HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Grabo fine or missing a gear?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-08-2013, 02:55 PM
  #1
hobarth
Registered User
 
hobarth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
vCash: 500
Leafs 2nd. line discussions.

Kule/Grabo/McClement together make around 10 mil. per year.

Is that proper compensation for providing basically zero offence ?

I don't think a second line can be as anemic as they have been lately and justify being considered a 2nd line. I also don't think we can afford a 3rd line making this kind of $s in a 64 mil. $ universe.

Grabo is making 5.5 mil. alone which to me suggests he is a star however he's never really scored at a star's pace which to me is 60+ points per year.

Kule, altho he has other redeeming qualities, scored 7 goals last year and is currently on about the same pace this year.

McClement has always scored in the 20 to 25 point range.

I think we need more than these players have to offer for them to ever be considered a 2nd line or we need a serious downgrade in their pay to meet the modest expectations of a 3rd line.

If TO is going to be able to improve in the future a more prudent approach to the allocation of $s to contributions will have to be adhered to.


Last edited by ULF_55: 02-09-2013 at 01:17 PM. Reason: Obviously, a trolling title. Too much evidence showing it is the 2nd. line.
hobarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 02:58 PM
  #2
blasted_Sabre
Global Moderator
Warden of the North
 
blasted_Sabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Muskoka
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,580
vCash: 500
Seeing as were not pressed to the cap, I dont see that it matters.

And Grabo is not paid at an average "stars" UFA price tag. Hes paid less.

blasted_Sabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:14 PM
  #3
JackJ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,911
vCash: 500
Grabovski stays until a #1 is bought into the fold:

1) ----------
2) Kadri
3) Bozak

JackJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:17 PM
  #4
Joey Hoser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Guelph
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,704
vCash: 500
They're the second line, judging by their minutes.

Kulemin and Grabovski are producing the amount of offence you would expect from an average second line. Kulemin is pacing 50ish points and another assist or two from Grabovski would put him the same range.

McClement has only been on the line for a few games.

I'm not a big fan of the way the line has looked lately, but you're arguments are questionable.

Joey Hoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:20 PM
  #5
The Saurus
Registered User
 
The Saurus's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United Nations
Posts: 8,231
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Hoser View Post
They're the second line, judging by their minutes.
Yes they are.

Nazem Kadri's line is the third line.

The Saurus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:21 PM
  #6
Kyle Doobas*
#groovystats
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,689
vCash: 159
I'm fine with having the most expensive checking line if we also have one of the cheapest top scoring lines

Kyle Doobas* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:24 PM
  #7
Phion Keneuf
Bang Bang
 
Phion Keneuf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Vaughan, Ontario
Country: Italy
Posts: 29,268
vCash: 500
They are the 2nd line, which is definitely not the most expensive 2nd line

Phion Keneuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:25 PM
  #8
charliolemieux
rsTmf
 
charliolemieux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,581
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
I'm fine with having the most expensive checking line if we also have one of the cheapest top scoring lines
As long as it all balances out.

charliolemieux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 03:35 PM
  #9
FireEverybody*
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,675
vCash: 500
This is stupid on multiple levels.
1. That is clearly our second line.
2. If they were our 3rd line that makes our second line dirt cheap.
3. You are just *****ing about Grabo and screw you.

FireEverybody* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 04:20 PM
  #10
Vintage Leaf Memories
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 27
vCash: 500
Leafs 2nd. line discussions.

Leaf fans don't generally question Grabovski's determination. Everyone remembers that night in Boston a couple of years ago- Chara, a concussion, game-wnning goal, etc.

But if we sit back and assess objectively, is he the player we need him to be? OK second-line centre...premier second-line centre. I'm not just talking point production, but overall play, making those arund him better, etc.

Thoughts?


Last edited by ULF_55: 02-09-2013 at 01:18 PM.
Vintage Leaf Memories is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 04:23 PM
  #11
SteveV*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 6,212
vCash: 500
He has hit a new gear on faceoffs, best he's every been. As well, if people would look at terrorital play, perhaps the value of Grabo might become clearer. Last time I checked the other team can't score when hemmed up in their end.

SteveV* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 04:23 PM
  #12
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,262
vCash: 500
At his salary, Grabovski at his best is still not good enough. Should have been traded.

I would be interested to see his stats AFTER he signed that monster contract. It's like he's been on vacation ever since.

Jerkini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 04:42 PM
  #13
Defense
Registered User
 
Defense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Country:
Posts: 1,734
vCash: 500
Id say we trade him and his 5.5 million cap hit. He hasn't impressed me at all this year, but hopefully him and the 2nd line can start racking up points.

Defense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 04:44 PM
  #14
contour
Registered User
 
contour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
The pucks just aren't going in for him. It's cause the KGM line is underperforming this year, with the exception of Kulemin.

If someone good can fill in MacA's place while providing good chemistry, Grabo will pick it up again.

contour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 04:47 PM
  #15
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Halifax, NS
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,724
vCash: 500
Grabo's problem is his wingers. Kulemin's foot speed isn't as fast and MacA is this teams worst player.

( i dont dislike Kulemin, i just think Grabo needs a better LW'er - call up Ashton)

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:02 PM
  #16
hobarth
Registered User
 
hobarth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
This is stupid on multiple levels.
1. That is clearly our second line.
2. If they were our 3rd line that makes our second line dirt cheap.
3. You are just *****ing about Grabo and screw you.
Grabo fan I presume and I can understand that(not) so I thought why not see who gets paid about the same amount of $s, to see if Grabo is a star or only paid like one.

