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What happened to Holzer?

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02-08-2013, 07:57 AM
  #101
GalacticaActual
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When I saw the thread title I honestly thought it would be about how Holzer has turned it around. This is exactly what I expected in the OP: "Holzer's first game was terrible but now look at him. What happened to him? He had a great game vs. Washington and was a beast against Winnipeg!"

Lol.

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02-08-2013, 08:14 AM
  #102
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It's funny- my father and I were talking about the Leafs this morning and how our fanbase is way too impatient and reactionary. We joked "a guy has a few bad games and he's gotta get traded!"

Then I remembered this thread.

Mcclement New A is EXACTLY what is wrong with this fanbase. Holzer played 2 freaken games, 3 total in the NHL and we're getting "WHATS WRONG WITH HIM!!" threads.

What a joke.

Impulsive, reactionary, short sighted fans aren't real hockey fans in my opinion. They don't understand the ups and downs in a season, let alone a career and development of a player.

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02-08-2013, 08:36 AM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
It's funny- my father and I were talking about the Leafs this morning and how our fanbase is way too impatient and reactionary. We joked "a guy has a few bad games and he's gotta get traded!"

Then I remembered this thread.

Mcclement New A is EXACTLY what is wrong with this fanbase. Holzer played 2 freaken games, 3 total in the NHL and we're getting "WHATS WRONG WITH HIM!!" threads.

What a joke.

Impulsive, reactionary, short sighted fans aren't real hockey fans in my opinion. They don't understand the ups and downs in a season, let alone a career and development of a player.
I don't think it has anything to do with being "real hockey fans", more likely younger and impatient. The younger you are the more dramatic things are (not all younger fit this as some are more mature - no surprise). They have not always been there done that. Just like Kessel, 10 games no goals, did anyone think he had forgot how to score?

If you watched Holzer in the AHL, you knew what his game was, and how he was at times dominant in his own zone. The speed and decision making in the NHL does take some adjusting to. I don't think we've seen the best of Holzer yet, and if he can bring his game up to NHL speed, I could see a 2nd. pairing defender there. He could be the stay at home partner for someone like Gardiner.

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02-08-2013, 08:48 AM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with being "real hockey fans", more likely younger and impatient. The younger you are the more dramatic things are (not all younger fit this as some are more mature - no surprise). They have not always been there done that. Just like Kessel, 10 games no goals, did anyone think he had forgot how to score?

If you watched Holzer in the AHL, you knew what his game was, and how he was at times dominant in his own zone. The speed and decision making in the NHL does take some adjusting to. I don't think we've seen the best of Holzer yet, and if he can bring his game up to NHL speed, I could see a 2nd. pairing defender there. He could be the stay at home partner for someone like Gardiner.

Ok, "not real hockey fans" may have been a bit harsh. But yes, they are most likely younger and impatient fans. They haven't seen all the ups and downs... heck they probably haven't even watched a HOF caliber player's entire career from beginning to end to understand the ups, downs, droughts, and jubilation's they will go through.

I agree with your assesment of Holzer. I can see a real steady, defensive dman. A guy who can play a safe, sound game... rough around the edges but not extremely physical. A guy you can rely on in your own end, and PK, and makes the steady play. Gardiner-Holzer certainly has some intrigue to it going forward.

I can see Holzer in the Rob Scuderi, Willie Mitchell type of mold.

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02-08-2013, 08:52 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with being "real hockey fans", more likely younger and impatient. The younger you are the more dramatic things are (not all younger fit this as some are more mature - no surprise). They have not always been there done that. Just like Kessel, 10 games no goals, did anyone think he had forgot how to score?

If you watched Holzer in the AHL, you knew what his game was, and how he was at times dominant in his own zone. The speed and decision making in the NHL does take some adjusting to. I don't think we've seen the best of Holzer yet, and if he can bring his game up to NHL speed, I could see a 2nd. pairing defender there. He could be the stay at home partner for someone like Gardiner.
When Gunnar and Gards are good to go they could combine for a pretty solid top four of:

Gunnar-Phaneuf
Gardiner-Holzer

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02-08-2013, 09:36 AM
  #106
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^^
Bit soon to cast him in the top 4 no?


Anyways, the thing I like about Holzer as opposed to a Fraser or some other tweeners is his vertical mobility. He has a good first step when hes moving out of the zone, and definitely has better footspeed than Schenn

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02-08-2013, 09:39 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
^^
Bit soon to cast him in the top 4 no?


Anyways, the thing I like about Holzer as opposed to a Fraser or some other tweeners is his vertical mobility. He has a good first step when hes moving out of the zone, and definitely has better footspeed than Schenn
Although Kostka was putting all those points with the Marlies, and Rangers was getting all the hype, I thought Holzer was the defender who was the most solid in his own zone.

With Phaneuf and Gardiner, to me their own zone is the bigger concern.

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02-08-2013, 09:46 AM
  #108
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I think its time to trade Liles. He doesnt fit the mold in TO, and when Gardiner comes back, Liles gets pushed back. Watching Liles this season, he has trouble passing and coughing up the puck on the breakouts. He isnt skating like he should and that is what Gards will bring. Honestly if I was Nonis I would look at teams like Detroit and Colorado as a trade option, they need help there and he fits their style more. As for Holzer he is getting into the dirty spots more and protecting the net. The more comfortable he gets the better he's playing.

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02-08-2013, 09:47 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafsfuture View Post
^^
Bit soon to cast him in the top 4 no?


Anyways, the thing I like about Holzer as opposed to a Fraser or some other tweeners is his vertical mobility. He has a good first step when hes moving out of the zone, and definitely has better footspeed than Schenn
In another teams top four maybe, in ours I dont think so, who would Holzer be fighting for a spot in the top four with? Liles? Kostka? Fraser???

