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Old
02-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #301
pitseleh
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
You need to explain your position a bit more. So he is the worst manager but it has nothing to do with the players on the ice. Isn't the GM main job assembling the players on the ice. So if it "has nothing to do with the players on the ice" then how is it the manager's fault. To me the core players have been playing like crap so the team is playing like crap, and the losing has everything to do with the players on the ice. Now if the players are crap that is the GM's fault, if they are playing like crap that is the coaches and players fault.
Clearly by "nothing to do with the players on the ice" he meant that it has nothing to do with them not playing to their potential and everything to do with them not being good enough to begin with. That's the GM's fault.

They aren't as bad as their record suggests but they just aren't a great team any more.

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02-08-2013, 01:58 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
You need to explain your position a bit more. So he is the worst manager but it has nothing to do with the players on the ice. Isn't the GM main job assembling the players on the ice. So if it "has nothing to do with the players on the ice" then how is it the manager's fault. To me the core players have been playing like crap so the team is playing like crap, and the losing has everything to do with the players on the ice. Now if the players are crap that is the GM's fault, if they are playing like crap that is the coaches and players fault.
One only needs to look at their roster to see it's not Ovechkin and Backstrom's fault.

They have 3 top 6 forwards: Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Ribeiro (who they should have never acquired, since I believe a young hardworking prospect like Eakin + the 2nd would have been better to build around, then a UFA in one year).

Laich is a 'decent' #2C, but not a great one....he's been playing above his level for a while now and signed for pretty big money for 5 more years.

They are paying two good 3rd liners very good money...people here complain about Booth for $4.25....they are paying Ward $3 and Brouwer $3.7....pretty bad if you ask me.

Their best two blueliners are Carlsson and Alzner, they both have good contracts...Mike Green is getting Sedin money FFS....they guy is pretty awful, every where but the PP.

Now look at the goaltending....they moved Varlamov (not a big fan, but I think he's better than the guys they kept) and won't have anything on their roster to show for it, for a couple more years now.


It's not looking good.

McPhee had the building blocks in OV, Backstrom, Alzner and Carlsson, but has not put the right pieces in place...he's also gone through what...6 or 7 coaches in his tenure. That is awful.

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02-08-2013, 02:02 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
You need to explain your position a bit more. So he is the worst manager but it has nothing to do with the players on the ice. Isn't the GM main job assembling the players on the ice. So if it "has nothing to do with the players on the ice" then how is it the manager's fault. To me the core players have been playing like crap so the team is playing like crap, and the losing has everything to do with the players on the ice. Now if the players are crap that is the GM's fault, if they are playing like crap that is the coaches and players fault.
Because George McPhee has burned through a ton of coaches in a year and a half, has incrementally made his team worse every off-season, has over-paid free agents, and turned the best offense in the NHL into a lame knockoff of the Minnesota Wild because he panicked after his team got beaten by a ridiculously hot goalie (Halak). His tenure the past three seasons is a joke.

I urge people to come up with 2 or 3 good moves McPhee has made that weren't gift-wrapped Top 5 picks. Has he re-signed anyone to a good contract ever? Has he made a smart UFA acquisition at a good price? Right now the Ribeiro move looks like the only successful thing he's done.

He has also shown a complete unwillingness to make a big move to shore up his team's biggest need: goaltending. Seems so obvious watching him that he came from the Brian Burke school of safe management. At least Burke learned his lesson after Vancouver and made the big/necessary moves in Anaheim (and tried to in Toronto but got burned, which happens).

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02-08-2013, 02:15 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Clearly by "nothing to do with the players on the ice" he meant that it has nothing to do with them not playing to their potential and everything to do with them not being good enough to begin with. That's the GM's fault.

They aren't as bad as their record suggests but they just aren't a great team any more.
Pretty much, yeah. I think it's nearly inconceivable that a guy like Ovechkin has fallen off because of work ethic. Maybe he partied a bit too hard at times, but lots of guys do that, and he's never seemed like a guy that doesn't love going to the rink to work on his game.

He looks like a guy on a team that's ill-suited to play the right game for him. That team is a disaster. They're probably about a 6-8 seed in the east most years right now, but after this start they might not even claw back to that.

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02-08-2013, 02:19 PM
  #305
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Oh, and much like the Lightning, if there was ever a team that should have tried to blow Gillis's doors off to get Schneider, it was the Caps. They had a window at the draft where that may have been feasible, but McPhee stuck with his Burke-esque goalie-of-the-future routine.