Grabbo is now being paid 5.5 mil. for a full season so I thought I'd see who else is get's that kind of dough within .5 mil.

St.Louis 5.6
Kesler 5
Plakanec 5
Pominville 5.3
Riberio 5
Richards(LA) 5.7
Carter 5.3
Zetterberg 6
Krejci
Neal 5
Bergeron 5
Benn 5.2

I didn't go thru the whole league because I got tired but I would think most rational people would agree that the majority of these players have accomplished more in their careers and can continue to today or into the future. Pretty well all of them have scored 70 plus points so I get the impression that anyone who receives 5 mil. or there abouts per year should be considered a star, not a super star a star. Grabo is neither he has never shown that he could score 70 points, can't this year and we have no grounds to assume that he will in the future.

Kulemin is paid 2.8 mil. per year to score what 7 goals a year, that's just wrong on so many levels and it's certainly not funny.

1.5 mil for a player that's 29 and has never scored 30 or more points in a season, I don't care if RC loves him, I'm sure that TO bid against itself for his services. We would think that 1.5 mil. is not even worth getting worked up about but it's more indicative of TO's careless use of money, TO has deep pockets yes but TO still has to ice a team with cap constraints.

Yes they are played with 2nd line minutes but the quality of their time on the ice is poor there is no flow to their games, possession time I would think is nil, shots on goal anemic, time in defensive zone high, scoring opportunities horrible and their +/- stats poor considering the quality of the players they are facing on a nightly basis. Based on what I've brought up I have concluded that this line is masquerading as a 2nd line but is in fact a 3rd line.

It would seem thru this whole treatise that I have a totally negative view of the Leafs which might be in part right but what I feel is TO is 2 players away from being a given for the playoffs and even for contention for the Stanley Cup. I don't think TO has the assets in the pipeline to fill those needs now so getting those 2 players would require either trading for them or signing UFAs or both. If TO continues to have such over paid and under producing lines we will never be able to afford quality players.

blasted_sabre thinks that since it doesn't affect TO now, he doesn't think it matters. Personally I would like the Leafs to be in a position now and in the future to improve and decisions now have a great effect on the now and future Leaf teams.

hobarth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:05 PM
  #17
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobarth View Post
Kule/Grabo/McClement together make around 10 mil. per year.

Is that proper compensation for providing basically zero offence ?
If by zero offence you mean a combined 13 points while playing against the other team's top lines night in and night out, sure.

Jerkini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:06 PM
  #18
HappyGilmourr
Registered User
 
HappyGilmourr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Milton
Posts: 5,816
vCash: 500
I like Grabovski he's a solid 50 + point centre and he can provide a lot for this team... but 5.5 is just to much. I was expecting 4-4.5 that would be a fair contract but oh well he's still an important asset.

HappyGilmourr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:06 PM
  #19
Marlboro
Registered User
 
Marlboro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: LeafsNation
Country: Canada
Posts: 67
vCash: 500
Grabo is incredibly adept at doing nothing. Needs to shoot the puck more and pass

Marlboro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:08 PM
  #20
CanadasTeam
Registered User
 
CanadasTeam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Tarrana
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,483
vCash: 500
This thread is silly that if no one else replies after me, it would die and good as locked.

p.s. props for the "bait" title (3rd line, lol)

/thread

CanadasTeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:11 PM
  #21
blasted_Sabre
Global Moderator
Warden of the North
 
blasted_Sabre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Muskoka
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,580
vCash: 500
You need to consider market value and, more importantly if the players were UFA or RFA when they signed. You cannot compare an RFA with zero leverage to an UFA with full leverage. You cannot compare UFAs signed under a drastically different salary cap either.

blasted_Sabre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:15 PM
  #22
HappyGilmourr
Registered User
 
HappyGilmourr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Milton
Posts: 5,816
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Grabo's problem is his wingers. Kulemin's foot speed isn't as fast and MacA is this teams worst player.

( i dont dislike Kulemin, i just think Grabo needs a better LW'er - call up Ashton)
Kulemin might be our fastest player so I don't no what you are even talking about... Also Kulemin has been fine this year. Kulemin - Grabovski is 2/3 of a great line the problem is they need someone else better then Mac/Mcclement. Kadri would be ideal he would get that line producing immediately he's so creative with the puck and generating plays... The problem is Kadri and Frattin have been so good together you don't want to break it up and Kadri is better of at centre right now. JVR would be next but we need him in Lupul's spot... For now Grabovski is going to have to battle through it until Lupul is back and then he can get JVR or Lupul on his wing.

HappyGilmourr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:15 PM
  #23
InShannyWeTrust
Bring on the trades!
 
InShannyWeTrust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
This line has been absolutely awful ..... Kulemin most over rated player on the leafs , grabo always tries but hasn't done any... Maclement is awesome

InShannyWeTrust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:15 PM
  #24
Jerkini
Registered User
 
Jerkini's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,262
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
Grabo's problem is his wingers. Kulemin's foot speed isn't as fast and MacA is this teams worst player.

( i dont dislike Kulemin, i just think Grabo needs a better LW'er - call up Ashton)
Ashton Carter? The guy who looked so incredibly ill prepared for the NHL in ALL of his 15 games last season? The guy who can barely score at the AHL level?

Jerkini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 05:16 PM
  #25
InShannyWeTrust
Bring on the trades!
 
InShannyWeTrust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
he's like kessel just in a bit of a slump

InShannyWeTrust is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.