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Time to make Moves?? (Post trade proposals & rumors here)

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Old
02-23-2013, 04:15 PM
  #576
19NYSports91
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Originally Posted by Richie Daggers Crime View Post
O'Reilly would be a much better addition than Stephen Weiss.... even at the cost of assets. Weiss is a nice enough player, but he doesn't really get you anywhere that having Nielsen in that spot wouldn't.
Erroneous, he's playing on the first line when he would be a perfect 2nd line center. Frans Nielsen is playing on the 2nd line when he would be a perfect 3rd line center. Big difference.

2008-2009- 1st on his team in points
2009-2010- 1st on his team in points
2010-2011- 1st on his team in points
2011-2012- 2nd on his team in points

Doing all that while being the best defensive forward on his team. How is O'Reilly a much better option even at the cost of assets? Because he's 21 years old? He had 1 good year so far, he also played with Landeskog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMorxtRECKo

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02-23-2013, 04:47 PM
  #577
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Erroneous, he's playing on the first line when he would be a perfect 2nd line center. Frans Nielsen is playing on the 2nd line when he would be a perfect 3rd line center. Big difference.

2008-2009- 1st on his team in points
2009-2010- 1st on his team in points
2010-2011- 1st on his team in points
2011-2012- 2nd on his team in points

Doing all that while being the best defensive forward on his team. How is O'Reilly a much better option even at the cost of assets? Because he's 21 years old? He had 1 good year so far, he also played with Landeskog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMorxtRECKo
First, Stephen Weiss is not overrated - teams will be fighting tooth and nail to sign him as an UFA this summer. If we were able to sign Weiss and didn't have to give up prospects - yes then forget O'Reilly (who I think has the potential to be much better).

BUT...

Why would he sign with us? Weiss will have plenty of more attractive offers.
Until the move to Brooklyn (and IMO a real coach is on the bench) no top free agents will want to come here.

In the end, I believe O'Reilly is worth the top prospects - I would give up Donovan, Nino, and Okposo for him. I know it hurts to see some of those guys go, but I think we still get the best player out of the lot.

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02-23-2013, 04:54 PM
  #578
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Originally Posted by SI View Post
First, Stephen Weiss is not overrated - teams will be fighting tooth and nail to sign him as an UFA this summer. If we were able to sign Weiss and didn't have to give up prospects - yes then forget O'Reilly (who I think has the potential to be much better).

BUT...

Why would he sign with us? Weiss will have plenty of more attractive offers.
Until the move to Brooklyn (and IMO a real coach is on the bench) no top free agents will want to come here.

In the end, I believe O'Reilly is worth the top prospects - I would give up Donovan, Nino, and Okposo for him. I know it hurts to see some of those guys go, but I think we still get the best player out of the lot.
What has he done to prove he is worth Donovan, Nino, and Okposo? I think that is a big overpayment especially for a guy who only did it for 1 year and wants 5 mil per.

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02-23-2013, 06:05 PM
  #579
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
What has he done to prove he is worth Donovan, Nino, and Okposo? I think that is a big overpayment especially for a guy who only did it for 1 year and wants 5 mil per.
O'Reilly as an 18 year old and 2nd rd. pick, He impressed in camp and made the Avalanche. O'Reilly played 81 games as a rookie - no benching, no watching and sitting from the press box... as an 18 yr old - 8 goals 18 asst and 26 points and was +6
What did Nino do in his first year as a pro. How about Bailey? They were rushed, right? O'Reilly Rushed? HIs performance alone must tell you something about the kid's character and in ice performance.

O'Reilly as a 19 year old scored 13 goals and 26 points... greater responsibility and more ice time.

And as a 20 year old - he scored 55 pts... played top minutes averaging 20 minutes a game and was -1 on a bad team and led the league in takeaways.

