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The Clergy Files

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Old
02-05-2013, 12:14 AM
  #1
Rizer
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The Clergy Files

The Archdioceses of Los Angeles released "some" of the files recently pertaining to the catholic church covering up sex abuse as a matter of policy for over 30 years. Of course, they haven't released all the files (as if it could possibly maim their non-existent image anymore) and have been accused of hiding even more damning evidence.

Regardless, this is a must read, but not for the weak of stomach.

http://clergyfiles.la-archdiocese.org/listing.html

If any of you are "catholic" and think your church is a force for good in the world, take another look. Of course you will justify it, like everything else, but for the rest of us this is proof positive of what what we have always known.

Again, if you have a weak stomach or aren't partial to reading about how priests, arch bishops and members of the vatican don't give a single flying F about their priests admitting to ****** young children (even babies) brutally, then don't bother clicking the link.

Discuss.

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02-05-2013, 12:42 AM
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So far, my favourite is Peter Garcia, who the church knew was ****ing young boys and decided to turn him into the police and make him pay for his disgusting crime of child ****.

Oh wait, no. They covered it up and decided to give him... BIRTH CONTROL! To "control" his urges to **** young boys while they moved him to another church, in absence of therapy, where he might have to disclose his problem and thus be turned into the police.

Let's medicate him 'in house' and just ship him off to another church!

If you don't laugh at this **** you cry.

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Old
02-13-2013, 01:36 PM
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Crumblin Erb Brooks
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Has anyone seen the new HBO doc Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence/House of God?

It follows a specific story of a priest that was the head of a live-in Catholic school for the deaf and ***** 100-200 students in his time there. It appeared to be known to both those in the church and in diocese that he was doing these things, but little was done to stop him. It also implicates the (former) Pope in the coverup of many cases, as he was the head of the department that was apparently taking care of these issues. The most powerful scene came at the end when it was a room of deaf adults that the priest molested all together sharing their stories, pretty **** up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/us...anted=all&_r=0

It was a real awkward time going to catholic school in the early 2000s when cases were popping up everywhere in St. Louis. Priests were accused both from by grade school and high school of molestation. One was convicted, the other appeared to be false. Catholicism is dying, and these lawsuits are bankrupting dioceses.

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02-13-2013, 02:09 PM
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The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee.../mean-men.html

Gym teachers on the other hand....

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02-13-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee.../mean-men.html

Gym teachers on the other hand....
Except 'everyone else' doesn't typically have the backing of one of the most powerful entities on the planet to help them avoid justice.

It's not just the molestation. It's the institutionalized coverup and the lengths the Church went to in order to avoid having those priests face criminal charges that comprise the issue.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:19 PM
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Has anyone seen the new HBO doc Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence/House of God?
No, but I'll have to see it.

I've seen "Deliver Us From Evil", which is a similar story of how the church covered up the child ***** of one priest for decades, even though he begged them for help and not to be around children.

At the end a few of his victims and a priest from NY go to the vatican to ask the pope why he covered it up (or at least had knowledge of it and did nothing) and are promptly thrown out of the city and ex-communicated.

Standard policy, along with child molestation, I suppose.

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Catholicism is dying, and these lawsuits are bankrupting dioceses.
Although more people are turning to common sense rather than a 3000 year old book written by bronze aged barbarians, I don't think the church is going to run out of money anytime soon. Not as long as the remaining billions of faithful keep passing that collection plate, so their money can go to fund the catholic defence fund and dole out billions of dollars to their victims.

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The priesthood is being cast as the refuge of pederasts. In fact, priests seem to abuse children at the same rate as everyone else..
I think the issue here is that everyone else doesn't cover it up as a matter of policy, nor promote it happening again and again.

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02-13-2013, 02:21 PM
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Catholicism is dying, and these lawsuits are bankrupting dioceses.
Good.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:33 PM
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Although more people are turning to common sense rather than a 3000 year old book written by bronze aged barbarians, I don't think the church is going to run out of money anytime soon. Not as long as the remaining billions of faithful keep passing that collection plate, so their money can go to fund the catholic defence fund and dole out billions of dollars to their victims.
Yeah, but there is a difference between the Vatican and regional dioceses. To be sure, they have more than their fair share of prestigious institutions (universities, hospitals, etc), but parishes are closing at alarming rates in formerly Catholic dominated areas.

