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Time to make Moves?? (Post trade proposals & rumors here)

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:32 PM
  #276
Sheva7
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I'm not suggesting the Isles should necessarily make the trade for O'Reilly, especially since I don't know a]what his asking price is in terms of salary and b]what Colorado's asking price is in terms of return. However, in terms of O'Reilly versus Okposo, I disagree that it's a lateral deal.

First, Okposo seems to have plateaued, or even possibly regressed, since his first full season in the league. His play has deteriorated to the point where it's almost every single GDT where Isles fans are harping on his play, and demanding he be traded instantly. O'Reilly, on the other hand, has continued to improve each and every season, culminating in a very impressive season last year. Their career trajectories are going in opposite directions.

Second, even if you remove offensive production from the equation, O'Reilly's 100% effort and defensive play is much better than the effort and defense Okposo brings. So even if both guys are struggling to put up points, O'Reilly's still going to be a big asset to the club, while Okposo will be (like he's currently) dead weight.

Third, and maybe most importantly, O'Reilly is a center. Even if two players are of equal ability, I would always, always go with the center having more value. It's just a more critical position to the success of a hockey club. With O'Reilly, the Isles suddenly have the ideal 1-2-3 punch down the middle, with Tavares as the all star #1, O'Reilly as the two-way #2, and Nielsen slotting in finally to a more comfortable defensive #3. I believe you'd see the Isles win more games with that setup, than currently having Nielsen as a #2 and AHL fodder Aucoin as your #3.

Thus, I really don't think it's overpayment or unreasonable to expect the Isles to have to add a decent prospect or pick to the package if it centered around Okposo for O'Reilly.
Agree 100%. ATM (and over the past 2 and half seasons) Okposo couldn't shine ROR's shoes.

Okposo + prospect (not Nino, Strome, Nelson, Reinhart, Dehaan, Nilsson or Poulin)

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02-14-2013, 03:41 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
EXACTLY!

I admit that ROR would be a bit enticing for the current team and we definitely have the cap space, but folks should not be acting like this kid is the second coming.

Who here has actually seen him play much?
I saw him 6-7 times last year - heck of a player. He does everything well, very smart player. Similar style to Okposo but much better offensively, defensively and is on an upward trajectory. O'Reilly played well in the WJC (same team as JT's MVP tourney), well in the WC and emerged as the #1C in COL, ahead of Duchene & Stastny last year (though Duchene was hurt).

The Isles once traded Connolly and Pyatt for Peca (5th and 8th overall - both 20 years old at the time, for a 28yr old Peca who had ONE prior season over 55 pts, scoring 56 in BUF)

The price-tag of Neiderreiter and Strome is pretty close to what the Isles paid for Peca and O'Reilly's just 22.

Prospects come with risk:
1) will they reach their max upside?
2) their value won't be realized for another 2 years at the earliest.

So as much as we like Nino's upside, there's no way another GM takes that as a "sure thing" in a potential trade.

We might think Okposo and Pedan is "fair" but if I'm COL I'm asking for Hamonic and Nino/Strome to start the negotiations. It's absurd to suggest the NYI can provide what they deem is "fair"

I think Hamonic for O'Reilly would get a deal done but no way the NYI make that deal. Besides, I think they will do all they can to sign him. Same as the NYI with Nino (keep him on Long Island)

Too bad Burke wasn't able to send Matt Frattin and Jessie Blacker for Kessel.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:42 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Sheva7 View Post
Agree 100%. ATM (and over the past 2 and half seasons) Okposo couldn't shine ROR's shoes.

Okposo + prospect (not Nino, Strome, Nelson, Reinhart, Dehaan, Nilsson or Poulin)
Okposo last year was pretty close to ROR production-wise. He's obviously gotten off to a rough start this year, but when his game comes around(which I'm confident that it will) I expect him to be an efficient 2nd line winger.

As far as the bolded goes, I don't think there is any way we could acquire ROR for Okposo and a prospect who is not on that list. Possibly if we include the 1st, but it would only be because we are on pace to have a top-2 or 3 pick. Since O'Reilly will probably change that a bit, it still might not be worth it for Colorado.

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02-14-2013, 03:45 PM
  #279
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Okposo is a terrible lazy player. We are not getting anything of value for him. Any team with at least one scout with at least one working eye will come back with a scouting report that says...

