HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Fantasy Hockey Talk > All Time Draft
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
All Time Draft Fantasy league where players of the past and present meet.

ATD 2013 - Draft Thread III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-11-2013, 04:20 PM
  #626
Hobnobs
Pinko
 
Hobnobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Country: Sweden
Posts: 3,457
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
IMO, Markus Naslund is a much better player than Roberts, though obviously he doesn't fill the same role.

Nice job putting Naslund and Forsberg together. Normally, I don't care about junior hockey one bit in these things, but the skill sets of those two as adults do compliment each other quite well. Forsberg's "clutchness" does help out Naslunds "choking" too.
They did play senior hockey together too but in small sample sizes sadly.

Around 40ish games in the SEL and ofcourse the fiasco in the world cup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monster_Bertuzzi
Your team just went up a few notches in my book...
Thanks, I guess

Hobnobs is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:20 PM
  #627
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
That said... Sedin's points finishes (and V2 points) are pretty strong for a guy drafted now, right?
Yeah, I'm just looking at Sedin's Vs2 scoring and his trophy voting placements. Henrik now has two more top-10 Hart placements in addition to the trophy. The case for him at this point is pretty compelling.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:20 PM
  #628
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
I just checked, and theres a whopping 3 players with more points than H.Sedin since 2005...(Crosby, Thornton, Malkin).
St Louis has the exact same number of points (609) and 90 more goals, so I thinnk it's fairly safe to say he's been better offensively since 2005. St. Louis has had the benefit of great linemates, but so has Sedin.

Sedin outpoints Kovalchuk 609-590, but Kovalchuk out goals him 302-127. I'd take Kovalchuk as an offensive player. Kovalchuk also barely beats Henrik in PPG (1.05 to 1.04):

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Sedin is 9th in PPG among players who played at least 400 games (or at least 500 games) after the lockout. But, as they say, you don't help your team from the press box, and Henrik has been remarkably healthy.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:21 PM
  #629
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
For the 2nd year in a row , I'll select a player who proved he could be the main guy on his line and one of the good offensive weapon remaining in Helmut Balderis , RW

This time he'll be in a role that is more suited to him , which is to be the go-to-guy of a second line instead of being the 3rd wheel of a first line.





Quote:
But it is his performance that fans at the Garden will note most.

"He's got a lot of moves," said xxxxx. "He makes believe he's losing the puck, the defensemen comes up on him and gets too close, and then he controls the puck and pushes it between your legs."

A one-man give and go.

"Can he ever motor!" xxxxx said in admiration. "Oh, gee is he fast!"

Balderis plays the "off wing", that is, he is a left-handed shot playing the right side. He is the goal scorer. His center is the rangy, playmaking xxxxx, and his left wing is xxxxxx, a digger in the corners. Together, they are a classic combination, and they form the top Soviet line.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:22 PM
  #630
monster_bertuzzi
registered user
 
monster_bertuzzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,072
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
St Louis has the exact same number of points (609) and 90 more goals, so safe to say he's been better offensively since 2005.

Sedin outpoints Kovalchuk 609-590, but Kovalchuk out goals him 302-127. I'd take Kovalchuk as an offensive player. Kovalchuk also barely beats Henrik in PPG (1.05 to 1.04):

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

Sedin is 9th in PPG among players who played at least 400 games (or at least 500 games) after the lockout. But, as they say, you don't help your team from the press box, and Henrik has been remarkably healthy.
All fair points. His iron man streak is incredible though, keep in mind staying in the lineup also plays a part here as well.

monster_bertuzzi is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:25 PM
  #631
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
All fair points. His iron man streak is incredible though, keep in mind staying in the lineup also plays a part here as well.
I'm surprised to see this from a big fan of Eric Lindros.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:26 PM
  #632
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
IMO, Markus Naslund is a much better player than Roberts, though obviously he doesn't fill the same role.

Nice job putting Naslund and Forsberg together. Normally, I don't care about junior hockey one bit in these things, but the skill sets of those two as adults do compliment each other quite well. Forsberg's "clutchness" does help out Naslunds "choking" too.
It was real close....I like Roberts grit and nastiness although Naslund has some serious firepower. Apple and Oranges, I was waiting to see how things played out.

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:27 PM
  #633
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
HC Donbass selects Douglas Allen Mohns, D/LW.

Mohns will play LW with Mikita and Kurri and quaterback the first power play unit.

DoMakc is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:27 PM
  #634
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
For the 2nd year in a row , I'll select a player who proved he could be the main guy on his line and one of the good offensive weapon remaining in Helmut Balderis , RW

This time he'll be in a role that is more suited to him , which is to be the go-to-guy of a second line instead of being the 3rd wheel of a first line.



Another one from my short list.....the more I read about him the more I liked.

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:28 PM
  #635
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoMakc View Post
HC Donbass selects Douglas Allen Mohns, D/LW.

Mohns will play LW with Mikita and Kurri and quaterback the first power play unit.
.....um, do you guys have a back door to my hard drive?

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:34 PM
  #636
DoMakc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
.....um, do you guys have a back door to my hard drive?
Sure, how do you think I could draft Goodfellow 120 picks before you.


Last edited by DoMakc: 02-11-2013 at 04:40 PM.
DoMakc is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:35 PM
  #637
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Balderis is another guy who I think was a candidate for best offensive player at the time Bowie was chosen. There are a couple more guys for whom there is a viable argument.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:37 PM
  #638
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by domakc View Post
sure, how do you think i could draft goodfellow 120 picks for you.
i knew it!!!!

BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:38 PM
  #639
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,874
vCash: 500
I love it when a plan comes together.

