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10-13-1. "A bunch of donkeys on skates"

View Poll Results: What should the Caps do?
Tank and trade UFA's 1 20.00%
Tank and re-tool 4 80.00%
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Old
02-13-2013, 04:18 PM
  #576
kmart
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dat gif

who is this, i cant see the number

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02-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #577
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dat gif

who is this, i cant see the number
Erskine.

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02-14-2013, 07:20 AM
  #578
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I get what you are saying, but you're completely ignoring my point. What we have in there isn't working. Wins or not, the 2nd and 3rd pairings are consistently giving up goals against. Carlson is struggling and regressing while paired with Erskine and Poti. Kundratek has no defensive chemistry with Schultz. We need to try something different from what's currently in there, regardless of your assessment of Hamrlik's very limited play this season. Hamrlik was our stabilizing force last year, the guy both Hunter and Boudreau called on to help out when a defenseman was struggling. It's time we tried him next to Carlson and put Erskine back into a role where he's not overmatched (and can still utilzie his pugilistic skill without removing a top 4 defenseman from our line-up for five minutes).
It was working even worse with Hamrlik in there. Carlson's struggles are his own to turn around and he will. Kundratek had no defensive chemistry with Hamrlik either.

Hamrlik is not young any more. He is pushing 40 and running out of gas. Under no circumstances should he be playing top 4 minutes in a system that demands a lot of activity from the D.

If you think Erskine is "overmatched" right now in his role then Hamrlik would be seriously overmatched there.

Look..he's sucked. Was it only a few games? Yeah. From what he showed has he deserved more time? No. Yeah he was good last year towards the end of the season. But father time catches up to everyone and it sure looks like its caught him.

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02-14-2013, 07:26 AM
  #579
brs03
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You know, despite all the "he sucked," Hamrlik has been miles ahead of Erskine this season in both shots for and shots against while on the ice. His suckage hasn't been nearly as risky as people seem to want to suggest.


Last edited by brs03: 02-14-2013 at 07:38 AM.
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02-14-2013, 07:34 AM
  #580
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You, despite all the "he sucked," Hamrlik has been miles ahead of Erskine this season in both shots for and shots against while on the ice. His suckage hasn't been nearly as risky as people seem to want to suggest.
Who cares if the car is leaking oil? It is still running, isn't it? Isn't it?!?!? I'm going to keep driving.

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02-14-2013, 07:49 AM
  #581
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You know, despite all the "he sucked," Hamrlik has been miles ahead of Erskine this season in both shots for and shots against while on the ice. His suckage hasn't been nearly as risky as people seem to want to suggest.
He sure looked awful in my eyes. Oates is seeing it the same as me. Again there are intangibles (physical intimidation through hits, enforcing, crease clearing) that Erskine brings which Hamr doesn't.

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02-14-2013, 07:51 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
My car is leaking oil. It still drives, but I can see it leaking oil. Do I try to stop the leak or just keep driving until the engine seizes?
Good point. Clearly the correct thing to do is grab a Hamr and reach down underneath and start banging around the oil tank and hope it fixes it.

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02-14-2013, 08:01 AM
  #583
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It was working even worse with Hamrlik in there. Carlson's struggles are his own to turn around and he will. Kundratek had no defensive chemistry with Hamrlik either.
Hamrlik and Kundratek has plenty of chemistry in the past. Kundratek even went as far as saying he enjoyed being paired with Hamrlik. But that's moot, since I wasn't proposing to pair Hamrlik and Kundratek together.

In regards to Carlson's struggles, why are you going to put a struggling player in position to get worse? You do something to help guide them back on track. Pairing him with a savvy veteran with a history of mentoring players like Carlson seems to be the obvious move.

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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
He sure looked awful in my eyes. Oates is seeing it the same as me. Again there are intangibles (physical intimidation through hits, enforcing, crease clearing) that Erskine brings which Hamr doesn't.
And, again, nobody is saying to bench Erskine. We're just saying to move him down a pairing.

Whatever, I'm done with this conversation. It's like talking to a wall.

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02-14-2013, 08:07 AM
  #584
Stewie G
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Good point. Clearly the correct thing to do is grab a Hamr and reach down underneath and start banging around the oil tank and hope it fixes it.
No. If the car is leaking oil you take a look to see what is causing it. Once you see what the problem is, you try to fix it. If it turns out that the first thing you try isn't working, then you can eliminate it as a potential fix.

Hamrlik might not be the answer, but you won't know unless you try. Give him a couple games and see if the leak goes away or slows down.

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02-14-2013, 08:12 AM
  #585
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I'm not saying Hamr is the answer, or that Erskine should be a regular scratch. But the current setup is a recipe for disaster. I can live with that for this season obviously. Just don't hold any illusions about it, that's all.