And who actually becomes a Catholic priest nowadays? That was the church's advantage back in the day, highly educated, low cost labor for school and administrative positions.

The world is certainly becoming a less religious place in general, but I think Catholicism will decline even quicker than others, Im sure it already has been.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:49 PM
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The world is certainly becoming a less religious place in general, but I think Catholicism will decline even quicker than others, Im sure it already has been.
They have only themselves to blame.

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Old
02-13-2013, 02:53 PM
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Except 'everyone else' doesn't typically have the backing of one of the most powerful entities on the planet to help them avoid justice.
Never underestimate the power of teacher's unions.

But that's also kind of my point: I'm attempting to create a contrast between sex abuse in the Catholic Church vs the abuse that unfolds in our public learning institutions (which BTW I stand behind 100% including the vast majority of instructors). I worry much more about teachers being inappropriate with my children than I worry about the local priest (who's a good guy). And while I don't have the stats before me, I think teachers pose a greater risk than priests. But then again, I'm not about to **** all over the school system and call for its destruction because some pervs slipped through the cracks.

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It's not just the molestation. It's the institutionalized coverup and the lengths the Church went to in order to avoid having those priests face criminal charges that comprise the issue.
But is this kind of behavior unique to the Church? I mean, plug in "Penn State" and "Sandusky" instead of "Church" and "priests" and the meaning remains the same.

Let's end the unfair stereotype that the Catholic Church has some kind of monopoly on pedophilia and recognize that it's much more widespread.

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02-13-2013, 03:08 PM
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Never underestimate the power of teacher's unions.

But that's also kind of my point: I'm attempting to create a contrast between sex abuse in the Catholic Church vs the abuse that unfolds in our public learning institutions (which BTW I stand behind 100% including the vast majority of instructors). I worry much more about teachers being inappropriate with my children than I worry about the local priest (who's a good guy). And while I don't have the stats before me, I think teachers pose a greater risk than priests. But then again, I'm not about to **** all over the school system and call for its destruction because some pervs slipped through the cracks.



But is this kind of behavior unique to the Church? I mean, plug in "Penn State" and "Sandusky" instead of "Church" and "priests" and the meaning remains the same.

Let's end the unfair stereotype that the Catholic Church has some kind of monopoly on pedophilia and recognize that it's much more widespread.
I do not think anyone says the Church has a monopoly on pedophilia, but damn it, they are doing a good job of going for it.

The issue in my mind is covering the behavior up, just as it was at PSU. Unfortunately pedophilia will never be eradicated, but the Church's behavior of covering up the incidents is immoral and unethical, pillars the Church supposedly grounds itself on.

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02-13-2013, 03:16 PM
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I do not think anyone says the Church has a monopoly on pedophilia, but damn it, they are doing a good job of going for it.
I believe that is the widespread perception. I don't have the hard data to quantify the claim but that won't stop me from making it. This is the HF political forum after all where reason only makes cameos and facts are always optional.

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02-13-2013, 03:20 PM
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I believe that is the widespread perception. I don't have the hard data to quantify the claim but that won't stop me from making it. This is the HF political forum after all where reason only makes cameos and facts are always optional.
Hey, no argument there. I used to be Catholic and I do believe the majority of priests are good men. Hell, I went to Catholic high school and attend a Catholic university and they both have been great experiences for me. As with all organizations there are of course bad seeds and the Catholic Church is certainly no exception to the rule.

Once again, my main issue is the Church covering all of these cases up. It is a disservice to the victims and those who still hold the faith and attend mass frequently.

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02-13-2013, 03:27 PM
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Once again, my main issue is the Church covering all of these cases up. It is a disservice to the victims and those who still hold the faith and attend mass frequently.
I think "covering-up" is any large institution's first reflex when confronted by scandal. And I really think they've come a long way in acknowledging the crimes and compensating victims. But the idea has taken root in society that pedophilia is somehow endemic to the Catholic Church, which is pure poppycock and borderline dangerous insofar as abuse in other areas (schools) gets neglected/overlooked. Trust me I'm not religious at all and was not raised Catholic but I'm always trying to see both sides of the issue.

