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Monday Night Raw Discussion Thread #39

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Old
02-18-2013, 11:24 PM
  #601
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The Shield and Brock Lesnar are the only reasons I watch now. The Sheild are getting better which is great.

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02-18-2013, 11:25 PM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Megahab View Post
Ya, I think it's time to change the WWE logo. They've had the scratch logo for about 15 years with slight modifications. I remember reading on some Internet wrestling site that they were going to introduce a new logo at Wrestlemania 20 but that didn't happen.
Maybe Wrestlemania 30? 30th anniversary of Wrestlemania. Would be a good time.

Lesnar is arguably right up there as a draw too. Rock's audience in Hollywood don't care for wrestling mostly. Lesnar's audience from UFC were those diehard fans during the Attitude Era that moved on to the next big thing in competition, MMA.

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02-18-2013, 11:27 PM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Vince McMahon View Post
Maybe Wrestlemania 30? 30th anniversary of Wrestlemania. Would be a good time.

Lesnar is arguably right up there as a draw too. Rock's audience in Hollywood don't care for wrestling mostly. Lesnar's audience from UFC were those diehard fans during the Attitude Era that moved on to the next big thing in competition, MMA.
Lesnar was the reason I started watching MMA. Currently I would rather watch a UFC PPV than a WWE one.

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02-18-2013, 11:28 PM
  #604
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Lesnar was the reason I watched MMA too. Now I only watch if Chael Sonnen is fighting.

I would never buy an MMA PPV though because fights can go literally seconds until they're over. With WWE, you know you'll get three hours or solid entertainment (most times).

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02-18-2013, 11:33 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Nobody would argue who the biggest draw is. But you have to wonder what the hell is to sell when he's not there 8 months out of the year. They made Punk look pretty bad. That program could have been interesting with swapping a few wins or something. Rocky is still a huge draw even if he doesn't win. It also helps talent go over to new levels for the rest of the year.

People miss the big picture about these part-time guys. They can win matches, but to win feuds is pretty pointless. When Rocky leaves in April, why do I want to watch second rate wrestlers who can't even beat him?

You have to put people over. It's wrestling 101. And he could have even done that with saying "Punk gave me one of the best matches I can remember. Up there with Austin and Cena." Instead he just completely trashes all over him. That's horse ****. That doesn't do anything for the product.
There are a lot of people you can discuss about not putting people over. Rock has not ever been one of them. They're building up to the big rub for Mania. Otherwise, he'd be Jericho. A great show but everyone knows he's losing any feud he's in.

As for trashing Punk...he SPAT on him. Come on, now! That is putting him over as a heel. He is not burying him in any way, shape, or form.

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02-18-2013, 11:39 PM
  #606
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CM Punk may be stepping into the WRESTLEMANIA main event with THE ROCK. Let that soak in.

If someone said Punk may be headlining Wrestlemania with The Rock five years ago, they'd think you're ****ing insane. CM Punk being in a program with The Rock is doing wonders alone for Punk.

The numbers don't lie. Ever since Punk has been in this program with The Rock, his rating numbers have been larger than they've been for the most part - and I'm not talking about his segments when The Rock is there. I'm talking about when Punk is cutting a promo alone.

I **** on The Rock for his cardio, but Punk is getting a big rub from the program with Rock.

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02-18-2013, 11:42 PM
  #607
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I'll believe Punk in the Main Event at Mania when I see it.

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02-18-2013, 11:44 PM
  #608
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I'll believe Punk in the Main Event at Mania when I see it.
Same but I am hoping with every bit of my being for it. lol

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02-18-2013, 11:44 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Vince McMahon View Post
CM Punk may be stepping into the WRESTLEMANIA main event with THE ROCK. Let that soak in.

If someone said Punk may be headlining Wrestlemania with The Rock five years ago, they'd think you're ****ing insane. CM Punk being in a program with The Rock is doing wonders alone for Punk.

The numbers don't lie. Ever since Punk has been in this program with The Rock, his rating numbers have been larger than they've been for the most part - and I'm not talking about his segments when The Rock is there. I'm talking about when Punk is cutting a promo alone.

