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Game 9 | Calgary Flames @ Detroit Red Wings | 7:30 PM EST | FS-D (HD)

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:24 PM
  #526
Big Poppa Puck
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This team is atrocious right now. Can't even beat the doormats of the league.

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02-05-2013, 09:24 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
Are other teams not allowed to get better?
Are fans not allowed to criticize obviously bad moves they disagreed with at the time?

Look shortstop, the old spoiled Wings fan adage isn't working. I can handle a bad season, it's the way it's happening that most people have a problem with. Many easily takeable steps could have been taken to alleviate the fall we are about to experience in a few years, and so far management still seems to be in denial. People who live mediocre lives may champion being ok with mediocrity, but winners think of these people as losers. Structural losing is acceptable, delaying the inevitable and making it worse in the long run isnt.

The proper steps to be taken aren't being taken. I've said repeatedly I still think we will probably make the playoffs. It's the next few years when Datsyuk heads out to Russia I am worried about.

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02-05-2013, 09:25 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
I agree with you.

I just know that the DRW are patient... They will give the "veterans" (the guys we are ragging on all day) half of this season to try to turn it around. If and when they don't and we look to be missing the playoffs at the deadline.... watch KH make some moves. I am just saying, we all see it coming, but their decisions are made slower than ours... as it should be.
The problem is, guys like Bertuzzi, Cleary, Sammy, Quincey "turning things around" just makes them average players - it doesn't make them particularly effective players. Cleary has played 9 games, played ~16 minutes a game, and has ZERO points, despite getting PP time. Bert was effective in ONE game. And they've gotten older without anyone picking up their slack, so there's no telling if they're even going to get back to where they were last season.

At the very least, this team loses nothing by replacing, say, Miller and Cleary with Tatar and Nyquist, but we could gain a lot. I'd definitely take that chance this season.

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02-05-2013, 09:25 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Ah, so THAT'S where I saw that. At least you're not one to use small sample sizes in an argument... oh.... wait a minute....



We are a total of 9 games into the season. That probably doesn't qualify as a large sample size, right?

But... but... he can google the definition of a word he took out of context!

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02-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #530
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
There are 29 other franchises willing to commit mass murder for our playoff streak, no matter what they did in the playoffs. This is just spoiled Red Wings fan being spoiled Red Wings fan.
What's the value of that playoff streak? How many cups can we cash that in for at the chucky cheese prize stand? The playoff steak is meaningless it was only fun when we were actual contenders for the cup in the playoffs each year. You know who else had a playoff streak? The Blues and we mock them whenever the brag on it.

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02-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #531
JmanWingsFan
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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
Ah, so THAT'S where I saw that. At least you're not one to use small sample sizes in an argument... oh.... wait a minute....



We are a total of 9 games into the season. That probably doesn't qualify as a large sample size, right?
So why are you complaining about this team? We're only 9 games in. Small sample size for such an indictment.

If you haven't realized it by now, I've been using your own logic against you to show how silly all this criticism has been. But apparently none of you realized this.

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02-05-2013, 09:26 PM
  #532
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Almost 20% of the season is over. (18.75%) If the Wings play like they have for the next 20%, you need to realistically start thinking about drafting in the lottery. The margin for error simply does not exist in a 48 game season. The only thing that might change with this team is Datsyuk to heat up, but that's about it. That might be good enough to squeeze into the playoffs as an 8th seed, but i would much rather have the opportunity to draft Seth Jones.

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02-05-2013, 09:27 PM
  #533
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Detroit has scored first 3 out of 9 games. There's a problem.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:27 PM
  #534
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
So why are you complaining about this team? We're only 9 games in. Small sample size for such an indictment.
Because when you're a mediocre team the year before, have aging stars, and have a massive exodus in talent, you're probably going to be worse.