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02-08-2013, 09:52 AM
  #110
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always knew holzer would make a really nice impact in the big league.

Kid can skate for being a shutdown type d man... his recovery is really good as well. Him and gunnar really know what angles to take and use their body to their advantage.

when jake is ready

phaneuf-gunnarsson
holzer-gardiner
liles-franson/komi

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02-08-2013, 09:53 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
In another teams top four maybe, in ours I dont think so, who would Holzer be fighting for a spot in the top four with? Liles? Kostka? Fraser???
When healthy (alphabetical):


Franson
Fraser
Gardiner
Gunnarsson
Holzer
Komisarek
Kostka
Liles
Phaneuf

I'd be okay if Liles was moved.

Wonder if you could get a decent prospect for Liles and Steckel?

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02-08-2013, 10:06 AM
  #112
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What happened to Holzer? What happened is that he's only played a handful of NHL games in his entire career. It's going to take time to adjust to the level of skill and speed at the NHL level because it requires quicker decision making on the ice. Give him some time. Credit to him, he's had really solid games since having a bad game against Carolina.

People constantly complain about how this team has been stuck in mediocrity for far too long. The reason is because we've had management that suffer from the same problem that the fans do - impatience. I'm tired of watching other teams reap the rewards for the players that we weren't patient enough to develop fully all because we wanted a quick fix. I'm tired of seeing other teams use our picks to draft potential franchise players - kind of players that our team needs to be a Cup contender. Too much knee jerk reactions go on but patience and realistic expectations will never steer you wrong. I love the fact that we have so many young guys in our own system playing on the team - it gives us a chance to see where they're at and what they could be.

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02-08-2013, 10:21 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
In another teams top four maybe, in ours I dont think so, who would Holzer be fighting for a spot in the top four with? Liles? Kostka? Fraser???
IMO I want our top 4 to be:
Phaneuf -- Gunnarsson
Liles -- Gardiner

I know people will disagree with Liles, but I really like the way he plays the game. I know he is small, and he isnt that great in his own end, but he uses his stocky frame well, uses the body to move the puck, and when he gets the puck in his own end he is the type of guy who gets it out hard, rather than does something soft.

Our bottom pairing would be a combo of: Holzer, Kostka, Franson.

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02-08-2013, 10:25 AM
  #114
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Liles is not stocky. Francois Bouillon is stocky. Liles is garbage, trade him for a bag of picks or amnesty him.

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02-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #115
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Holzer has been really impressive and Franson/Frasor been steady too... To me and I already started a thread on this Phaneuf is still a mess.. I know he has had a few flashes of steady play but overall has been BRUTAL no what how you try and justifiy it... zero offense, way overplayed.. slow and scared on the PP..

To me Dion is not in my top 6 of the future... trade him for value if he gets on a decent run and role with...

Jake
Holzer
Franson
Kostka
Reilly
Gunner/Frasor

Liles & Komi are the 2 perfect buyouts... Move these 3 (inc Dion) and their is all kinds of cap room to get the Perry's and Getzlaf's this team needs up front to compliment Phil, Lupes, Kadri, Frattin

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02-08-2013, 10:40 AM
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K19 View Post
Liles is not stocky. Francois Bouillon is stocky. Liles is garbage, trade him for a bag of picks or amnesty him.
He'll be very expendable next year. With Holzer and Kostka jumping in with both feet in, Fraser as a 7th man and Gardiner and Rielly jumping into his spot we won't need him. Hopefully we can grab a 2nd rounder for him.

Anyways, Holzer has been great and is quickly solidifying his spot as an NHL defenseman. I've been excited for him to advance to the NHL for a few years and he's finally getting an opportunity to prove himself and is taking full advantage.

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02-09-2013, 12:36 AM
  #117
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I've loved what I've seen from Holzer. Our version of Roman Polak! Just watch!

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02-09-2013, 01:14 AM
  #118
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I like Holzer/Franson as our future bottom pairing. I think they would compliment each other perfectly, and both are physical threats as an added plus.

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02-09-2013, 01:31 AM
  #119
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Gunnar - Phaneuf
Holzer - Gardiner
Liles - Franson/Komi
Kostka

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02-09-2013, 01:31 AM
  #120
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We need to trade Liles.

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02-09-2013, 01:48 AM
  #121
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Don't rip on OP.

Holzer was indeed bad his first game/couple games. I knew he was a capable player from seeing him in the AHL but not everyone has that privilege.

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02-09-2013, 02:17 AM
  #122
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We are very quickly building alot of expendable d-men.

not to say our defense is amazing, but we have alot of average d-men with decent value(Kostka surprising this year, Franson has value, Liles) and ALOT of d-prospects(rielly, Finn, Percy, Blacker)

we need to make a trade for a forward with our defensive depth.

Obviously not right now, but showcase the guys we have now and make a trade this summer.

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02-09-2013, 01:24 PM
  #123
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Holzer making Liles expendable?? Is this a joke, pure idiocracy

Holzer has played 4 games this year. Remember Luke Schenn and Kieth Aulie. Their first NHL games were extremely impressive but they both ran into major slumps.

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02-09-2013, 08:30 PM
  #124
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OMG! What happened to Holzer? I thought he is the stay at home, no offensive tools dman...how could he be possibly be having as many goals as phil kessel has atm??

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02-09-2013, 08:32 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by bonjovi0308 View Post
OMG! What happened to Holzer? I thought he is the stay at home, no offensive tools dman...how could he be possibly be having as many goals as phil kessel has atm??
Bust.

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