement. Two players does not make a cup contender out of a team that finished 4th in its division the previous year.

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Old
02-04-2013, 04:44 PM
  #112
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Meh, there's something about Seto that doesn't feel right in my guts. Clutterbuck is a different thing. I'd try:

Coyle
Clutterbuck
Falk (cap issues)

for

Niskanen
Dupuis
mid round pick

Kunitz - Crosby - Coyle/Kennedy/Boychuk
Jeffrey/Boychuk/Kennedy - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Clutterbuck/Coyle
Glass - Vitale - Kennedy/Clutterbuck

Orpik - Martin
Despres - Letang
Engelland - Bortuzzo
Falk

Tangradi or Kennedy could be traded later on.

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Old
02-04-2013, 04:53 PM
  #113
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i still think that Bouchard is the guy Minny tries to trade. as soon as he produces enough to assuage concerns about his health, they'll ship him out to make room for Coyle/Zucker. but in the end i really don't know. they have a lot of options when it comes to lineup combos.

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Old
02-04-2013, 04:54 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Muscles4Malkin View Post
Meh, there's something about Seto that doesn't feel right in my guts. Clutterbuck is a different thing. I'd try:

Coyle
Clutterbuck
Falk (cap issues)

for

Niskanen
Dupuis
mid round pick

Kunitz - Crosby - Coyle/Kennedy/Boychuk
Jeffrey/Boychuk/Kennedy - Malkin - Neal
Cooke - Sutter - Clutterbuck/Coyle
Glass - Vitale - Kennedy/Clutterbuck

Orpik - Martin
Despres - Letang
Engelland - Bortuzzo
Falk

Tangradi or Kennedy could be traded later on.
They aren't trading Coyle, and if they were trading Coyle, it would have to include one of the big 2 or 3 on the back end (prospect-wise)

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Old
02-04-2013, 05:19 PM
  #115
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i still think that Bouchard is the guy Minny tries to trade. as soon as he produces enough to assuage concerns about his health, they'll ship him out to make room for Coyle/Zucker. but in the end i really don't know. they have a lot of options when it comes to lineup combos.
I'd take a look at him as well. Adding skill to our top 6 isn't a bad thing... I'd just be worried about his health - especially long term. Probably easier to acquire him than Seto or Cutterbuck due to where he fits long term.

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02-04-2013, 05:26 PM
  #116
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I wouldn't have minded trading for Mike Rupp and plugging him on the 4th line.

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02-04-2013, 05:38 PM
  #117
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I wouldn't have minded trading for Mike Rupp and plugging him on the 4th line.
Eh I think Rupp is almost done. He's slower than ever, his offense has dried up and he now loses every fight. Only thing he still has is size and being a good locker room guy. Not an enticing package at 1.5 million cap hit for this season and next. Of course Sather once again unloads a bad signing on someone else.

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02-04-2013, 05:39 PM
  #118
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I wouldn't have minded trading for Mike Rupp and plugging him on the 4th line.
I had the same thoughts when I saw he was traded. Rupp is a guy you can throw out next to Sid or Geno in the last 10 minutes of a blow out to keep the peace without him being totally useless at hockey.

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02-04-2013, 05:44 PM
  #119
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I had the same thoughts when I saw he was traded. Rupp is a guy you can throw out next to Sid or Geno in the last 10 minutes of a blow out to keep the peace without him being totally useless at hockey.
You want $1.2M of Mike Rupp on the 4th line? Now I've heard everything.

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02-04-2013, 05:47 PM
  #120
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I want Mike Rupp for those 7-8 mins a game where he hits the ice like a bat out of hell and runs dudes through the boards. Granted, I haven't seen a ton of him, aside from what the Pens play the Rags, but I will be the first to admit, I completely underrated what he brought to the team.

We need one of those lines that can hit the ice and change the course of a game without even scoring a goal. I expected a **** ton more of that **** stirring quality from Tanner Glass, but I haven't seen a lot of it, really. He hits, and he's physical, but it's definitely more of a controlled physicality where Rupp would just go out there and bowl guys over.

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02-04-2013, 05:47 PM
  #121
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Eh I think Rupp is almost done. He's slower than ever, his offense has dried up and he now loses every fight. Only thing he still has is size and being a good locker room guy. Not an enticing package at 1.5 million cap hit for this season and next. Of course Sather once again unloads a bad signing on someone else.
Yeah, Rangers fans seem to think Rupp is done. I'd have to defer to them since I haven't paid much attention to him since he left.

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02-04-2013, 05:49 PM
  #122
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I want Mike Rupp for those 7-8 mins a game where he hits the ice like a bat out of hell and runs dudes through the boards. Granted, I haven't seen a ton of him, aside from what the Pens play the Rags, but I will be the first to admit, I completely underrated what he brought to the team.

We need one of those lines that can hit the ice and change the course of a game without even scoring a goal. I expected a **** ton more of that **** stirring quality from Tanner Glass, but I haven't seen a lot of it, really. He hits, and he's physical, but it's definitely more of a controlled physicality where Rupp would just go out there and bowl guys over.
I feel like our 4th line does that... No ****-stirrers, but very physical.

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02-04-2013, 05:54 PM
  #123
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Our 4th line is okay. All 3 guys (Glass, Vitale, Adams) seem to be smart defensive players that can pk. The line isn't very nasty or physically imposing though imo.

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02-04-2013, 05:56 PM
  #124
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Our 4th line is okay. All 3 guys (Glass, Vitale, Adams) seem to be smart defensive players that can pk. The line isn't very nasty or physically imposing though imo.
Right, and it should be. I think a 4th line should be a line you go to when your team is in a lull. You throw them out there, they make heads roll, and then you sit them down again. Or, if they are good enough skaters, you put them against guys like Mike Richards and Scott Hartnell where they easily get under their skin, and you then take them off their game.

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02-04-2013, 05:56 PM
  #125
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Meh, there's something about Seto that doesn't feel right in my guts. Clutterbuck is a different thing. I'd try:

Coyle
Clutterbuck
Falk (cap issues)

for

Niskanen
Dupuis
mid round pick

This deal is overly complicated. The only piece we'd benefit from in the immediate term is Clutterbuck. Falk is not useful to us given our defensive depth and his inexperience. And the fact that even if you move Niskanen there's still no room for him. Coyle is a natural C (unless someone knows he's switched to wing recently) and would likely cost more than Dupuis and a mid-round pick if his upside is what people say it is.

Clutterbuck would be a nice pick-up to make our 3rd line unbearable to play against in the playoffs. He would probably cost a Niskanen (roughly). Other major factor everyone seems to ignore with MN: they're getting better and if they're in the playoff hunt they're likely to go rental, not sell off important assets. Although Seto might be wearing out his welcome, they don't have enough of any at any position to do that.

Teams like EDM OTOH

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=415205 (called up Magnus P today -- probably to give teams a look)

or STL... they could be in a position to sell off a skilled winger and not be any worse for wear, depending on who it is / who they get.


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