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02-05-2013, 09:27 PM
  #535
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I think I need to take a break watching Wings games. It's honestly depressing lol

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:28 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
You don't know squat what has gone down behind the doors. You don't know how much effort Holland has put into this team. All you know is that there was an effort and that we were left without improvement. It's like you edict the shady man with the 8 millimeter for committing the murder without having any evidence. Just that there was a guy with a gun and a dead guy. Terrible reasoning.
And you do know?

The facts speak for themselves. This team is worse than last years team. Ken Holland will get the credit or the blame.

He could have allowed the rookies to play last year and give them more experience for this year with no Stuart or Lidstrom. Instead, Smith is playing his rookie year with no training camp or Lidstrom to mentor him.

Nyquist is rotting in the AHL with Cleary taking years off of my life with every shift he takes.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:28 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Almost 20% of the season is over. (18.75%) If the Wings play like they have for the next 20%, you need to realistically start thinking about drafting in the lottery. The margin for error simply does not exist in a 48 game season. The only thing that might change with this team is Datsyuk to heat up, but that's about it. That might be good enough to squeeze into the playoffs as an 8th seed, but i would much rather have the opportunity to draft Seth Jones.
Cool. I would rather draft in the lottery than ne a fringe playoof team wmd draft late.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:30 PM
  #538
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Um, there's a large contingent of people here who recognize that its useless playing offensive youngsters in the NHL if they're going to be stuck playing with grinders.
No there isn't.

Jiri Hudler scored 42 points in 81 games in his second full season. He was 9th among regular forwards in ESTOI. Most fans agreed with the idea that he should stay as a 3/4 tweener the next season, rather than getting more ice time. Hudler scored 57 points the next year.

There's a large contingent of people here who want the team to be younger and want the prospects to magically be on the team succeeding. This is obvious by the number of people who believed that Nyquist was better than Hudler at the beginning of last season, and that he is now, etc. If that were true, Nyquist would be on the team. I hate to break it to you, but just because he's a really good prospect who has looked good in limited time, it does not mean he's a legit top-line player who can carry his own line.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:30 PM
  #539
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
And only a few points from falling another 1-4 spots each of those years. This isn't to say those seasons were bad, but I think we'd clearly slipped from that top tier we're accustomed to occupying. The organization has slipped a bit in recent years, and it appears to be on the verge of taking another slide this season.

At some point we are going to have to stop stockpiling mediocre vets and either give the prospects a shot or move them for established talent.
agreed. I think it will be this year.

I just disagree with those saying we are "calgary" because they have missed the playoffs for 3 straight years.

We are both declining, but its quite clear our talent level is much better than theirs.

But this is the time for us to realize changes are upon us.

I think by deadline KH will trade off some bottom 6 guys... at least i hope he does

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02-05-2013, 09:30 PM
  #540
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Cool. I would rather draft in the lottery than ne a fringe playoof team wmd draft late.
I wouldn't mind either. But, like myself and others have said, I'd rather be a lottery team and have our "future core players" get valuable experience in the process.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:31 PM
  #541
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I can't be the only one who lold in real life when Eva came in blasting the Hudler stats

Edit: Not that I disagree with it, just reminded me of the good old days

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02-05-2013, 09:32 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
No there isn't.

Jiri Hudler scored 42 points in 81 games in his second full season. He was 9th among regular forwards in ESTOI. Most fans agreed with the idea that he should stay as a 3/4 tweener the next season, rather than getting more ice time. Hudler scored 57 points the next year.

There's a large contingent of people here who want the team to be younger and want the prospects to magically be on the team succeeding. This is obvious by the number of people who believed that Nyquist was better than Hudler at the beginning of last season, and that he is now, etc. If that were true, Nyquist would be on the team. I hate to break it to you, but just because he's a really good prospect who has looked good in limited time, it does not mean he's a legit top-line player who can carry his own line.
Brendan Smith should have been playing in the NHL last year. Talent clearly isnt the only factor in earning a roster spot on the Winged Wheel.