Soft
Bad in the corners
Dumb
Lazy

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02-14-2013, 03:48 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Sounds like Okposo.

He often sees his attacks ended in the corners, where he's edged out and brought to a halt by opponents, who then grab the puck and moves up the ice in the other direction.

So, ya, a cornerstone of sorts...
I don't think that's the type of "cornerstone" the Avs are looking for.

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Old
02-14-2013, 03:49 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I saw him 6-7 times last year - heck of a player. He does everything well, very smart player. Similar style to Okposo but much better offensively, defensively and is on an upward trajectory. O'Reilly played well in the WJC (same team as JT's MVP tourney), well in the WC and emerged as the #1C in COL, ahead of Duchene & Stastny last year (though Duchene was hurt).

The Isles once traded Connolly and Pyatt for Peca (5th and 8th overall - both 20 years old at the time, for a 28yr old Peca who had ONE prior season over 55 pts, scoring 56 in BUF)

The price-tag of Neiderreiter and Strome is pretty close to what the Isles paid for Peca and O'Reilly's just 22.

Prospects come with risk:
1) will they reach their max upside?
2) their value won't be realized for another 2 years at the earliest.

So as much as we like Nino's upside, there's no way another GM takes that as a "sure thing" in a potential trade.

We might think Okposo and Pedan is "fair" but if I'm COL I'm asking for Hamonic and Nino/Strome to start the negotiations. It's absurd to suggest the NYI can provide what they deem is "fair"

Too bad Burke wasn't able to send Matt Frattin and Jessie Blacker for Kessel.
The difference is Peca was a proven commodity. ROR had a great year last year, but he hasn't had a chance to prove whether or not he's for real. He could level out into a 30-40 pt. 3C for the rest of his career.

Personally, I think a Strome/Nino package is worth more than Connolly/Pyatt circa '01, but regardless I don't see the cost for O'Reilly coming out to two elite prospects. A solid young NHLer and a top prospect will probably be the asking price. Maybe a bit more. Okposo and Nelson should be enough to close in on a deal. Maybe add in one of our plethora of B or C level defense prospects(Pelech, Pedan, etc.).

No way in hell ROR will cost us Strome and Nino, and if it somehow does... I'm 100% sure Garth will walk away.

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02-14-2013, 04:00 PM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulinho View Post
Okposo is a terrible lazy player. We are not getting anything of value for him. Any team with at least one scout with at least one working eye will come back with a scouting report that says...

Soft
Bad in the corners
Dumb
Lazy
Let's not overreact after 13 games. Okposo's been a solid player his entire career. He's 24 years old and has eclipsed the 50-point mark once, as well as hit 24 goals in another year. While not superstar numbers, they shouldn't be looked at as mediocre either.

He's off to a rough start, but it doesn't mean he has no value around the league. I'm sure a good coach can look at him and see a kid that he can turn into a top-six power forward. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised to see him elevate his game soon, especially if he plays with Bailey.

IF Okposo were to be made available, I'm sure Garth would receive phone calls from the majority of NHL teams.

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02-14-2013, 04:03 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Okposo last year was pretty close to ROR production-wise. He's obviously gotten off to a rough start this year, but when his game comes around(which I'm confident that it will) I expect him to be an efficient 2nd line winger.

As far as the bolded goes, I don't think there is any way we could acquire ROR for Okposo and a prospect who is not on that list. Possibly if we include the 1st, but it would only be because we are on pace to have a top-2 or 3 pick. Since O'Reilly will probably change that a bit, it still might not be worth it for Colorado.
Production was close, but still, KO didn't start producing till the Isles dreams of making the PO's were over. It wasn't the first season he caught fire at the end either.

As for this year, he's been given quite a few chances to get his game in order.......

He's been on a line w/ JT = nothing happened
On a line w/ Frans and Grabs = nothing happened

i know its still very early...and maybe i need to be more patient...but if Snow can scoop this guy for KO + Prospect (without adding one of the prospects i mentioned earlier), i'd be happy

COL isn't exactly in a position of strength ATM, so ya never know. It may be possible (although not very probable lol).


Last edited by Sheva7: 02-14-2013 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
02-14-2013, 04:12 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
We might think Okposo and Pedan is "fair" but if I'm COL I'm asking for Hamonic and Nino/Strome to start the negotiations. It's absurd to suggest the NYI can provide what they deem is "fair"
I see what you mean, but there is no shot the AVs get a return like that.