What have our guys done? AHL allstars... Nino 1 point in 55 NHL games and -25...
Okposo? He has already shown what he is and what he ain't - he is not a top line RW. He is a top 6 forward who will play on the 2nd unit PP, but won't kill penalties and give you a stat line of about
20/25/45 - maybe 50. I would resign Boyes and wait for the likes of Nelson, Kabanov, Sundstrom, and Strome to arrive. O'Reilly replaces Okposo on the roster and fills in 2C role. O'Reilly - can be thrown out there every night - against the top C's in the game: Crosby, Staal, Richards, Stamkos... and give you the same output in points, kill penalties, be a leader and an instant fan favorite.

And what will Donovan give us - is he a top pairing d man? No. Is he top 4? Yes. I can't see Donovan standing in the way of getting O'Reilly in an Isles jersey and not in a Rangers Jersey. Donovan hurts since Reinhart is about two seasons away and De Haan is made of glass.

We have prospects that fill in Nino's prospect value - hell most likely another top 10 pick this coming June.

MM/JT - Strome
MG/ROR - Boyes
Bails/Fransie - Ullstrom
Martin/Cizikas - Joensuu/McDonald

with Nelson, Kabanov, Lee, Sundstrom on their way.

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02-24-2013, 01:26 AM
  #580
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
Erroneous, he's playing on the first line when he would be a perfect 2nd line center. Frans Nielsen is playing on the 2nd line when he would be a perfect 3rd line center. Big difference.
There is a difference, true. I don't believe it's a big enough one to commit to 5+ years of Stephen Weiss as an UFA. O'Reilly is already close to, if not equal to Weiss in terms of production, provides a greater physical presence (which this team desperately needs) and still has upside, where Weiss is a finished product and is probably in the latter part of his prime.

I'm not advocating getting one or the other, but if someone made me choose, I'd pick O'Reilly no question. They'll both likely be asking for similar salary and term.

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02-24-2013, 09:07 AM
  #581
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i was reading the game day thread (nyi vs. buf) about how people appreciate mcdonald because of how he works hard, is physical etc. really, i would say he is not a national hockey league player, but his willingness to play this way endears him to fans. fans appreciate hard working guys who go the extra mile to have the team win.

people feel the same about matt martin.

it is yet another reason to love john tavares. he is an amazing talent AND he works hard.

people feel the same about hamonic.

where am i going with this? this is just one more post to discuss how much people would love ryan o'reilly. i mean, just imagine...a heart and soul guy who can chip in on offence as well. a heart and soul guy who you want on the ice in the last minute of the game. a heart and soul guy who you send out for big faceoffs. his popularity could rival jt's for goodness sake because he plays the game the way fans beg some to play it! guys who aren't willing to lay it all on the line like okposo with the big club and niederreiter with the farm club (read the most recent story of the swiss miss doing EVERYTHING in his power to avoid sticking up for himself and his teammates against springfield in the bst thread), have value despite the fact that they don't seem to want to go the extra mile to help the team win. how anyone can NOT want these guys dangled to tempt colorado is beyond me. bring in o'reilly and people won't even remember who the hell kyle okposo or nino niederreiter even were.

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02-24-2013, 09:50 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by islandermaniac View Post
i was reading the game day thread (nyi vs. buf) about how people appreciate mcdonald because of how he works hard, is physical etc. really, i would say he is not a national hockey league player, but his willingness to play this way endears him to fans. fans appreciate hard working guys who go the extra mile to have the team win.

people feel the same about matt martin.

it is yet another reason to love john tavares. he is an amazing talent AND he works hard.

people feel the same about hamonic.

where am i going with this? this is just one more post to discuss how much people would love ryan o'reilly. i mean, just imagine...a heart and soul guy who can chip in on offence as well. a heart and soul guy who you want on the ice in the last minute of the game. a heart and soul guy who you send out for big faceoffs. his popularity could rival jt's for goodness sake because he plays the game the way fans beg some to play it! guys who aren't willing to lay it all on the line like okposo with the big club and niederreiter with the farm club (read the most recent story of the swiss miss doing EVERYTHING in his power to avoid sticking up for himself and his teammates against springfield in the bst thread), have value despite the fact that they don't seem to want to go the extra mile to help the team win. how anyone can NOT want these guys dangled to tempt colorado is beyond me. bring in o'reilly and people won't even remember who the hell kyle okposo or nino niederreiter even were.
This team doesn't need anymore intangibles, they need talent.