PS - if you can't tell, I got "lucky" and ended up with Ovechkin late in the top 10 of a fantasy draft and I am wildly unenthusiastic about it

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02-08-2013, 02:36 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Pretty much, yeah. I think it's nearly inconceivable that a guy like Ovechkin has fallen off because of work ethic. Maybe he partied a bit too hard at times, but lots of guys do that, and he's never seemed like a guy that doesn't love going to the rink to work on his game.
IMO that's exactly what has happened. To me it's more than obvious when you actually compare the fit ELC Ovechkin to this current Ovechkin. It's like night and day, just like comparing current Kovalchuk to those early years in Atlanta. Both of those guys are build pretty tanky by nature so it's easier to slip a bit (body fat). And when that happens to absolute top level athletes who are tuned to max, it's going to show. They look like sloths on ice compared to their early years.

It's not like they suddenly forgot their skills. It's not like the Caps (or Thrashers back then) have a worse team now than what they had back then when these guys were dominating the league.

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02-08-2013, 02:42 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
IMO that's exactly what has happened. To me it's more than obvious when you actually compare the fit ELC Ovechkin to this current Ovechkin. It's like night and day, just like comparing current Kovalchuk to those early years in Atlanta. Both of those guys are build pretty tanky by nature so it's easier to slip a bit (body fat). And when that happens to absolute top level athletes who are tuned to max, it's going to show. They look like sloths on ice compared to their early years.

It's not like they suddenly forgot their skills. It's not like the Caps (or Thrashers back then) have a worse team now than what they had back then when these guys were dominating the league.
from all accounts Kovalchuk is a real workhorse and a player with elite conditioning so I'm not really sure where you're getting this comparison from.

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02-08-2013, 02:52 PM
  #308
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from all accounts Kovalchuk is a real workhorse and a player with elite conditioning so I'm not really sure where you're getting this comparison from.
So is Ovie for that matter, dude is jacked.

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02-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
It's not like they suddenly forgot their skills. It's not like the Caps (or Thrashers back then) have a worse team now than what they had back then when these guys were dominating the league.
Yes, in fact, that's exactly what they have.

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02-08-2013, 02:53 PM
  #310
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from all accounts Kovalchuk is a real workhorse and a player with elite conditioning so I'm not really sure where you're getting this comparison from.
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
So is Ovie for that matter, dude is jacked.
Not sure what to say. Is this sarcasm? Or are you maybe mixing some players up (like Hossa)?

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02-08-2013, 02:57 PM
  #311
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^ He is more so now then he ever was with ATL.

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02-08-2013, 03:01 PM
  #312
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Yes, in fact, that's exactly what they have.
I don't remember Ovechkin playing with players like Backstrom, Green, Carlson or Ribeiro back then. As a matter of fact, Ovechkin had 50 more points than second best scorer in his rookie season.

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02-08-2013, 03:08 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
Not sure what to say. Is this sarcasm? Or are you maybe mixing some players up (like Hossa)?
http://blogs.thescore.com/nhl/2012/1...-like-a-truck/?

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02-08-2013, 03:16 PM
  #314
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Ovechkin's problem is that he's now a 27 year old when most elite goal scorers who dominate as youngsters just don't continue to dominate into their mid-to-late twenties. He's gone from being arguably the best forward in the league to a guy who is a very good but not exceptional first liner. The Caps have regressed in almost every other area compared to where they were in the past and don't have the elite Ovechkin to carry them any more.

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02-08-2013, 03:17 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by PRNuck View Post
Like I said, "Both of those guys are build pretty tanky by nature so it's easier to slip a bit (body fat)".

From what you can tell from that video, it only proves my point. It's the body fat that matters, and that's far from impressive in that clip. There's a reason why Byfuglien, Kovalchuk and Ovechkin all wear full spandex under their jerseys. They are not exactly ripped, not to even mention Kovalchuk's second chin.

Point being, it's one thing to be a tank, and it's another thing to be ripped/jacked. Ovechkin used to be the latter, so did Kovalchuk. It's no coincidence that both of them are no where near the level of play of their early years.


Last edited by abcdefg: 02-08-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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02-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
Like I said, "Both of those guys are build pretty tanky by nature so it's easier to slip a bit (body fat)".

