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Old
02-17-2013, 02:26 PM
  #1
Dutch Frost
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Assistant GM's ready for next step

Great ESPN article on Assistant GM's ready to take the next step. Ron Hextall is at #2 (wouldnt be the first former Islander goalie to be a gm)

I doubt Wang ever gets rid of Snow because that would admit he was wrong but if they lose again this year then here are some other options that we can only hope that a new owner or maybe Wang would make


http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...take-next-step

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02-17-2013, 02:34 PM
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DarkHorse
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I don't think you can judge Snow until he gets to work with a real budget. To this point, he's proven himself to be a shrewd evaluator of low-risk talent and a master of contract negotiation (as his deals with AMac, Frans, JT, Grabner and Martin show.)

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02-17-2013, 02:46 PM
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Dutch Frost
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkHorse View Post
I don't think you can judge Snow until he gets to work with a real budget. To this point, he's proven himself to be a shrewd evaluator of low-risk talent and a master of contract negotiation (as his deals with AMac, Frans, JT, Grabner and Martin show.)
The same argument was said with Milbury when he was with Milstein and Gluckerstein that he had no real budget to work with. Its time for the Islanders to take the next step and grab people with experience

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02-17-2013, 02:52 PM
  #4
DarkHorse
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
The same argument was said with Milbury when he was with Milstein and Gluckerstein that he had no real budget to work with. Its time for the Islanders to take the next step and grab people with experience
Except that Milbury was consistently destroyed in trades and never made a great signing. Snow has been cautious, trading draft picks for picks or players, and doing pretty well at that (though I think the De Haan trade was a mistake.)

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02-17-2013, 03:07 PM
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Disgraced Cosmonaut
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i think the OP is right about one thing: Wang can't go back b/c it'd mean he'd have to admit he was wrong to let the experienced GM he had go.

but even if Wang fired Snow, repainting this car won't fix the engine and make it run.
we need Wang to change his cheap mentality before we worry about the GM...
and we're not getting this day's Al Arbour as long as that cheap mentality is in place. When Smith walked to save face, Wang lost.

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02-17-2013, 03:09 PM
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Disgraced Cosmonaut
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Originally Posted by DarkHorse View Post
Except that Milbury was consistently destroyed in trades and never made a great signing. Snow has been cautious, trading draft picks for picks or players, and doing pretty well at that (though I think the De Haan trade was a mistake.)
milbury was the worst gm. he was just not good. but even he didn't want to give Yashin a 10 year deal (he had a 5 on the table).
as was the move related to Bailey.

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02-17-2013, 03:28 PM
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periferal
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
The same argument was said with Milbury when he was with Milstein and Gluckerstein that he had no real budget to work with. Its time for the Islanders to take the next step and grab people with experience

Are you kidding me?!??!?! I mean are to seriously kidding me??!!!?!?!?!!

Both Milbury and Snow have had limited budgets, but that's where the comparison ends. Besides him having the worst resume for a GM in NHL history, Milbury once traded Luongo and Olli Jokinen for Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha (and that was so he could draft DP over Gaborik or Heatley).

I am far from a full supporter of Snow, but if I had to choose who should be GM of this team if the budget was higher, then that's not a decision. If you have to debate that then you must be a rangers fan.

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02-17-2013, 03:34 PM
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I cant think of one bad trade that snow made....

MadMike traded the franchise for chicken scratch

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02-17-2013, 03:41 PM
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Dutch Frost
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
Are you kidding me?!??!?! I mean are to seriously kidding me??!!!?!?!?!!

Both Milbury and Snow have had limited budgets, but that's where the comparison ends. Besides him having the worst resume for a GM in NHL history, Milbury once traded Luongo and Olli Jokinen for Mark Parrish and Oleg Kvasha (and that was so he could draft DP over Gaborik or Heatley).

I am far from a full supporter of Snow, but if I had to choose who should be GM of this team if the budget was higher, then that's not a decision. If you have to debate that then you must be a rangers fan.
Your missing the point, Milbury made those trades when Charles Wang was the GM not when Gluck and Millstein ran the club. He was forced to strip down the team and traded Palffy for Olli Jokinen.