I **** on The Rock for his cardio, but Punk is getting a big rub from the program with Rock.
but we all know its gonna be Cena vs Rock II or Cena vs Punk vs Rock with Cena coming out of WM with the title, if he dosnt id be shocked and happy that WWE didnt do something so predictable

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02-18-2013, 11:44 PM
  #610
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I never thought I'd say it, but I really hope Taker sits this one out. Heal up for a final match at WM30. Sit this one out.

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02-18-2013, 11:45 PM
  #611
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but we all know its gonna be Cena vs Rock II or Cena vs Punk vs Rock with Cena coming out of WM with the title, if he dosnt id be shocked and happy that WWE didnt do something so predictable
The point is Punk is getting a MAJOR rub, and when Rock leaves, Punk-Cena resume their feud that never really finished this past fall.

Punk loses to 'Taker and its not so easy to slot him back in that position post-WM right away.

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02-18-2013, 11:48 PM
  #612
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The spinner belt made sense when Cena debuted it with his rapper gimmick (with spinner chains/rims being "in" in rap music at the time.) But it shoulda ended when that gimmick ended. Them keeping that belt all this time woulda been like keeping the Smoking Skull after Austin lost the title.

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02-19-2013, 12:21 AM
  #613
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Is the big payoff really John Cena defying odds and winning? That puts the program right back to square one. Nothing changes.

Now I'm not an internet advocate of Heel Cena, but imagine the ratings if SOMEHOW Punk won the title and we go off air w/ Cena destroying both Rock/Punk post-match entering his heel turn because he couldn't "win the big one".

I just don't believe the huge payoff needs to be Cena winning. Then did anything change over the past 3-4 years?

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02-19-2013, 12:44 AM
  #614
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We're not getting REAL change until Cena retires or there's someone that can replace him to allow him to turn heel.

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02-19-2013, 01:20 AM
  #615
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It was nice to see them actually promote things for next weeks show, Punk/Cena and Vince back on television. The new title is fine, much better than the spinner belt. Funny that the last time we see the stupid spinner belt it was used to take out the guy who bought that awful title in.

I really hope we don't get Miz/Cesaro at Mania, but I guess it is going that way. Sheamus/Barrett would be a good match that I can get behind. Ricardo stealing the case tonight and Henry dancing were great haha.

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02-19-2013, 03:10 AM
  #616
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Damn that new belt is underwhelming. Been waiting for the title to change for so long, and it's better than the spinner belt, but man that new one is pretty weak as well.

The big gold belt is where it's at.

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02-19-2013, 03:18 AM
  #617
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What about this for next week:

Cena/Punk going at it. Punk gets the heat on Cena. Cena makes the comeback. Cena has Punk in the STFU. Punk about to tap...

*Lights go out*

We hear Cole screaming "Dammit! Not again!"

*Lights turn on*

Strange. Punk is still in the STFU and is tapping.

Aftermath: we see Punk furious at Heyman about what happened! "Where were they, Paul? Where the hell were they! I am done with you, Paul! First the Rumlbe, then EC, now this! I'm done with you!" Heyman informs "Punk.....I have no explanation... I didn't hire The Shield for tonight..."

*Lights go out again*

*BONG*

*Lights come up*

The Taker is in the ring and whatever happens from there happen

It closes Punk's involvement from Rock/Cena. It removes Heyman from Punk so he can be focused with Lesnar/Triple H.
........

OR

Undertaker isn't working Mania, double pin, and we get the 3-way.

Like most of you, I believe Punk/Cena/Rock 3 way when I see it.

I honestly don't think Punk belongs in the match either because no matter how predictable it is, Cena needs to get his 1v1 win back over The Rock.

The only benefit of having Punk involved is work rate wise so he and Cena can do most of the work. I don't even think Punk would contribute anything promo wise because he has been feuding with both men for the last like 8 months and at this point all of his material would be redundant. Yes, Rock/Cena is redundant but it has been a year. Punk literally has been verbally sparing with them since August. He would be a third wheel if there ever was one and would be like how Big Show was in the WM 2000 main event. At the same time, if Taker isn't working Mania you can't not have Punk in one of the 2 biggest matches... so he has to be put in the WWE title match.