From what you can tell from that video, it only proves my point. It's the body fat that matters, and that's far from impressive in that clip. There's a reason why Byfuglien, Kovalchuk and Ovechkin all wear full spandex under their jerseys. They are not exactly ripped, not to even mention Kovalchuk's second chin.

Point being, it's one thing to be a tank, and it's another thing to be ripped/jacked. Ovechkin used to be the latter, so did Kovalchuk.
Every player in the league wears that stuff. You're acting like they are wearing spanx under their gear

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02-08-2013, 03:30 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Ovechkin's problem is that he's now a 27 year old when most elite goal scorers who dominate as youngsters just don't continue to dominate into their mid-to-late twenties. He's gone from being arguably the best forward in the league to a guy who is a very good but not exceptional first liner. The Caps have regressed in almost every other area compared to where they were in the past and don't have the elite Ovechkin to carry them any more.
I understand your general point, but at the same time, Ovechkin's shot distance hasn't decreased noticeably in recent years. If you ask me, part of the problem is that he might be slowing down a little, but he's also not playing on a team that's designed for him to get 400-500 shots like he used to.

I feel pretty comfortable in asserting that I think the majority of his problem is simply playing on a team that refuses to play to his unique skillset. It's criminal mismanagement.

I really think any laziness/lack of drive that people see in his game is a product of being worn down by his playing environment. It's just not a good situation for him right now. With all the draft picks and young players they've had, it's unfathomable to me that McPhee never ponied up to get him a winger on his opposite wing with some size/talent to work with, like Pittsburgh did when they acquired Neal for Malkin.

Edit: also, continuing to ride the Mike Green horse to death has been a stubborn act of futility for McPhee. How good would Ovechkin look if he had an elite puck-rushing defenseman again? If I was McPhee I'd have burned a lot of future assets to build the right team for Ovi, rather than trying to make the team like every other plodding team in the league. If ever there was a team to pry Zack Bogosian out of Winnipeg...

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02-08-2013, 03:32 PM
  #318
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Every player in the league wears that stuff. You're acting like they are wearing spanx under their gear
Nope. Not even close bro.

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02-08-2013, 03:34 PM
  #319
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I understand your general point, but at the same time, Ovechkin's shot distance hasn't decreased noticeably in recent years. If you ask me, part of the problem is that he might be slowing down a little, but he's also not playing on a team that's designed for him to get 400-500 shots like he used to.

I feel pretty comfortable in asserting that I think the majority of his problem is simply playing on a team that refuses to play to his unique skillset. It's criminal mismanagement.

I really think any laziness/lack of drive that people see in his game is a product of being worn down by his playing environment. It's just not a good situation for him right now. With all the draft picks and young players they've had, it's unfathomable to me that McPhee never ponied up to get him a winger on his opposite wing with some size/talent to work with, like Pittsburgh did when they acquired Neal for Malkin.
I agree. Bruce put him (and the team they had) in a position to succeed and he did. Since, they've all been a dog chasing its tail and OV's play reflects that.

The single biggest thing a coach can do is put his players in a position to succeed. It's why so many of our players do, and why so few of the caps players have in recent years.

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02-08-2013, 03:34 PM
  #320
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Every player in the league wears that stuff. You're acting like they are wearing spanx under their gear



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02-08-2013, 03:37 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Vajakki View Post
Like I said, "Both of those guys are build pretty tanky by nature so it's easier to slip a bit (body fat)".

From what you can tell from that video, it only proves my point. It's the body fat that matters, and that's far from impressive in that clip. There's a reason why Byfuglien, Kovalchuk and Ovechkin all wear full spandex under their jerseys. They are not exactly ripped, not to even mention Kovalchuk's second chin.

Point being, it's one thing to be a tank, and it's another thing to be ripped/jacked. Ovechkin used to be the latter, so did Kovalchuk. It's no coincidence that both of them are no where near the level of play of their early years.
I guess we have different standards for ripped dudes Did it just get weird in here?

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Every player in the league wears that stuff. You're acting like they are wearing spanx under their gear
I giggled.

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02-08-2013, 03:37 PM
  #322
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no babe threads/posts



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02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #323
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Half shirt

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02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #324
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You sure had that one locked and loaded

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02-08-2013, 03:39 PM
  #325
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You sure had that one locked and loaded

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