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02-13-2013, 03:35 PM
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I think "covering-up" is any large institution's first reflex when confronted by scandal. And I really think they've come a long way in acknowledging the crimes and compensating victims. But the idea has taken root in society that pedophilia is somehow endemic to the Catholic Church, which is pure poppycock and borderline dangerous insofar as abuse in other areas (schools) gets neglected/overlooked. Trust me I'm not religious at all and was not raised Catholic but I'm always trying to see both sides of the issue.
Are schools getting necessarily neglected? I am not so sure on that point, but if they are that is certainly not good. I do not believe there needs to be oversight on one and not the other. There is also a difference between a higher institution like PSU obfuscating and elementary schools and the like doing so. PSU seems more like an isolated incident while improper behavior at elementary schools could possibly be more endemic.

This is all intuitive though at the end. I do not know where one would obtain information/data on these assumptions we both are making. However, like you said, it has not stopped most on here from making assertions before .

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02-13-2013, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slip View Post
Never underestimate the power of teacher's unions.

But that's also kind of my point: I'm attempting to create a contrast between sex abuse in the Catholic Church vs the abuse that unfolds in our public learning institutions (which BTW I stand behind 100% including the vast majority of instructors). I worry much more about teachers being inappropriate with my children than I worry about the local priest (who's a good guy). And while I don't have the stats before me, I think teachers pose a greater risk than priests. But then again, I'm not about to **** all over the school system and call for its destruction because some pervs slipped through the cracks.
For the bolded, based on what, exactly?

And I've never heard of a teacher being protected by a union for sexual abuse, and in fact I've heard many a time where they've been exposed, charged and found guilty.

If you can find me a constant stream of teachers who have been found guilty for sexual crimes after constant efforts (or even just knowledge) by unions to keep them from being charged, then I might think you have a point.

Though schools do at least have a legitimate purpose for existing in the first place, unlike Churches.

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02-13-2013, 03:44 PM
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And I've never heard of a teacher being protected by a union for sexual abuse, and in fact I've heard many a time where they've been exposed, charged and found guilty.

If you can find me a constant stream of teachers who have been found guilty for sexual crimes after constant efforts (or even just knowledge) by unions to keep them from being charged, then I might think you have a point.
Really?

Found this in 5 seconds:

A former California state senator has called for an investigation into the possibility that sex abusers were intentionally assigned or moved to the poorest, mostly Latino, schools in Los Angeles.

Former California Democratic State Senator Martha Escutia, an attorney and child sex abuse survivors advocate, said there seems to be a pattern of "alleged rampant sex abuse" of Latino students in the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD), PR Newswire reports.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2575941.html

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02-13-2013, 03:47 PM
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For the bolded, based on what, exactly?

And I've never heard of a teacher being protected by a union for sexual abuse, and in fact I've heard many a time where they've been exposed, charged and found guilty.

If you can find me a constant stream of teachers who have been found guilty for sexual crimes after constant efforts (or even just knowledge) by unions to keep them from being charged, then I might think you have a point.

Though schools do at least have a legitimate purpose for existing in the first place, unlike Churches.
My wife is a teacher in Manitoba & this simply is the truth, even the mildest of suspicion & that teacher is gone from the classroom, it's happened in her division, full union agreement, sort it all out in the legal system later.

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02-13-2013, 08:25 PM
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The institution Church, is one of the evils of this humanity ... my two cents

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02-13-2013, 10:01 PM
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Except 'everyone else' doesn't typically have the backing of one of the most powerful entities on the planet to help them avoid justice.

It's not just the molestation. It's the institutionalized coverup and the lengths the Church went to in order to avoid having those priests face criminal charges that comprise the issue.
A complaint has been filed in the International Criminal Court in The Hague against the Vatican and the Pope has been named specifically.
Human rights lawyers and victims of clergy sexual abuse filed a complaint on Tuesday urging the International Criminal Court in The Hague to investigate and prosecute Pope Benedict XVI and three top Vatican officials for crimes against humanity for what they described as abetting and covering up the **** and sexual assault of children by priests.