The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select Vyacheslav Starshinov, C/LW

Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:39 PM
  #640
BenchBrawl
joueur de hockey
 
BenchBrawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 9,351
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Balderis is another guy who I think was a candidate for best offensive player at the time Bowie was chosen. There are a couple more guys for whom there is a viable argument.
Yeah but can they rock a mustache like Balderis? Don't think so.

BenchBrawl is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:40 PM
  #641
seventieslord
Moderator
 
seventieslord's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Regina, SK
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,762
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BubbaBoot View Post
Hunh?
I can't be the only one who thinks provost looks 85 in that pic...

Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
I skimmed over the majority of this,....... Failing to see your point.
Nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
I basically agree with this. I would take a guy who scores 30 goals and 40 assists over a guy who scores 20 goals and 50 assists, even if the second guy had higher assist finishes. For guys who played after WW2 (meaning that the NHL has close to the modern ratio of assists per goal), I don't look at assist finishes at all when evaluating the quality of a player.

Assist finishes are useful to know the kind of player a center is, but not the quality. Point finishes really do a much better job of showing overall offensive production.

That said... Sedin's points finishes (and V2 points) are pretty strong for a guy drafted now, right?
They're decent. They don't stand out as being bad.

Sturm, these Hart finishes you speak of are based on point production, and that is affected by the factors I outlined - so it's not like they transcend mere point counting, they arguably exacerbate it.

seventieslord is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:42 PM
  #642
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalyd Psycho View Post
I love it when a plan comes together.

The Minnesota Fighting Saints are pleased to select Vyacheslav Starshinov, C/LW
I tried to sell him as a C/LW 2 drafts ago, ended up finding very limited evidence that he could play LW, and was pretty much resigned to using him at C. I don't know why he's been listed as a C/LW since.

Good pick though if you can build around him (and getting Martin St Louis as his winger is definitely a very good step).

Edit: When I drafted Bowie last time, I thought his offensive abilities were probably pretty close to Starshinov.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 02-11-2013 at 04:50 PM.
TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:48 PM
  #643
Dreakmur
Registered User
 
Dreakmur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Orillia, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Balderis is another guy who I think was a candidate for best offensive player at the time Bowie was chosen. There are a couple more guys for whom there is a viable argument.
Agree with Balderis here. He's got a pretty insane skill set, but his career has a lot of questions too.

Dreakmur is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:49 PM
  #644
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post

Sturm, these Hart finishes you speak of are based on point production, and that is affected by the factors I outlined - so it's not like they transcend mere point counting, they arguably exacerbate it.
It took over 250 points but here it comes.

First dismissing my posts using GHL, which every GM in the ATD has used.

Secondly excusing Sedins Hart voting because "his votes were only due to points he scored and the system he played in"

Whats next? Charlie Conacher being a bargain basement 2nd liner..

markrander87 is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:51 PM
  #645
markrander87
Registered User
 
markrander87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Yeah, I'm just looking at Sedin's Vs2 scoring and his trophy voting placements. Henrik now has two more top-10 Hart placements in addition to the trophy. The case for him at this point is pretty compelling.
Would you mind posting these? I'm very curious.

markrander87 is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #646
Nalyd Psycho
Registered User
 
Nalyd Psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: No Bandwagon
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,874
vCash: 500
I plan on using Starshinov as a centre. Goal scoring centers are good value, Martin St Louis gets ful value out of goal scoring centers. It's a great fit IMO.

Might use him as an LW on the pp though.

Nalyd Psycho is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:55 PM
  #647
BubbaBoot
Registered User
 
BubbaBoot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Fenway
Country: Wallis & Futuna
Posts: 10,995
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I can't be the only one who thinks provost looks 85 in that pic...
He always reminded me of Rondo Hatton.


BubbaBoot is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 04:56 PM
  #648
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
Sturm, these Hart finishes you speak of are based on point production, and that is affected by the factors I outlined - so it's not like they transcend mere point counting, they arguably exacerbate it.
Disagree. Hart voting (at least recently) generally follows the best forwards on the best teams. Henrik has been rightly seen as being the driving force behind one of the best teams in the league. If he'd put up the same scoring finishes in Edmonton, he wouldn't have the same Hart results. As I believe that it is more valuable to be great for a great team than for a bad one, I don't have a problem with players like Henrik getting rewarded more for what they do than big scorers on garbage teams.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 05:01 PM
  #649
Sturminator
I voted for Kodos
 
Sturminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Egg, New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 7,386
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrander87 View Post
Would you mind posting these? I'm very curious.
Sure.

Henrik Sedin:
103, 95, 84, 75, 72, 71, 71
Hart: 1, 9, 10

Once he hit his stride, even Henrik's sub-peak seasons have been pretty good, passing the 70% threshhold. His three year peak at this point is simply very good. Not a lot of forwards who approach that at this point.

Sturminator is offline  
Old
02-11-2013, 05:06 PM
  #650
TheDevilMadeMe
Global Moderator
 
TheDevilMadeMe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brooklyn
Country: United States
Posts: 40,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
Disagree. Hart voting (at least recently) generally follows the best forwards on the best teams. Henrik has been rightly seen as being the driving force behind one of the best teams in the league. If he'd put up the same scoring finishes in Edmonton, he wouldn't have the same Hart results. As I believe that it is more valuable to be great for a great team than for a bad one, I don't have a problem with players like Henrik getting rewarded more for what they do than big scorers on garbage teams.
I think that Henrik winning the Hart over Crosby and Ovechkin because he got 3 more points than them (while many fewer goals than either and much less defensive work than Crosby) was a joke, but I don't want to fight that old battle again.

TheDevilMadeMe is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:52 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.