Punk just got 2 months of rub from The Rock. I don't quite know what people are expecting here. This isn't the old days where stars are made in a single night in a match. Besides, Punk's star was already made back on Raw in June 2011. Punk won't be any bigger by being the 3rd wheel on Cena/Rock. It will be cool to say he main evented Mania and use that as promo ammo, but that's it. He'll still be the same CM Punk (not meaning that in a a bad way).


Last edited by El Dandy*: 02-19-2013 at 03:57 AM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 03:30 AM
  #618
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Nobody would argue who the biggest draw is. But you have to wonder what the hell is to sell when he's not there 8 months out of the year. They made Punk look pretty bad. That program could have been interesting with swapping a few wins or something. Rocky is still a huge draw even if he doesn't win. It also helps talent go over to new levels for the rest of the year.

People miss the big picture about these part-time guys. They can win matches, but to win feuds is pretty pointless. When Rocky leaves in April, why do I want to watch second rate wrestlers who can't even beat him?

You have to put people over. It's wrestling 101. And he could have even done that with saying "Punk gave me one of the best matches I can remember. Up there with Austin and Cena." Instead he just completely trashes all over him. That's horse ****. That doesn't do anything for the product.
The Rock needs to be winning heading into Wrestlemania. A loss would hurt him. Losing any matches to CM Punk before Wrestlemania would hurt The Rock vs. Cena match or even Rock-Cena-Punk. If I'm running WWE and I know I have The Rock for most of the next 2-3 months, then I'm definitely putting the WWE title on him and I have him put someone over on his way out. You can't have him lose to CM Punk and then lose to another guy, as the second loss will not mean as much.

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Originally Posted by Rainbow Express View Post
What about this for next week:

Cena/Punk going at it. Punk gets the heat on Cena. Cena makes the comeback. Cena has Punk in the STFU. Punk about to tap...

*Lights go out*

We hear Cole screaming "Dammit! Not again!"

*Lights turn on*

Strange. Punk is still in the STFU and is tapping.

Aftermath: we see Punk furious at Heyman about what happened! "Where were they, Paul? Where the hell were they!" Heyman informs "Punk.....I have no explanation... I didn't hire The Shield for tonight..."

*Lights go out again*

*BONG*

*Lights come up*


The Taker is in the ring and whatever happens from there happen
........
The problem with this is that there is no real storyline reason for The Undertaker to return by interfering in a Cena vs. CM Punk match.

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Old
02-19-2013, 03:46 AM
  #619
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Originally Posted by Megahab View Post
The Rock needs to be winning heading into Wrestlemania. A loss would hurt him. Losing any matches to CM Punk before Wrestlemania would hurt The Rock vs. Cena match or even Rock-Cena-Punk. If I'm running WWE and I know I have The Rock for most of the next 2-3 months, then I'm definitely putting the WWE title on him and I have him put someone over on his way out. You can't have him lose to CM Punk and then lose to another guy, as the second loss will not mean as much.



The problem with this is that there is no real storyline reason for The Undertaker to return by interfering in a Cena vs. CM Punk match.
True, but that never stopped the booking team from doing it before.

HHH/Undertaker from 27 was started by HHH just walking out and looking at the Mania sign without a word or physical altercation happening... and the match was just on.

Maybe this time you spin that instead of the guy chasing The Streak (HHH last year, HBK's last match)... The Taker is the one on the chase. You have 5 weeks after that to build promo wise and explain why he chooses Punk. Best in the world, or 430 day streak or whatever whatever, but explain why Taker chooses Punk. Have Punk be a heel and dodge for 2 weeks and say no way, then BAM Punk gets heat on Taker and the match is officially on.

EDIT: Nevermind. I just remembered Taker chased HHH last year lol I figured my fantasy booking sounded familiar haha
--
or
--

Taker sits this year out


Last edited by El Dandy*: 02-19-2013 at 04:08 AM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 05:05 AM
  #620
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Originally Posted by Vince McMahon View Post
The title actually looks nice without those brahma bull side plates.