ROR isn't worth the asking price in my opinion.

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02-24-2013, 10:23 AM
  #583
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Originally Posted by KyleBailey12 View Post
This team doesn't need anymore intangibles, they need talent.

ROR isn't worth the asking price in my opinion.
you must be joking. this team absolutely needs an infusion of heart and soul. also, o'reilly addresses your concern for talent as well. why can't he be talented AND driven? i know, it is hard for isles fans to believe that such players exist given the state of the current roster but o'reilly is indeed an 'everything' player. he is absolutely worth a contract greater than what matt duchene signed for (2 years @ $3.5M per).

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02-24-2013, 11:06 AM
  #584
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So the Isles are going to trade for the restricted free agent Ryan O'Reily, give him the long term deal he wants, which would have an average annual average value between 3.5M to 5.5M, and ultimately make him the second highest player paid on the team, and close to Tavares value? I don't think so, not with Charles Wang writing the checks.

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02-24-2013, 11:14 AM
  #585
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Would anyone be interested in Ward plus for Okposo?

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02-24-2013, 11:26 AM
  #586
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Look at what the Isles gave up for Peca way back when. That's the return for O'Reilly.

The differences. Peca was older, but established. Isles knew what they were getting.

O'Reilly still is relatively unproven. Isles would be taking a risk, but he's a far younger player than Peca was at the time of the trade.

2 prospects w/good upside would do it.

I think Nino is off the table as is Donovan. Ditto for Strome.

If Nino did go, he'd be the centerpiece with a lesser prospect included (ie, Lee and his possible signing issues?).

Otherwise, I think you're looking at a Brock Nelson / de Haan type of package.

That would be my maximum... again, for a kid who's only performed 1 year at a high level.

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02-24-2013, 11:42 AM
  #587
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Look at what the Isles gave up for Peca way back when. That's the return for O'Reilly.

The differences. Peca was older, but established. Isles knew what they were getting.

O'Reilly still is relatively unproven. Isles would be taking a risk, but he's a far younger player than Peca was at the time of the trade.

2 prospects w/good upside would do it.

I think Nino is off the table as is Donovan. Ditto for Strome.

If Nino did go, he'd be the centerpiece with a lesser prospect included (ie, Lee and his possible signing issues?).

Otherwise, I think you're looking at a Brock Nelson / de Haan type of package.

That would be my maximum... again, for a kid who's only performed 1 year at a high level.
Agreed.

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02-24-2013, 12:50 PM
  #588
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Originally Posted by KyleBailey12 View Post
This team doesn't need anymore intangibles, they need talent.

ROR isn't worth the asking price in my opinion.
The team needs both and ROR is talent and intangibles - that's what you don't get.

I tired of the Bailey and Okposo's on this team - Maybe it is our fault as fans because the prospects we draft are the only hope we have as an organization and it is hard for us to let go of that hope.

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02-24-2013, 01:37 PM
  #589
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Originally Posted by SI View Post
The team needs both and ROR is talent and intangibles - that's what you don't get.

I tired of the Bailey and Okposo's on this team - Maybe it is our fault as fans because the prospects we draft are the only hope we have as an organization and it is hard for us to let go of that hope.
He's unproven talent though. I agree with your second paragraph. It's tough to let go of the guys you expected to build around.

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02-24-2013, 02:37 PM
  #590
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Look at what the Isles gave up for Peca way back when. That's the return for O'Reilly.

The differences. Peca was older, but established. Isles knew what they were getting.

O'Reilly still is relatively unproven. Isles would be taking a risk, but he's a far younger player than Peca was at the time of the trade.

