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Old
02-05-2013, 09:11 PM
  #501
FlashyG
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
This season may be a throw away year for the team thanks to Ken Holland, but this is a big year for the fan base. Consider it a character building year and not being a bandwagon fan and supporting the team even if they suck.
I'd blame Babcock and his coaching staff more than Holland although there is plenty of blame to go around. Holland isn't the one giving Cleary all that ice-time at the expense of the called up offensive prospects he also isn't the one gluing Tootoo to the bench. He isn't responsible for the ridiculously bad special teams either.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:11 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Three years of 100 point hockey? Yeah, that's pretty bad. They should be getting three consecutive years of 110 point hockey. Darn those terrible rosters.
Fine, you be satisfied with mediocre playoff performances.

The rest of us will look for changes to the team to be made so they can continue the history of excellence we've come to expect since 1997.

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02-05-2013, 09:12 PM
  #503
detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
This season may be a throw away year for the team thanks to Ken Holland, but this is a big year for the fan base. Consider it a character building year and not being a bandwagon fan and supporting the team even if they suck.
I would agree with this if we had core players who still had room to grow, but we basically have 1 forward (Brunner) and 1 defenseman (Smith) who can appreciably improve as the year goes on. Everyone else is not going to get much better and is more likely to get worse simply due to age.

I would be much happier watching this "throw away year" if I got to watch guys like Tatar and Nyquist grow as NHL players, and/or watch players we had acquired in the last year (or two) who were going to be a part of the core for years to come.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:12 PM
  #504
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
This season may be a throw away year for the team thanks to Ken Holland, but this is a big year for the fan base. Consider it a character building year and not being a bandwagon fan and supporting the team even if they suck.
But Calgary sucks (too). In some respects, they're better than their record, and I've liked what Hudler has shown so far, but Kipper has been the weak link of all things.

However, if this is a rebuilding year, maybe stocking the cupboard with more young talent will be the biggest upside.

I'm not that upset with Babcock for the most part, he doesn't have much to work with, but I wasn't expecting the Flames to roll into Motown and win by 3. At that rate, the Oil and Kings games could be ugly.

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02-05-2013, 09:12 PM
  #505
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Clearly we were good enough to beat the Blues. So it's not such a farfetched idea that we can compete with them on their level, so far.
to be perfectly fair, this is the exact same as saying that since we lost to Columbus then we must not be able to compete with them and must be worse then them

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:12 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by steafo View Post
Tatar has been the best wing tonight, it could be a case of him trying to prove he belongs but much like Brunner the puck tends to follow him. If we could trade some redundant bottom six players I would like to see a lineup of this:

Bert-datsyuk-Brunner
Nyquist/Tatar-zetterberg-Franzen
Nyquist/Tatar-fil-helm
Eaves/miller-abdelkader-tootoo

This gives us 3 scoring lines, if you'd rather have fil at the wing helm can play center instead.
Love the idea.
Three scoring lines.
any youth and drive.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #507
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I am on Jman's side on this one.
we were 6th best
7th best
and 6th best team in the league over those 3 years.

Lose 2 of our 3 best Dmen in the same year....

Ya, this year we are worse... we knew we would be... so now we sit around 15-17th in the league.

This had to happen before management rebuilds

So if you really want them to blow it up... they will have to miss the playoffs
I think I speak for most of "this" side when I say missing playoffs is fine as long as we are losing with the kids getting some time in with the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. Getting some of their work ethic and approach to the game to rub off on the likes of Tatar, Nyquist, Smith, etc. is crucial. And we should be giving them a little bit of responsibility (Smith was getting some special teams time, thankfully). Why bother narrowly missing the playoffs with Bertuzzi on Datsyuks wing when a guy like Nyquist could be trying to replicate some of Datsyuk's work and learn from one of the best players in the league?

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Clearly we were good enough to beat the Blues. So it's not such a farfetched idea that we can compete with them on their level, so far.
We beat the Blues when they were tired.
Obviously tired.
And we needed a gift call to do it.

Even if we beat them cold, with all things being equal and no gift calls, it's silly to say we're a contender based on one game.

Were the Islanders a contender the year they smoked us?
Nope.

The Wings got bounced in 5 games in round 1.
We've gone from winning the cup, to losing the cup finals, two losing in round 2 twice, to losing in round 1.