His moves you mentioned above where once Wang became GM. I am simply stating that Garth Snow is not a good GM. Where Milbury was trigger happy, Garth proves he cant make a single trade to bolster the 4th line. Outside of Smyth what the hell else has he done to help this team DURING the season. Other then dumping guys for draft picks?

Yeah he finds ways to cheat the system and gets luck with waiver wire pick ups but overall there are tons of other people out there who will soon be available with better experience and if Wang desires to go the professional route those are his options.

I know he wont because he will be proved wrong that his group philosophy was wrong and he is an obsessive control freak and wont be happy with just being the guy who signs checks.

If wang would not mess with team affairs and let a competent crew run the club there would be less hatred for him. If he just said here is your 50 million dollar budget now go out there and win a cup then we would never blame him. We would demand the GM be fired.

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02-17-2013, 04:09 PM
  #10
periferal
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Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
Your missing the point, Milbury made those trades when Charles Wang was the GM not when Gluck and Millstein ran the club. He was forced to strip down the team and traded Palffy for Olli Jokinen.

His moves you mentioned above where once Wang became GM. I am simply stating that Garth Snow is not a good GM. Where Milbury was trigger happy, Garth proves he cant make a single trade to bolster the 4th line. Outside of Smyth what the hell else has he done to help this team DURING the season. Other then dumping guys for draft picks?

Yeah he finds ways to cheat the system and gets luck with waiver wire pick ups but overall there are tons of other people out there who will soon be available with better experience and if Wang desires to go the professional route those are his options.

I know he wont because he will be proved wrong that his group philosophy was wrong and he is an obsessive control freak and wont be happy with just being the guy who signs checks.

If wang would not mess with team affairs and let a competent crew run the club there would be less hatred for him. If he just said here is your 50 million dollar budget now go out there and win a cup then we would never blame him. We would demand the GM be fired.

And if there were no guns, there'd be no shootings...

...but there are guns. And Wang DOES mess with team affairs, imposes a spending budget, and HIRED SNOW.

Blaming Snow for not bringing on NHL ready talent mid-season who who put the team OVER WANGS BUDGET is like blaming an Air Force pilot for carrying out his orders.

You've got your spotlight shining on the wrong target my friend (and I'm not sure that it's bright enough even if you did).

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02-17-2013, 05:22 PM
  #11
Dutch Frost
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Originally Posted by periferal View Post
And if there were no guns, there'd be no shootings...

...but there are guns. And Wang DOES mess with team affairs, imposes a spending budget, and HIRED SNOW.

Blaming Snow for not bringing on NHL ready talent mid-season who who put the team OVER WANGS BUDGET is like blaming an Air Force pilot for carrying out his orders.

You've got your spotlight shining on the wrong target my friend (and I'm not sure that it's bright enough even if you did).
Once again your missing the point of my post. I am not here to Blame Snow.. I am simply posting a great article of the top 5 assistant GM's that contracts are up. If the Isles have another bottom 5 finish AGAIN should Garth be fired. How much mediocrity can Wang accept?

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02-17-2013, 05:42 PM
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Does this team even employ an assistant GM? Or does Chuck figure Garth is his assistant?

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02-17-2013, 06:25 PM
  #13
crashthenet
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Originally Posted by 12Dog View Post
Does this team even employ an assistant GM? Or does Chuck figure Garth is his assistant?
Weight is assistant to the GM

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02-17-2013, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkHorse View Post
Except that Milbury was consistently destroyed in trades and never made a great signing. Snow has been cautious, trading draft picks for picks or players, and doing pretty well at that (though I think the De Haan trade was a mistake.)

Don't get me wrong-MM had an AWFUL start. But honestly once he had free reign after Chuck first took over the team-he wasn't half bad.

He made a few trades (mainly later in his career that get overshadowed from the awful ones earlier):


-Peca trade (Peca getting injured and never regaining his form wasn't Milbury's fault at all)
-Aucoin trade
-Hamrlik trade
-J. Blake trade

-Acquired Osgood
-Drafted DP (again injuries aren't his fault-DP was a damn good for a couple years before injuries ruined his career)
-Hired Laviolette


People blame Wang-and I get it-I really do. But let's take a look at Milbury-he did A LOT more than Snow ever did under Wang.