If the title was a TAD smaller in size, it'd be nicer, but I still like it. I don't like the brahma bull on the side right now.
The new title is a look that can potentially last for some time. Initially when it was unveiled I asked myself about the brahma bulls, but seeing this eases my mind. I like the fact that it's not a huge belt or too over the top. I like the fact that the rock, while poking fun at it, also gave his 'seal of approval' for lack of better words by saying "at the time it worked". I think this belt takes a lot from earlier championship belts. After the over the top, some may say gaudy spinner belt, this new one is tame. Maybe that's the best word to use.

Typing this, I had a thought come to mind. Currently we've got more serious type characters, in punk, cena, chasing rocky for the wwe title. The more, I guess you could say flamboyant, characters in ziggler, and del rio, surrounding the bigger, brighter whc title. Unsure if I'd add swagger into that argument though... Then again I could just be rambling here

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02-19-2013, 07:24 AM
  #621
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Taker/Punk would be huge for the sake of a big time match, but they had horrible chemistry last time around and it ended with a quick 5 minute beat down in the HIAC. Then there were reports Taker was pissed at Punk for not carrying himself like a champion of the industry.

That match will not deliver and it will end up being a bust.

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02-19-2013, 07:34 AM
  #622
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Old
02-19-2013, 07:59 AM
  #623
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What about this for next week:

Cena/Punk going at it. Punk gets the heat on Cena. Cena makes the comeback. Cena has Punk in the STFU. Punk about to tap...

*Lights go out*

We hear Cole screaming "Dammit! Not again!"

*Lights turn on*

Strange. Punk is still in the STFU and is tapping.

Aftermath: we see Punk furious at Heyman about what happened! "Where were they, Paul? Where the hell were they! I am done with you, Paul! First the Rumlbe, then EC, now this! I'm done with you!" Heyman informs "Punk.....I have no explanation... I didn't hire The Shield for tonight..."

*Lights go out again*

*BONG*

*Lights come up*

The Taker is in the ring and whatever happens from there happen

It closes Punk's involvement from Rock/Cena. It removes Heyman from Punk so he can be focused with Lesnar/Triple H.
........

OR

Undertaker isn't working Mania, double pin, and we get the 3-way.

Like most of you, I believe Punk/Cena/Rock 3 way when I see it.

I honestly don't think Punk belongs in the match either because no matter how predictable it is, Cena needs to get his 1v1 win back over The Rock.

The only benefit of having Punk involved is work rate wise so he and Cena can do most of the work. I don't even think Punk would contribute anything promo wise because he has been feuding with both men for the last like 8 months and at this point all of his material would be redundant. Yes, Rock/Cena is redundant but it has been a year. Punk literally has been verbally sparing with them since August. He would be a third wheel if there ever was one and would be like how Big Show was in the WM 2000 main event. At the same time, if Taker isn't working Mania you can't not have Punk in one of the 2 biggest matches... so he has to be put in the WWE title match.

Punk just got 2 months of rub from The Rock. I don't quite know what people are expecting here. This isn't the old days where stars are made in a single night in a match. Besides, Punk's star was already made back on Raw in June 2011. Punk won't be any bigger by being the 3rd wheel on Cena/Rock. It will be cool to say he main evented Mania and use that as promo ammo, but that's it. He'll still be the same CM Punk (not meaning that in a a bad way).
I love your first scenario. I don't think it will happen, and if it does the match probably won't be that great and Punk would obviously lose, but that's a really nice set up for it imo. It's easy to write Undertaker into a program with Punk. Just have the Undertaker interfere in that match and then say he's sick of Punk disrespecting the WWE and the championship title, and has an opportunity for him to put his ability to the test rather than his talking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
- Great freaking match between Ziggler/Del Rio. I still don't know why they booked this when it could be a post-WM feud. They couldn't find anyone else? Really? A pretty clean win, too? Yikes.

I also REALLY missed JBL tonight. He would have been selling the possibility of a cash-in keeping everyone tuned in. King/Cole are ****ing stupid. They didn't even mention that he could use the cash-in tonight. Why wouldn't you be selling the hell out of it?

Then when that moment happened, which was awesome with Ricardo stealing it, the big payoff wasn't there because they weren't putting it over all match long. Idiots!