And since losing in round 1, we lost two experienced and solid defensive defensemen without any real attempt to replace them.

So it was easy to believe that this team was going to be hardpressed to even match last year.

And now, 1/5th of the way through the season, it sure looks like the results support that idea.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #509
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I am on Jman's side on this one.
we were 6th best
7th best
and 6th best team in the league over those 3 years.

Lose 2 of our 3 best Dmen in the same year....

Ya, this year we are worse... we knew we would be... so now we sit around 15-17th in the league.

This had to happen before management rebuilds

So if you really want them to blow it up... they will have to miss the playoffs
You're not on his side.

His side is "NOTHING WRONG WITH ANYTHING INVOLVING THE RED WINGS! Babcock is a genius! Cleary is great! Quincey is good! Power play doesn't need no work! We're obvious contenders for the Stanley Cup!"

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Originally Posted by THW View Post
Welcome to ignoreville junior. You obviously have no idea what the adults on this board are saying, and you you twist everything to jibberish to "attempt" to look like you know what you are saying...so Goodnight, sweet prince.
Fantastic idea. Done. I feel much better now.
Quote:
And now, 1/5th of the way through the season, it sure looks like the results support that idea.
The kid doesn't really get logic. Kinda pointless to talk to him.

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02-05-2013, 09:13 PM
  #510
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Babcock is just begging KH to fire him. I can't really think of one positive decision he's done this year.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:14 PM
  #511
WingedWheel1987
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Three years of 100 point hockey? Yeah, that's pretty bad. They should be getting three consecutive years of 110 point hockey. Darn those terrible rosters.
Do you notice how the bottom six is always garbage in the playoffs?

Do you notice how Datsyuk and Zetterberg have to play like absolute monsters in the playoffs to have any chance of getting past the first round?

This team sucks in the playoffs. Their roster was capable of winning regular season games, but the roster is no longer good enough to win in the playoffs.

100 points and getting bounced in the 1st or 2nd round is worthless.

This team is not contending for the cup. They are closer to contending for Seth Jones.

Losing Stuart and Lidstrom and replacing them with nothing or Quincey is a sure fire bet to watching mediocre hockey.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:14 PM
  #512
JmanWingsFan
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
So, if I understand you here... that would be what the kids call a small sample size, right? Interesting, very interesting... I've read somewhere recently that using small sample sizes is foolish, or rubbish, or something to that effect.
I don't believe I ever compared Detroit to St. Louis. I merely implied that 2 games ago, we were in position to be one point back, and we weren't losing routinely. In fact, all of that was meant to mock such logic.

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02-05-2013, 09:16 PM
  #513
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Another JMan argument. Whoopdy-doo...

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:17 PM
  #514
WingedWheel1987
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I don't believe I ever compared Detroit to St. Louis. I merely implied that 2 games ago, we were in position to be one point back, and we weren't losing routinely. In fact, all of that was meant to mock such logic.
The Wings have been routinely losing.

lose
win
lose
win
lose
win
win
lose
lose.

How is that not routine?

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:18 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
I don't believe I ever compared Detroit to St. Louis. I merely implied that 2 games ago, we were in position to be one point back, and we weren't losing routinely. In fact, all of that was meant to mock such logic.
9 games ago we were tied with them too.



Please. Do it for the kids.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:18 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Do you notice how the bottom six is always garbage in the playoffs?

Do you notice how Datsyuk and Zetterberg have to play like absolute monsters in the playoffs to have any chance of getting past the first round?

This team sucks in the playoffs. Their roster was capable of winning regular season games, but the roster is no longer good enough to win in the playoffs.

100 points and getting bounced in the 1st or 2nd round is worthless.

This team is not contending for the cup. They are closer to contending for Seth Jones.

Losing Stuart and Lidstrom and replacing them with nothing or Quincey is a sure fire bet to watching mediocre hockey.
There are 29 other franchises willing to commit mass murder for our playoff streak, no matter what they did in the playoffs. This is just spoiled Red Wings fan being spoiled Red Wings fan.

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02-05-2013, 09:18 PM
  #517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I am on Jman's side on this one.
we were 6th best
7th best
and 6th best team
in the league over those 3 years.