COL does not have any leverage. How valuable can the guy be if the team that drafted him doesn't wanna keep him around? Thats what i'd be asking the Av's if they countered with Hammer + Strome.

It just doesn't add up. He's gonna go for a lot less than you think.

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02-14-2013, 04:53 PM
  #285
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Do isles have anything to realistically get ryan o'reilly?

Or is the concern more on defense?

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02-14-2013, 05:16 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheva7 View Post
I see what you mean, but there is no shot the AVs get a return like that.

COL does not have any leverage. How valuable can the guy be if the team that drafted him doesn't wanna keep him around? Thats what i'd be asking the Av's if they countered with Hammer + Strome.

It just doesn't add up. He's gonna go for a lot less than you think.
I think it will take Okposo and Nino to get ROR. And, I would do it. ROR is young, already proven that he can play shut down defensive center, and can set guys up. I would do this deal right now.

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02-14-2013, 05:27 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by beach View Post
I think it will take Okposo and Nino to get ROR. And, I would do it. ROR is young, already proven that he can play shut down defensive center, and can set guys up. I would do this deal right now.
I'd do it

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02-14-2013, 05:59 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by beach View Post
I think it will take Okposo and Nino to get ROR. And, I would do it. ROR is young, already proven that he can play shut down defensive center, and can set guys up. I would do this deal right now.
I think Nelson should be the guy to go, not Nino. Plus if Okposo is one of the pieces, I'm assuming Colorado would want a guy who can play center as the 2nd piece instead of two wingers. No way would the Isles include Strome, so Nelson would be the best fit IMO.

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02-14-2013, 10:31 PM
  #289
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
I think Nelson should be the guy to go, not Nino. Plus if Okposo is one of the pieces, I'm assuming Colorado would want a guy who can play center as the 2nd piece instead of two wingers. No way would the Isles include Strome, so Nelson would be the best fit IMO.
i don't know if colorado would need a centre back or not. with duchene and stastny, they have two quality centres.

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02-14-2013, 10:42 PM
  #290
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Even though we won tonight, I still want to see changes. Apparently since Wang won't make any hockey trades I would like to see the following.

-Waive Finley
-Waive Reasoner
-Call up Nino Niederreiter
-Call up Brock Nelson

Moulson-Tavares-Boyes
Bailey-Nielsen-Grabner
Niederreiter-Nelson-Ullstrom
Martin-Cizikas-McDonald

Visnovsky-Strait
Hamonic-MacDonald
Streit-Hickey

Scratches- Okposo, Aucoin, Boulton

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02-15-2013, 06:21 AM
  #291
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I'm not suggesting the Isles should necessarily make the trade for O'Reilly, especially since I don't know a]what his asking price is in terms of salary and b]what Colorado's asking price is in terms of return. However, in terms of O'Reilly versus Okposo, I disagree that it's a lateral deal.

First, Okposo seems to have plateaued, or even possibly regressed, since his first full season in the league. His play has deteriorated to the point where it's almost every single GDT where Isles fans are harping on his play, and demanding he be traded instantly. O'Reilly, on the other hand, has continued to improve each and every season, culminating in a very impressive season last year. Their career trajectories are going in opposite directions.

Second, even if you remove offensive production from the equation, O'Reilly's 100% effort and defensive play is much better than the effort and defense Okposo brings. So even if both guys are struggling to put up points, O'Reilly's still going to be a big asset to the club, while Okposo will be (like he's currently) dead weight.

Third, and maybe most importantly, O'Reilly is a center. Even if two players are of equal ability, I would always, always go with the center having more value. It's just a more critical position to the success of a hockey club. With O'Reilly, the Isles suddenly have the ideal 1-2-3 punch down the middle, with Tavares as the all star #1, O'Reilly as the two-way #2, and Nielsen slotting in finally to a more comfortable defensive #3. I believe you'd see the Isles win more games with that setup, than currently having Nielsen as a #2 and AHL fodder Aucoin as your #3.

Thus, I really don't think it's overpayment or unreasonable to expect the Isles to have to add a decent prospect or pick to the package if it centered around Okposo for O'Reilly.
Good points SofK.

That's why the suggested deal was Okposo and Persson for ROR.