- The Shield: What the hell can I say? They are so good. The way they bring psychology into the ring. The way they work together. The way they feed off one another. It's just a thing of beauty. This is what wrestling is all about. I'm not just being an internet mark - these guys are the best thing going right now. I have to break it down by each guy:

- Ambrose: His moves, faces, and everything he does in the ring is just so captivating. I'm so sold and become a kid again. I believe the over-dramatic sells. When he was kicked in the head and he was sitting outside the ring - it looked so damn real. Last night when he was reaching to the wrong corner for the tag. All that stuff adds so much to the show. That's why I pay money for this stuff. The act is so beautiful. It's like a thing of art. You can tell he's perfected the art of selling and it's wrestling. I love seeing a guy make me believe the move. I love a guy who adds an extra flip when he gets hit. It's awesome.

- Reigns: He's completely feeding off of Rollins/Ambrose. He's really learning the art of selling. When he missed that cross body to the corner, he sold it like a champ and even gave the crowd more by hitting the ground hard. It was great. I also love his battle cry during the match. It really sells the warrior persona.

- Rollins: By far the best in the ring. He's so smooth. I don't think he knows the word botch. He reminds me of HBK how smooth he is in the ring. I know that's a reach, but it's true. He's just so damn good. I love his move set. It's unique.





I'll admit.. I was wrong. They are actually letting this go and it's awesome. This has legit potential if they keep it going w/ that realism. I thought they'd water it down, and they did not. I can't wait til we move around the country and hear different reactions.

I was wrong. This is great stuff.
The thing that works for the Shield is that it seems so raw and not even rehearsed. We know itís completely fake and scripted but theyíre actually bringing an element of realism to the show that I havenít seen since Punkís ďpipebombĒ before MITB 2011. They havenít really even had much offense outside of Rollins with a top rope move, the powerbomb, or the Reigns spear, but they come at really good times in the match and it works. I canít explain it, but the flow of the match just works for me. Everything they have going right now, from the primal screams on the turnbuckle during a match, to entering and exiting through the crowd (I especially like how they flee the scene together, always showing signs of pain but with smiles on their faces) to Ambrose and Rollins being able to sell a stiff breeze as a hurricane force gusts, they just get the job done right. Some will say that they were pushed too quickly and didnít deserve it, since theyíre all extremely fresh faces in the WWE, but I just think theyíre a testament to some of the untapped talent that the WWE has and hasnít shown us yet, because heaven forbid the Cenas, Rybacks, and Sheamuses of the WWE take a loss to a new guy.

When they do finally lose, and I think itís coming at Wrestlemania, they better hype the match to hell and back and really put over everyone involved. If itís even just Ryback v Reigns 1 on 1, it needs to be an ugly match with carnage. Tables, maybe some blood, and silence from everyone in the broadcast booth not named JBL...since he seems to be the only guy that knows how to put guys over from those seats.

And on the Swagger/Zeb thing, still can't believe they did it. Whoever joked about Ricardo being deported might not be too far off base. Having seen their in ring promo and video clip last night, and then factoring in that they have 6 weeks (I think) still for this build, I would say it's almost a guarantee that there is a part of this program involving Ricardo either being deported or threatened with it. They will no doubt make mention of it somehow, and a lot of people aren't going to like it.

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02-19-2013, 08:03 AM
  #624
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Taker/Punk would be huge for the sake of a big time match, but they had horrible chemistry last time around and it ended with a quick 5 minute beat down in the HIAC. Then there were reports Taker was pissed at Punk for not carrying himself like a champion of the industry.

That match will not deliver and it will end up being a bust.
The only reason I would enjoy it is just for the potential to be shocked more than I ever expected to be shocked...if Punk wins of course. It would easily be the most surprising outcome I've ever seen.

Same with Rock v Cena II...cuz we all "know" that Cena is going to win. Then again, I thought I knew Cena would win last year too.

The WWE hasn't been too good with delivering those shocking victories/losses, but the potential is there and that's what would make those matches fun.

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02-19-2013, 08:55 AM
  #625
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Lesnar was the reason I started watching MMA. Currently I would rather watch a UFC PPV than a WWE one.
that's pretty sad

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