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #543
Z40
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
What's the value of that playoff streak? How many cups can we cash that in for at the chucky cheese prize stand? The playoff steak is meaningless it was only fun when we were actual contenders for the cup in the playoffs each year. You know who else had a playoff streak? The Blues and we mock them whenever the brag on it.
I agree. The streak means nothing if we are not contenders. I would rather play our young guys and see what happens. If we don't make the playoffs, at least they get NHL experience under their belts, then in a couple of years we can be consistent contenders again. Forget a 1st round playoff exit with a bunch of has-beens just so we can hold on to "The Streak."

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02-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #544
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
No there isn't.

Jiri Hudler scored 42 points in 81 games in his second full season. He was 9th among regular forwards in ESTOI. Most fans agreed with the idea that he should stay as a 3/4 tweener the next season, rather than getting more ice time. Hudler scored 57 points the next year.

There's a large contingent of people here who want the team to be younger and want the prospects to magically be on the team succeeding. This is obvious by the number of people who believed that Nyquist was better than Hudler at the beginning of last season, and that he is now, etc. If that were true, Nyquist would be on the team. I hate to break it to you, but just because he's a really good prospect who has looked good in limited time, it does not mean he's a legit top-line player who can carry his own line.
I think its more that we want the kids to have more of a chance to show how good they are rather than letting the mediocre vets clog the process of player development.

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02-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #545
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
I can't be the only one who lold in real life when Eva came in blasting the Hudler stats
Didn't see that one coming

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Old
02-05-2013, 09:34 PM
  #546
BinCookin
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The problem is, who do they get and what will they cost? No point in screwing up the future when there is little chance to be good enough short term.
I was thinking just "dump them"

We already have their replacements in Nyq/Tatar

so 2 players "give" away for draft picks... or mid-level prospect..

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02-05-2013, 09:34 PM
  #547
GoAwayDanCleary
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If I'm Babcock I would've demanded Smith be playing in Detroit last year and st least Nyquist this year. If KH doesn't want to lose him then he better keep him happy.

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02-05-2013, 09:34 PM
  #548
Brick Top
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
You don't know squat what has gone down behind the doors. You don't know how much effort Holland has put into this team. All you know is that there was an effort and that we were left without improvement. It's like you edict the shady man with the 8 millimeter for committing the murder without having any evidence. Just that there was a guy with a gun and a dead guy. Terrible reasoning.
Ok, now I'm confused. Are you saying that it's Kenny with the gun, having murdered the team's offseason and call-ups? Or is it Cleary with the gun, murdering our offense and PP every time he's on the ice? Babcock in the library with the 8 mm gun (left field choice of weapon btw- much more rare than the usual 9 mm), killing our prospects' chances to improve by banishing them to play with Abby?

So many questions, and only so much beer left to help me sort through the answers.

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02-05-2013, 09:36 PM
  #549
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
And you do know?
None of us know. Therefore none of us have a right to criticize him for things we don't know.

Quote:
The facts speak for themselves. This team is worse than last years team. Ken Holland will get the credit or the blame.
Ken Holland couldn't keep Lidstrom from retiring and Brad Stuart from returning home.


Quote:
He could have allowed the rookies to play last year and give them more experience for this year with no Stuart or Lidstrom. Instead, Smith is playing his rookie year with no training camp or Lidstrom to mentor him.
There wasn't any room on last years roster because people were signed 2 years ago when some of those prospects weren't even pro yet. Smith likely gets benched since they had Kindl ready to be given minutes and all they really needed was a 7th Dman.

Quote:
Nyquist is rotting in the AHL with Cleary taking years off of my life with every shift he takes.
Little known fact: Cleary wasn't always terrible. This has been a very recent development. But I guess it's Holland's fault for not being able to see into the future that in 2 years after scoring 26 goals, he'd fall off a cliff.

Give me a break.

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02-05-2013, 09:37 PM
  #550
Syckle78
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
I can't be the only one who lold in real life when Eva came in blasting the Hudler stats
Gotta give him credit though he tied Huds into the convo like a pro. Ha ha

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