2 prospects w/good upside would do it.

I think Nino is off the table as is Donovan. Ditto for Strome.

If Nino did go, he'd be the centerpiece with a lesser prospect included (ie, Lee and his possible signing issues?).

Otherwise, I think you're looking at a Brock Nelson / de Haan type of package.

That would be my maximum... again, for a kid who's only performed 1 year at a high level.
if the isles were going to put together a package similar to what they did for peca, niederreiter absolutely has to be involved. in connolly and pyatt, the isles sent buffalo two kids who were selected 5th and 8th overall, respectively. using that same framework, a deal could look like niederreiter and donovan, niederreiter and nelson, niederreiter and de haan, etc.

now, a deal doesn't have to look like that. the deal could be a player and a prospect. i think the player with the greatest value who could be dealt is okposo. he has the shiny 20 goal season that people crave already under his belt. if the avs are interested in okposo, and if niederreiter is the prospect selected to be a part of the deal, i hope the isles pull the trigger.

i believe he is proven. he is no one year wonder. all 3 of his seasons he has played well in all areas of the game. he is worth it.

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02-24-2013, 10:21 PM
  #591
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Total rehaul

I don't about you but after tonight's performance against the hurricanes I say FIRE THE WHOLE TEAM. KICK EVERY PLAYER TO THE CURB

up by 2 goals and they blow it. Completely inexcusable. Right now a group of 4 year-olds can defeat this team. they're all a bunch of stupid worthless hacks. they suck. I say bench the team for the rest of the season and draft a local high school team or get Lafontaine and the Royals to play instead. They'll play ten times better than this pathetic excuse for an NHL team

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02-24-2013, 10:51 PM
  #592
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I don't about you but after tonight's performance against the hurricanes I say FIRE THE WHOLE TEAM. KICK EVERY PLAYER TO THE CURB

up by 2 goals and they blow it. Completely inexcusable. Right now a group of 4 year-olds can defeat this team. they're all a bunch of stupid worthless hacks. they suck. I say bench the team for the rest of the season and draft a local high school team or get Lafontaine and the Royals to play instead. They'll play ten times better than this pathetic excuse for an NHL team
Thats your solution...really ?

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02-25-2013, 12:50 AM
  #593
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I don't about you but after tonight's performance against the hurricanes I say FIRE THE WHOLE TEAM. KICK EVERY PLAYER TO THE CURB

up by 2 goals and they blow it. Completely inexcusable. Right now a group of 4 year-olds can defeat this team. they're all a bunch of stupid worthless hacks. they suck. I say bench the team for the rest of the season and draft a local high school team or get Lafontaine and the Royals to play instead. They'll play ten times better than this pathetic excuse for an NHL team

#FireTavares

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02-25-2013, 02:43 AM
  #594
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Ryan Strome can't get here soon enough

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02-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #595
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This team doesn't need anymore intangibles, they need talent.

ROR isn't worth the asking price in my opinion.
What intangibles does this hockey team have right now? We need guys that will work extremely hard, play physical, be responsible, and lead. ROR has the capabitlity to do that very well. Weiss is another good option to slot in a 2C.

I dont see the price as that big of a deal. We are taking on fake contracts just to get to the ceiling, so we can afford to spend against the cap.

This team needs a goalie badly. Poulin let in a couple horrid goals last night...

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02-25-2013, 09:47 AM
  #596
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So the Isles are going to trade for the restricted free agent Ryan O'Reily, give him the long term deal he wants, which would have an average annual average value between 3.5M to 5.5M, and ultimately make him the second highest player paid on the team, and close to Tavares value? I don't think so, not with Charles Wang writing the checks.
probably true. The Tim Thomas deal was embarassing. We would rather take on a retired players salary then pay someone to help this team, when they drastically need it.

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02-25-2013, 09:52 AM
  #597
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Originally Posted by cjdv16 View Post
Look at what the Isles gave up for Peca way back when. That's the return for O'Reilly.