Lose 2 of our 3 best Dmen in the same year....

Ya, this year we are worse... we knew we would be... so now we sit around 15-17th in the league.

This had to happen before management rebuilds

So if you really want them to blow it up... they will have to miss the playoffs
And only a few points from falling another 1-4 spots each of those years. This isn't to say those seasons were bad, but I think we'd clearly slipped from that top tier we're accustomed to occupying. The organization has slipped a bit in recent years, and it appears to be on the verge of taking another slide this season.

At some point we are going to have to stop stockpiling mediocre vets and either give the prospects a shot or move them for established talent.

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02-05-2013, 09:18 PM
  #518
BinCookin
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
I think I speak for most of "this" side when I say missing playoffs is fine as long as we are losing with the kids getting some time in with the likes of Datsyuk, Zetterberg, etc. Getting some of their work ethic and approach to the game to rub off on the likes of Tatar, Nyquist, Smith, etc. is crucial. And we should be giving them a little bit of responsibility (Smith was getting some special teams time, thankfully). Why bother narrowly missing the playoffs with Bertuzzi on Datsyuks wing when a guy like Nyquist could be trying to replicate some of Datsyuk's work and learn from one of the best players in the league?
I agree with you.

I just know that the DRW are patient... They will give the "veterans" (the guys we are ragging on all day) half of this season to try to turn it around. If and when they don't and we look to be missing the playoffs at the deadline.... watch KH make some moves. I am just saying, we all see it coming, but their decisions are made slower than ours... as it should be.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:18 PM
  #519
detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Babcock is just begging KH to fire him. I can't really think of one positive decision he's done this year.
Holland firing Babcock is akin to Holland making a trade involving core players - Its not going to happen.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:19 PM
  #520
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
The Wings have been routinely losing.

lose
win
lose
win
lose
win
win
Lose
Lose


How is that not routine?
Up until this swoon, we had not been losing routinely. We had won more games than lost.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:19 PM
  #521
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This isn't a rebuilding year...this is still a veteran-laden team with several players 30 and older. I don't anticipate Holland moving a bunch of players, and I doubt there will be a massive infusion of youth mid-season, so this is basically a wasted year that accomplished nothing from any standpoint aside from Smith and maybe Lash gettinfg some experience.

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02-05-2013, 09:20 PM
  #522
WingedWheel1987
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
There are 29 other franchises willing to commit mass murder for our playoff streak, no matter what they did in the playoffs. This is just spoiled Red Wings fan being spoiled Red Wings fan.
This has nothing to do with being spoiled. It has to do with the fact that for three years, the concerns have been growing and nothing has been done to address those concerns.

It finally culminated with the 2012-2013 Red Wings.

Who gives a **** about 21 years of making the playoffs? Who in the NHL would currently trade the Wings roster with their roster?

It's a short list.........very short.

2007-2008 Wings were an absolute powerhouse.
2012-2013 Wings are the brain child of Ray Charles and Helen Keller.

Wings lost to Nashville last year with Stuart and Lidstrom.

This year they dont have either of those players. They are a far worse team than last year. A team that got annihilated in the first round.

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02-05-2013, 09:21 PM
  #523
BinCookin
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
The kid doesn't really get logic. Kinda pointless to talk to him.
I think his positivity could rub off on a few people even if you disagree with his "assessment"

I defend the last 3 years with him. This year however...

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02-05-2013, 09:21 PM
  #524
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And only a few points from falling another 1-4 spots each of those years. This isn't to say those seasons were bad, but I think we'd clearly slipped from that top tier we're accustomed to occupying. The organization has slipped a bit in recent years, and it appears to be on the verge of taking another slide this season.

At some point we are going to have to stop stockpiling mediocre vets and either give the prospects a shot or move them for established talent.
Are other teams not allowed to get better?

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02-05-2013, 09:22 PM
  #525
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I agree with you.

I just know that the DRW are patient... They will give the "veterans" (the guys we are ragging on all day) half of this season to try to turn it around. If and when they don't and we look to be missing the playoffs at the deadline.... watch KH make some moves. I am just saying, we all see it coming, but their decisions are made slower than ours... as it should be.
The problem is, who do they get and what will they cost? No point in screwing up the future when there is little chance to be good enough short term.

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