However, I would say that I hardly think NHL teams will be looking at what fans at GDTs are writing about a player they're souring on. They'll be scouting the guys they might be interested in. Okposo is the type of player where a number of other teams could possibly feel they could make more of him than the NYIsles do. One could make an argument that he has been daunted by years of being a promising player for a really lousy club. Maybe he needs a change of scenario to blossom? He's not 30 either, although he will turn 25 in April.

But I agree that ROR would, from an age and position standpoint, have to be considered to have more value, even if he hasn't really ripped anything up yet. He went from 26 to 26 to 55 points, also on a bit of a bottom-feeder where lots of other guys failed miserably. Although nothing to get worried about, he too has been a minus player the past two years.

So he's not ALL that... But the guy and his agent obviously feel he's already Jordan Staal.

I guess for Colorado, the biggest questions are
A) Do they feel they can ever sign him to a deal they see as being reasonable?
B) Will they find a taker who would be willing to give him the desired 4.5-5 million per year?
C) Can they find any other teams willing to offer more than a guy like Okposo (and a minor prospect), who can play now and still may have some yet undiscovered upside?

It's a bit moot though. I can't see Snow picking up a guy who has those contract demands in light of Nelson and Strome maybe/likely both being here already next season.

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02-15-2013, 06:23 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by ziggy7716 View Post
Even though we won tonight, I still want to see changes. Apparently since Wang won't make any hockey trades I would like to see the following.

-Waive Finley
-Waive Reasoner
-Call up Nino Niederreiter
-Call up Brock Nelson

Moulson-Tavares-Boyes
Bailey-Nielsen-Grabner
Niederreiter-Nelson-Ullstrom
Martin-Cizikas-McDonald

Visnovsky-Strait
Hamonic-MacDonald
Streit-Hickey

Scratches- Okposo, Aucoin, Boulton
I thought Finley looked very good last night. He's the type of player that has to keep his game simple to have success. I honestly don't think Hickey could have handled Boyle last night. Finley was on him like stink on $hit!

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02-15-2013, 06:34 AM
  #293
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by redbull View Post
I saw him 6-7 times last year - heck of a player. He does everything well, very smart player. Similar style to Okposo but much better offensively, defensively and is on an upward trajectory. O'Reilly played well in the WJC (same team as JT's MVP tourney), well in the WC and emerged as the #1C in COL, ahead of Duchene & Stastny last year (though Duchene was hurt).

The Isles once traded Connolly and Pyatt for Peca (5th and 8th overall - both 20 years old at the time, for a 28yr old Peca who had ONE prior season over 55 pts, scoring 56 in BUF)

The price-tag of Neiderreiter and Strome is pretty close to what the Isles paid for Peca and O'Reilly's just 22.

Prospects come with risk:
1) will they reach their max upside?
2) their value won't be realized for another 2 years at the earliest.

So as much as we like Nino's upside, there's no way another GM takes that as a "sure thing" in a potential trade.

We might think Okposo and Pedan is "fair" but if I'm COL I'm asking for Hamonic and Nino/Strome to start the negotiations. It's absurd to suggest the NYI can provide what they deem is "fair"

I think Hamonic for O'Reilly would get a deal done but no way the NYI make that deal. Besides, I think they will do all they can to sign him. Same as the NYI with Nino (keep him on Long Island)

Too bad Burke wasn't able to send Matt Frattin and Jessie Blacker for Kessel.
OK RB, I'll take your scouting report. I'm not as in the know with respect to ROR.

In light of that info, ROR's upswing and contract demands, and the fact that Cizikas is arriving (shutdown center in the near future?) while Nelson and Strome could/should be here next season, I'd say it'd be a poor, poor move for the Isles to offer up something like Nino + Nelson for a 22 year old who thinks he should be getting JT money at this point.

Only looks like a deal that should be made if Colorado is willing to accept pieces that the Isles are not really banking their future on (even if they are good pieces). At this point, I'd say Nelson, Nino and Strome are - by far - our most promising forward prospects and it has to be in the Islanders' best interest to see what they can do here before even entertaining thoughts of moving them.

By the way, never saw Connolly and Pyatt in the same light as the aforementioned three. Back in the day, they looked like kids from a weak draft who were being rushed to the show, even if Connolly sometimes showed some puck skills that just can't be taught.

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02-15-2013, 06:37 AM
  #294
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Production was close, but still, KO didn't start producing till the Isles dreams of making the PO's were over. It wasn't the first season he caught fire at the end either.

