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Old
02-05-2013, 10:45 AM
  #26
flyershockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
YOU don't want them. Big difference. I'm sure if Holmgren could get his hands on Phaneuf he would be all over it. Kessel, I don't really see the need for the flyers.

But the trade I proposed is fair IMO, leaves Phillys core alone, except Couts, gives them a 25+min a night D, and a 30 goal sniper. Could push them over the edge, I really don't think you guys need to build through the draft just because a ****** start to the season,you have a bunch of youth that are already producing. Although I don't get around to watch the flyers a lot so I could be wrong.

I can't really blame you guys for not being too keen on trading for a 12 million dollar pair that has something llike 5 points and a -9 though.
Actually, Kessel would fill a need better than Phaneuf would. The Flyers need a first line sniper to play with Giroux instead of relying on Hartnell/Simmonds to match their career highs from last year. That need has already led to speculation about the Flyers throwing a huge offer at Perry in the offseason.

I'm just not sold on Phaneuf being able to lead a defense night in and night out. The Flyers only need on defense is a puck-moving number one defenseman. Once again, Phaneuf isn't terrible, but I'm not sure the Flyers would want him at that price-tag, and not in the role that would be forced on him at that price.

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02-05-2013, 10:45 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Well that's what it'd take.

Couts, Voracek FOR Kessel

Read, Laughton, 1st FOR Phaneuf

I'd say its close to fair value, even as a leaf fan I'm a little hesitant on pulling the trigger. It also doesn't need to be Briere. Just some salary.
I guess there is the issue. The Kessel one is close to what Boston paid. Too much
In NO way is Phaneuf worth 2 1st and Read...who is worth a mid-late 1st himself


Last edited by Tripod: 02-05-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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Old
02-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
YOU don't want them. Big difference. I'm sure if Holmgren could get his hands on Phaneuf he would be all over it. Kessel, I don't really see the need for the flyers.

But the trade I proposed is fair IMO, leaves Phillys core alone, except Couts, gives them a 25+min a night D, and a 30 goal sniper. Could push them over the edge, I really don't think you guys need to build through the draft just because a ****** start to the season,you have a bunch of youth that are already producing. Although I don't get around to watch the flyers a lot so I could be wrong.

I can't really blame you guys for not being too keen on trading for a 12 million dollar pair that has something llike 5 points and a -9 though.
Not really. We have a good young core that will continue to get better, and even if we miss the playoffs, I'm not going to be too hurt over it. A lot of our roster is struggling this year. That could be do to a number of things.

-Giroux was just named captain, and is trying to do too much, and thus making some pretty dumb plays as a result. He'll come around, he always does, but he's the type of player that needs someone to be on his level of hockey sense to be the most effective, and unfortunately the player on our team he has the most chemistry with is out for 4-6 weeks. Tye McGinn and a Briere, who can't win anything resembling a puck battle are far from the ideal wingers for g.

- couturier is still showing his vast potential, but his sophomore slump is pretty obvious. He's making some mistakes and he's pressing too hard on offense.

-Voracek has been disappointing

-B.Schenn has been disappointing

-Read has been great some nights and awful others

-Simmonds was playing his heart out until he got hurt. He's not the most skilled player and he's not great defensively, but he gives you 110% every night, every shift. Now he's out ~4 weeks.

That's our entire young core struggling. This team has great potential, but we have to remember that they're young.

If we're out of the playoff race by the deadline, I really wouldn't be surprised to see them move Timonen and perhaps even Briere for more 1st round picks to add to our young core.

Kessel and Phaneuf are great players, but it's simple not worth sacrificing our young core for, when we could just wait and see what we can get in the draft and what these young guys can turn into.

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Old
02-05-2013, 12:07 PM
  #29
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Fair enough guys. I didn't know that scoring wingers were a need in Philly, I've always thought the flyers forward core were one of the best in the league so I just assumed that defense was a primary need. Obviously it still is but I can't blame you guys for not wanting to pay a premium for Dion, like you guys said relying on Phaneuf to be your main number 1D isn't the best idea, especially when you take into consideration the premium TO would be asking for to move him which is totally understandable, if we didn't have Phaneuf our defense-core would be easily the softest in the league.

Although I'd have to disagree with the guy who said Couts and Voracek are the equivalent to the previous Kessel deal, I'd take Seguin over Couts and Hamilton over Voracek ten times out of ten, then adding in Knight I believe the deal I proposed isn't anywhere close to value to the infamous Kessel deal.

You guys said you needed a pmd though which Toronto has an abundance of. Would you guys be interested in Liles? Would come fairly cheap, maybe a 2nd rrounder if TO is in the outside looking in by the deadline.

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02-05-2013, 12:24 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Fair enough guys. I didn't know that scoring wingers were a need in Philly, I've always thought the flyers forward core were one of the best in the league so I just assumed that defense was a primary need. Obviously it still is but I can't blame you guys for not wanting to pay a premium for Dion, like you guys said relying on Phaneuf to be your main number 1D isn't the best idea, especially when you take into consideration the premium TO would be asking for to move him which is totally understandable, if we didn't have Phaneuf our defense-core would be easily the softest in the league.

Although I'd have to disagree with the guy who said Couts and Voracek are the equivalent to the previous Kessel deal, I'd take Seguin over Couts and Hamilton over Voracek ten times out of ten, then adding in Knight I believe the deal I proposed isn't anywhere close to value to the infamous Kessel deal.