Milbury wasn't as bad as many people make him out to be (at least from the 2000s-on). We were all disappointed because the team would get destroyed in the 1st round...now we can't even finish outside of the bottom 5!

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:02 PM
  #15
DarkHorse
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Originally Posted by crashthenet View Post
Weight is assistant to the GM
http://islanders.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=43584

Weight is Senior Advisor to the GM. Kerry Gwydir is assistant to the GM.

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Old
02-17-2013, 08:47 PM
  #16
A Pointed Stick
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Who is kidding who? Snow is the assistant GM. Wang approves all moves and even does some on his lonesome, logic be damned.

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02-17-2013, 09:29 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
How much mediocrity can Wang accept?
You don't get it. Wang is the orchestrator of the mediocrity.

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02-17-2013, 11:33 PM
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periferal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
Once again your missing the point of my post. I am not here to Blame Snow.. I am simply posting a great article of the top 5 assistant GM's that contracts are up. If the Isles have another bottom 5 finish AGAIN should Garth be fired.
I honestly thinking you're missing the point of my post as evidenced by...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
How much mediocrity can Wang accept?
Well it seems that wang accepts himself so I'd say "infinite mediocrity."

You may not be here to blame Snow, but you should be blaming wang. You seem to think that if Snow was fired and replaced by one of your top 5 assistant GM's that things would improve. Like I said in an earlier post...You're shining your spotlight on the wrong problem.

wang is the problem. Period. As long as he is owner of the Islanders, any firing he makes is simply the same as cutting off a lizard's tail....Nothing will change in terms of wins or losses.

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02-17-2013, 11:52 PM
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periferal
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Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Don't get me wrong-MM had an AWFUL start. But honestly once he had free reign after Chuck first took over the team-he wasn't half bad.

He made a few trades (mainly later in his career that get overshadowed from the awful ones earlier):

-Peca trade (Peca getting injured and never regaining his form wasn't Milbury's fault at all)
-Aucoin trade
-Hamrlik trade
-J. Blake trade

-Acquired Osgood
-Drafted DP (again injuries aren't his fault-DP was a damn good for a couple years before injuries ruined his career)
-Hired Laviolette

People blame Wang-and I get it-I really do. But let's take a look at Milbury-he did A LOT more than Snow ever did under Wang.

Milbury wasn't as bad as many people make him out to be (at least from the 2000s-on). We were all disappointed because the team would get destroyed in the 1st round...now we can't even finish outside of the bottom 5!
And if Milbury simply drafted and NEVER MADE A TRADE the Isles would have had a team of the following players in their prime...


Palffy
Spezza
Chara
Luongo
Gaborik/Heatley
McCabe
Jokinen
Dumont
Redden
Connolly
Bertuzzi
Brewer
Lukowich
Rupp
Parise (Oh wait...Milbury took Robert Nilsson over him. My bad.)


That, my friend, is a Stanley Cup contender (even without Parise).

And yet your arguments of Milbury doing a good job are that he dealt for Hamerlik, Blake, Aucoin, and drafted DP (which he traded Luongo & Jokinen to do, but you "can't control injuries")? Is that seriously your argument FOR Milbury...?

Maybe the thing to do is NOT trade and simply just let your prospects develop. Now if you want me to argue how poorly this current front office is developing their players that is fair, but arguing for Milbury as even a decent GM is just not based in fact.

I mean Milbury hasn't had a sniff of a front office job since *leaving* the Isles. Even the horrid Columbus Blue Jackets didn't want to touch him. Same with Neil Smith, Ted Nolan, & Jack Capuano/Garth Snow once they're released.

How many more inept "yes men" is wang going to run through Islanderland before all of our fanbase wakes up to the fact that wang is the problem here. Everyone else is just a symptom of the problem.

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02-18-2013, 12:13 AM
  #20
Marlo Stanfield
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Not trying to defend this one Milbury trade but....

At the time that Yashin trade was semi necessary. You needed to get fans into the seats and get an impact player and he did that. Losing Spezza was a given at that time but let's not forget, Chara wasn't the Chara he is today. No one would've thought the lumbering #4 defenseman would turn into a perennial Norris candidate and absolute beast of a player.