The formal filing of nearly 80 pages by two American advocacy groups, the Center for Constitutional Rights and the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, was the most substantive effort yet to hold the pope and the Vatican accountable in an international court for sexual abuse by priests.

“The high-level officials of the Catholic church who failed to prevent and punish these criminal actions,” the complaint says, “have, to date, enjoyed absolute impunity(sic).”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/wo...fb-share&_r=3&

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02-13-2013, 10:08 PM
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A complaint has been filed in the International Criminal Court in The Hague against the Vatican and the Pope has been named specifically.
Human rights lawyers and victims of clergy sexual abuse filed a complaint on Tuesday urging the International Criminal Court in The Hague to investigate and prosecute Pope Benedict XVI and three top Vatican officials for crimes against humanity for what they described as abetting and covering up the **** and sexual assault of children by priests.

The formal filing of nearly 80 pages by two American advocacy groups, the Center for Constitutional Rights and the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, was the most substantive effort yet to hold the pope and the Vatican accountable in an international court for sexual abuse by priests.

“The high-level officials of the Catholic church who failed to prevent and punish these criminal actions,” the complaint says, “have, to date, enjoyed absolute impunity(sic).”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/wo...fb-share&_r=3&
Damn! In your lawyerly opinion, do you see much coming from this?

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Old
02-13-2013, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
A complaint has been filed in the International Criminal Court in The Hague against the Vatican and the Pope has been named specifically.
Human rights lawyers and victims of clergy sexual abuse filed a complaint on Tuesday urging the International Criminal Court in The Hague to investigate and prosecute Pope Benedict XVI and three top Vatican officials for crimes against humanity for what they described as abetting and covering up the **** and sexual assault of children by priests.

The formal filing of nearly 80 pages by two American advocacy groups, the Center for Constitutional Rights and the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, was the most substantive effort yet to hold the pope and the Vatican accountable in an international court for sexual abuse by priests.

“The high-level officials of the Catholic church who failed to prevent and punish these criminal actions,” the complaint says, “have, to date, enjoyed absolute impunity(sic).”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/wo...fb-share&_r=3&
Without seeking to minimize the pain of the 80 victims, we are talking about a religion that boasts 1.2 billion members. I don't see how we're at "crimes against humanity" level abuse. This complaint is a ****ing joke, even if the crimes detailed within are not.

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02-14-2013, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
Really?

Found this in 5 seconds:

A former California state senator has called for an investigation into the possibility that sex abusers were intentionally assigned or moved to the poorest, mostly Latino, schools in Los Angeles.

Former California Democratic State Senator Martha Escutia, an attorney and child sex abuse survivors advocate, said there seems to be a pattern of "alleged rampant sex abuse" of Latino students in the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD), PR Newswire reports.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2575941.html
Except aren't the school districts responsible for moving teachers around to new schools? Maybe it's different in the US, but in Canada, it's the school board trustees who assign teachers to schools, not the union boards. Unions have no say in the matter.

But even ignoring that, you'd have a point if it weren't for the fact that the school system is not viewed as outside the reach of the lawmakers. They're making it harder for them to do this by introducing "legislative reforms". There's no legislation in place at all to make religious leaders accountable to the state. The idea is too preposterous to any religious person as it assumes that religious leaders are not good and responsible people, which is blasphemous to them.

And again, even without that, it still makes no sense to shut down schools because they provide an essential service. Churches, on the other hand, provide nothing of the sort.

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02-14-2013, 10:55 AM
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Without seeking to minimize the pain of the 80 victims, we are talking about a religion that boasts 1.2 billion members. I don't see how we're at "crimes against humanity" level abuse. This complaint is a ****ing joke, even if the crimes detailed within are not.
Where is this action limited to 80 victims?

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02-21-2013, 03:31 AM
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Here is the CBC link to the documentary - Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God:
Exposes abuse of power and cover-ups in the Catholic Church that reach the highest office of the Vatican. Oscar-winning director Alex Gibney explores a decades-long struggle against clerical sex abuse in the US that led to a lawsuit against the Pontiff himself.
http://www.canada.com/onlinetv/docum...134/video.html

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