You guys said you needed a pmd though which Toronto has an abundance of. Would you guys be interested in Liles? Would come fairly cheap, maybe a 2nd rrounder if TO is in the outside looking in by the deadline.
Our scoring depth is that bad, it's just young and still developing to the NHL game. The offense was obviously very good last year, but almost every Flyers fan will tell you that the rookies greatly overachieved. It was also combined with Simmonds, Hartnell, Giroux, and Talbot all having career years. But, Kessel is also to kind of guy that will get the best out of Giroux.

Liles wouldn't make the impact that the Flyers need. They need a young potential number one defenseman that can grow with the other young guys on the roster. Those guys are obviously very hard to come by.

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02-05-2013, 12:39 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Don't see why the Flyers would be after Kessel, but I could see them being in on Phaneuf if he was available. I imagine any deal would start with Couturier.
I'd be willing to do something like that.

Phaneuf + Bozak

FOR

Couturier +?

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02-05-2013, 01:12 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hennig View Post
Fair enough guys. I didn't know that scoring wingers were a need in Philly, I've always thought the flyers forward core were one of the best in the league so I just assumed that defense was a primary need. Obviously it still is but I can't blame you guys for not wanting to pay a premium for Dion, like you guys said relying on Phaneuf to be your main number 1D isn't the best idea, especially when you take into consideration the premium TO would be asking for to move him which is totally understandable, if we didn't have Phaneuf our defense-core would be easily the softest in the league.

Although I'd have to disagree with the guy who said Couts and Voracek are the equivalent to the previous Kessel deal, I'd take Seguin over Couts and Hamilton over Voracek ten times out of ten, then adding in Knight I believe the deal I proposed isn't anywhere close to value to the infamous Kessel deal.

You guys said you needed a pmd though which Toronto has an abundance of. Would you guys be interested in Liles? Would come fairly cheap, maybe a 2nd rounder if TO is in the outside looking in by the deadline.
I was using the Leafs fan logic. They all have said "it was Phil for 2 1st rounders and a 2nd. If we knew the picks would be so high, that deal would not have been done"
Well, Voracek and Couts were selected #7 and #8 respectively. So both high picks.

And I said that the Tor-Bos deal was on overpayment. And for 1.5 years of Phil, this would be for Philly too. Because this does not put Philly over the edge. It merely gives them a bandaid to try and make the playoffs. If it was for Phil for 5 more years at the same salary he makes now, I would do this 2-1 deal(not Dion).

I would not trade a 1st, Laughton(1st) and Read(who could get a 1st) for Dion.

And then we "throw in Briere" for salary as well. Bad deal for Philly. Dion is just so overpaid for what he brings. I would rather Philly trade all the pieces for a REAL #1, or do a smaller deal for a D man with #1 potential.

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02-05-2013, 02:56 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
I was using the Leafs fan logic. They all have said "it was Phil for 2 1st rounders and a 2nd. If we knew the picks would be so high, that deal would not have been done"
Well, Voracek and Couts were selected #7 and #8 respectively. So both high picks.

And I said that the Tor-Bos deal was on overpayment. And for 1.5 years of Phil, this would be for Philly too. Because this does not put Philly over the edge. It merely gives them a bandaid to try and make the playoffs. If it was for Phil for 5 more years at the same salary he makes now, I would do this 2-1 deal(not Dion).

I would not trade a 1st, Laughton(1st) and Read(who could get a 1st) for Dion.

And then we "throw in Briere" for salary as well. Bad deal for Philly. Dion is just so overpaid for what he brings. I would rather Philly trade all the pieces for a REAL #1, or do a smaller deal for a D man with #1 potential.
I disagree about Matt Read being able to fetch a 1st, although it is debatable I suppose. I think you're underrating Phaneuf, I realize he gets **** on hf like their is no tomorrow. But most of it is unwarranted, yes he makes mistakes, but so does every other defenseman in the league.
He is defensively solid, rocket of a shot, hits like a train, and can even lead the rush. He is overpaid, but not by alot, I'd say at most he's a million overpaid.

But of course, its always nice to read people who think Phaneuf sucks defensively, its a great/easy way to see those who actually watch Dion, and those who just takes the consensus on HF and reiterates it into their own words.

I probably wouldnt trade Phaneuf for Read, Laughton, and your 1st. Unless your 1st is lottery pick(<14) position which I doubt it will be. If Couts and Voracek were coming over for Phil then maybe. But just Phaneuf for 2 late 1sts and read isn't very appealing, especially considering we would be looking to trade for a number one defenseman it doesn't make any sense for the leafs to trade Phaneuf unless for an overpayment. Which that is not IMO.


Last edited by Hennig: 02-05-2013 at 03:11 PM.
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Old
02-05-2013, 05:36 PM
  #34
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2 Schenns and a 1st should do
would also help balance the cap hit a bit


Last edited by ginovegas: 02-05-2013 at 05:46 PM.
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Old
02-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #35
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Couturier, Simmonds and a 1st.

Edit:
Slight overpayement by the Flyers because of Simmonds over Phaneuf and his contract.

Couturier and a 1st < Kessel ( Considering I wouldn't have done Couturier and a 1st for Subban. Kessel imo has more value than Subban so...)

Simmonds >> Phaneuf


Last edited by JayKing: 02-05-2013 at 05:50 PM.
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