That trade was the early version of Burke acquiring Kessel in a sense. Did they both end up giving a lot in the long term? Yes. But do they regret it? Debatable.

As for mostly every other Milbury trade? Yeah, he basically threw us up ****'s creek with them.

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02-18-2013, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Don't get me wrong-MM had an AWFUL start. But honestly once he had free reign after Chuck first took over the team-he wasn't half bad.

He made a few trades (mainly later in his career that get overshadowed from the awful ones earlier):


-Peca trade (Peca getting injured and never regaining his form wasn't Milbury's fault at all)
-Aucoin trade
-Hamrlik trade
-J. Blake trade

-Acquired Osgood
-Drafted DP (again injuries aren't his fault-DP was a damn good for a couple years before injuries ruined his career)
-Hired Laviolette


People blame Wang-and I get it-I really do. But let's take a look at Milbury-he did A LOT more than Snow ever did under Wang.


Milbury wasn't as bad as many people make him out to be (at least from the 2000s-on). We were all disappointed because the team would get destroyed in the 1st round...now we can't even finish outside of the bottom 5!
Never thought I would see the day MM was defended as a good GM....the world truly is coming to end.

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02-18-2013, 05:49 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Frost View Post
Its time for the Islanders to take the next step and grab people with experience
But all of these guys have less GM experience than Snow?

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02-18-2013, 07:03 AM
  #23
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Milbury had no plan. Milbury was impetuous. Milbury had tunnel vision. Milbury overpaid when dealing for established players.

If Milbury were Isles GM in 2009, are you 100% confident he would've taken JT #1?

If Milbury made the deal to get Ryan Smyth, do you think he would've traded assets that turned out to be worth exactly nothing, like Snow did?

Whatever you think about Snow, please don't compare him to Milbury. Snow is Sam freakin' Pollack by comparison.

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02-18-2013, 11:09 AM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgraced Cosmonaut View Post
When Smith walked to save face, Wang lost.
Smith is no better than Milbury. In 1994, when Rangers won, all the trades at the deadline were made because Keenan told him to make them. All Smith's other picks and deals were garbage.

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02-18-2013, 12:54 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredStreit View Post
Don't get me wrong-MM had an AWFUL start. But honestly once he had free reign after Chuck first took over the team-he wasn't half bad.

He made a few trades (mainly later in his career that get overshadowed from the awful ones earlier):


-Peca trade (Peca getting injured and never regaining his form wasn't Milbury's fault at all)
-Aucoin trade
-Hamrlik trade
-J. Blake trade

-Acquired Osgood
-Drafted DP (again injuries aren't his fault-DP was a damn good for a couple years before injuries ruined his career)
-Hired Laviolette


People blame Wang-and I get it-I really do. But let's take a look at Milbury-he did A LOT more than Snow ever did under Wang.


Milbury wasn't as bad as many people make him out to be (at least from the 2000s-on). We were all disappointed because the team would get destroyed in the 1st round...now we can't even finish outside of the bottom 5!
Am I in a parallel universe? Ill admit that milbury did make some good moves, however, any good moves do not make up for his bad ones. He has to be one of the worst GMs in the history of the nhl. Anybody giving him praise is either not remembering correctly, or is too young

Rewind to the end of the 2000-2001 season, we just missed the playoffs for the 7th (8th?) Year in a row. Our young guys seemed like they would never come thru, not unlike now

At the 2001 draft, milbury makes the yashin and peca moves and we were all estatic as a fan base.

The 01-02 team was really good, and we thought it was all up from there, but what we ended up with was a fringe playoff team till the lockout.

If we stayed the course, we may have missed the playoffs for 10 years straight, but the team would have been a cup contender by the 05-06 season, and even though we woulda missed the playoffs for a possible 10 yrs, a cup contender would have been so much more rewarding than what we ended up with.

Fastfoward to now, we are in an almost identical position as we were back than, except we have a gm who is willing to let the talent develop. We all want this team to b successful in the worst way, but let's not b shortsighted, these things take time, sometimes a LOT of time, but if that means this team will eventually b a contender, ill take that anyday

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