The differences. Peca was older, but established. Isles knew what they were getting.

O'Reilly still is relatively unproven. Isles would be taking a risk, but he's a far younger player than Peca was at the time of the trade.

2 prospects w/good upside would do it.

I think Nino is off the table as is Donovan. Ditto for Strome.

If Nino did go, he'd be the centerpiece with a lesser prospect included (ie, Lee and his possible signing issues?).

Otherwise, I think you're looking at a Brock Nelson / de Haan type of package.

That would be my maximum... again, for a kid who's only performed 1 year at a high level.
There is definately risk associated with ROR. There is risk associated with anyone. If we dont make a move for ROR or maybe Weiss, then what? Stand pat and finish in the bottom 5-7, draft, hope prospects pan out (which is rare on the island) and repeat. We need to address to gaps in this hockey team in order to move forward and a 2nd line C is a big one. Eventually you have to jump and ROR seems like a good option.

Now, some D and a goalie and were on our way...

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02-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #598
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He's unproven talent though. I agree with your second paragraph. It's tough to let go of the guys you expected to build around.
He is not unproven. He has had a good year. He just hasnt had the opportunity to repeat.

Lets be reasonable here. The Islanders are going to have a lot of difficulty signing "proven" tier 1 level free agents. The Getzlaffs and Perrys are not coming to the island. ROR's of the world are the types of guys we will most likely sign.

Definition of unproven - Josh Bailey. Why is this guy not in the AHL?

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02-25-2013, 10:33 AM
  #599
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O'Reilly as an 18 year old and 2nd rd. pick, He impressed in camp and made the Avalanche. O'Reilly played 81 games as a rookie - no benching, no watching and sitting from the press box... as an 18 yr old - 8 goals 18 asst and 26 points and was +6
What did Nino do in his first year as a pro. How about Bailey? They were rushed, right? O'Reilly Rushed? HIs performance alone must tell you something about the kid's character and in ice performance.

O'Reilly as a 19 year old scored 13 goals and 26 points... greater responsibility and more ice time.

And as a 20 year old - he scored 55 pts... played top minutes averaging 20 minutes a game and was -1 on a bad team and led the league in takeaways.

What have our guys done? AHL allstars... Nino 1 point in 55 NHL games and -25...
Okposo? He has already shown what he is and what he ain't - he is not a top line RW. He is a top 6 forward who will play on the 2nd unit PP, but won't kill penalties and give you a stat line of about
20/25/45 - maybe 50. I would resign Boyes and wait for the likes of Nelson, Kabanov, Sundstrom, and Strome to arrive. O'Reilly replaces Okposo on the roster and fills in 2C role. O'Reilly - can be thrown out there every night - against the top C's in the game: Crosby, Staal, Richards, Stamkos... and give you the same output in points, kill penalties, be a leader and an instant fan favorite.

And what will Donovan give us - is he a top pairing d man? No. Is he top 4? Yes. I can't see Donovan standing in the way of getting O'Reilly in an Isles jersey and not in a Rangers Jersey. Donovan hurts since Reinhart is about two seasons away and De Haan is made of glass.

We have prospects that fill in Nino's prospect value - hell most likely another top 10 pick this coming June.

MM/JT - Strome
MG/ROR - Boyes
Bails/Fransie - Ullstrom
Martin/Cizikas - Joensuu/McDonald

with Nelson, Kabanov, Lee, Sundstrom on their way.

I don't see any situation where Wang greenlights a deal, where he pays ROR Tavares type money. Imo ROR isn't worth $5m per.

Isles will be looking done the road at the next 2 summers, where Hamonic and Moulson will be looking for new deals.

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02-25-2013, 10:46 AM
  #600
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I don't see any situation where Wang greenlights a deal, where he pays ROR Tavares type money. Imo ROR isn't worth $5m per.

Isles will be looking done the road at the next 2 summers, where Hamonic and Moulson will be looking for new deals.
So what is the solution? No contract or offer and we continue down the road to failure?

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