As for this year, he's been given quite a few chances to get his game in order.......

He's been on a line w/ JT = nothing happened
On a line w/ Frans and Grabs = nothing happened

i know its still very early...and maybe i need to be more patient...but if Snow can scoop this guy for KO + Prospect (without adding one of the prospects i mentioned earlier), i'd be happy

COL isn't exactly in a position of strength ATM, so ya never know. It may be possible (although not very probable lol).
Definitely agree that Okposo has been a disappointment. He's spent several years not getting off to a good start. I'd almost say he's not really been the same since the shoulder injury, but there were times at the end of last season where he looked great.

I still think that a deal revolving around Okposo for Hjalmarsson could be beneficial for both clubs and both players.

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02-15-2013, 08:33 AM
  #295
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i like ROR, but not at $5 mil a year....

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02-15-2013, 08:36 AM
  #296
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I thought Finley looked very good last night. He's the type of player that has to keep his game simple to have success. I honestly don't think Hickey could have handled Boyle last night. Finley was on him like stink on $hit!
i'm all for keeping Finley too. for a while anyway. we may lose Vis and Streit soon, and Finley will be needed.

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02-15-2013, 09:27 AM
  #297
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-Waive Reasoner
-I believe that Joensuu will be given a shot at the big club, soon. I'd rather see him than Nelson or Niederreiter right now.
-I would be shoppng Vis, Streit, and Nabby right NOW, assuming that they don't wish to re-sign with us. I would be shooting for some picks, and maybe a tough, cheap defenceman (Matt Pelech, maybe?) to fill in a bottom role. There to protect our young guys.
-I would be tempted to keep Aucoin and McDonald up all year. I'm certain they would have to pass through waivers, and would not want to lose them. I would love to have them for next year on BPort.
-while Boyes is playing decent, try and get a 3rd rounder for him. Or package him with the other guys on the way out. It's tempting to keep him, because he's doing all right, but he's just too soft for my liking.

Lineup today
Moulson-Tavares-Boyes
Bailey-Nielsen-Grabner
Joensuu-Cizikas-Ullstrom
Martin-Aucoin-McDonald
Boulton

Visnovsky-Strait
Hamonic-MacDonald
Streit-Hickey
Carkner

Nabby, Dipi

Lineup to finish season
Moulson-Tavares-Ullstrom
Bailey-Nielsen-Grabner
Joensuu-Cizikas-Okposo
Martin-Aucoin-McDonald
Boulton

Hamonic-MacDonald
Strait-Hickey
Pelech/Carkner/Finley-Donovan

Dipi, Nilsson/Poulin

*I hope that we can turn Vis, Streit, Nabby, Boyes into Pelech, 2 2nd rounders and a 3rd, for 2013 draft.

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02-15-2013, 09:46 AM
  #298
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Definitely agree that Okposo has been a disappointment. He's spent several years not getting off to a good start. I'd almost say he's not really been the same since the shoulder injury, but there were times at the end of last season where he looked great.

I still think that a deal revolving around Okposo for Hjalmarsson could be beneficial for both clubs and both players.
Okposo may be more on the move because of the numbers. His cap hit almost matches his salary next season. The following two seasons his cap hit is LESS than his cash paid salary. That's the opposite of what Wang wants. It's also great for a cap ceiling spending team that wants the lower cap hit. To me this will be a Wang factor in moving him.

Separately, I combed the cap hit vs cash payout of players for next season. Not much of the Viz types that Wang loves. So it will be interesting how things play out.

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02-15-2013, 11:21 AM
  #299
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If Snow believes ROR is a legit 1-2 Center, with leadership skills worthy of the salary he is asking for, then trading Okposo and Nino is a no brainer. It would immediately make the team better.

Personally I would be dangling Streit to the Sens in hope of grabbing Bishop. Or be greedy and try and sweeten the pot for Lehner. They also need a D that is physical and plays in the defensive zone. Maybe Reinhart can emerge to be that...never helps to have alot of these guys on the team.

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02-15-2013, 11:26 AM
  #300
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Grabner in play....maybe for ROR?

@BDGallof

FEARLESS PREDICTION: If #isles make a trade up front @ forward, won't be Okposo, Bailey. Will be Michael Grabner. don't say i didn't warn u

The Fourth Period links the NYI to ROR, it would make sense, Garth and Cappy both view Nielson as a true 3C.

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/buf130214.html

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