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02-14-2013, 08:22 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
No. If the car is leaking oil you take a look to see what is causing it. Once you see what the problem is, you try to fix it. If it turns out that the first thing you try isn't working, then you can eliminate it as a potential fix.

Hamrlik might not be the answer, but you won't know unless you try. Give him a couple games and see if the leak goes away or slows down.
Has Hamrlik not played this season? Oh he has. How many games have we won with him in the lineup? Zero? Oh that sucks.

What is "trying"? Is it giving him 5 games instead of 4? 6? 8? The whole season?

In your opinion 4 games is not enough of a sample size. I get that. Tell me how many games he should get to prove those 4 were a fluke and he indeed deserves to be in over Schultz or Erskine?

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02-14-2013, 08:24 AM
  #587
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I'll take one last stab at this too.

Hamrlik played the first three games. The Caps, as a team, were scored upon 14 times. Hamrlik was on ice for a grand total of three goals. One of those goals was a PK, Surely it was Hamrlik's suckiness that caused the team to falter. His last game before his benching was against Montreal. They scored 4 goals. Hamrlik was not on ice for any of those in almost 20 minutes of TOI. Nor did he take any penalties the first three games.

I can understand the correlation between wins and losses but there are other variables. And the comment that Oates sees something is irrelevant because Hunter thought he "saw" something too. Montreal thought they made the right move when they let him go.

Hey if the team keeps winning I'm for whatever works. But they've yet to beat a meaningful opponent so we'll see what gives this next stretch of games.

Hamrlik has been notorious for helping young d-men. But don't take my word for it. Ask Kundratek or Orlov or Josh Gorges or Phaneuf.

Again, he's not part of the future. There's no doubting that. But there are some young defenders on the team, as others have pointed out, that are not getting the job done. Why not at least try to help them?

And as others have pointed out - it's not Hamrlik vs. Erskine. It's about improving chemistry offensively and defensively. Poti was about to re-enter the lineup until his injury. Who's place he was going to take remains a mystery. But it would seem to me Oates "sees" something else.

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02-14-2013, 08:27 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
Has Hamrlik not played this season? Oh he has. How many games have we won with him in the lineup? Zero? Oh that sucks.

What is "trying"? Is it giving him 5 games instead of 4? 6? 8? The whole season?

In your opinion 4 games is not enough of a sample size. I get that. Tell me how many games he should get to prove those 4 were a fluke and he indeed deserves to be in over Schultz or Erskine?
I give up too.

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02-14-2013, 08:31 AM
  #589
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Carlson's struggles are his own to turn around and he will. .
lets be honest. carlson's struggles are harder to turnaround when he has to also worry about covering for a 6d playing 4d minutes. erskine needs a lot more help at that level than does alzner for instance.

playing with erskine makes it that much harder for 74 to get straight

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02-14-2013, 08:35 AM
  #590
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I'll take one last stab at this too.

Hamrlik played the first three games. The Caps, as a team, were scored upon 14 times. Hamrlik was on ice for a grand total of three goals. One of those goals was a PK, Surely it was Hamrlik's suckiness that caused the team to falter. His last game before his benching was against Montreal. They scored 4 goals. Hamrlik was not on ice for any of those in almost 20 minutes of TOI. Nor did he take any penalties the first three games.

I can understand the correlation between wins and losses but there are other variables. And the comment that Oates sees something is irrelevant because Hunter thought he "saw" something too. Montreal thought they made the right move when they let him go.

Hey if the team keeps winning I'm for whatever works. But they've yet to beat a meaningful opponent so we'll see what gives this next stretch of games.

Hamrlik has been notorious for helping young d-men. But don't take my word for it. Ask Kundratek or Orlov or Josh Gorges or Phaneuf.

Again, he's not part of the future. There's no doubting that. But there are some young defenders on the team, as others have pointed out, that are not getting the job done. Why not at least try to help them?

And as others have pointed out - it's not Hamrlik vs. Erskine. It's about improving chemistry offensively and defensively. Poti was about to re-enter the lineup until his injury. Who's place he was going to take remains a mystery. But it would seem to me Oates "sees" something else.
Hamrlik is at an age where play can drop off steeply. In my eyes it has. We are playing much better without him in the lineup. Coincidence? Perhaps.

But why change things when they are getting better? We are starting to build something so why not maintain it?

I remember GMGM's first major trade. Zednik and Bulis for Linden and Zubrus essentially.

At the time the Caps had just rattled of 7 wins in a row or something and chemistry was GREAT. Bulis was not happy and had limited playing time. Oates was our captain and it looked like we could be a darkhorse team.

Bam the trade is made. We lose something like 5 games in a row and were outmatched in the playoffs vs the Pens. The whole team seemed to sag after that trade.

Were there flaws GMGM was trying to addres? Yes. On paper it looked like they added size, leadership and experience.

This teams confidence is fragile right now. They are starting to play a bit better. Why the heck would you mess with that?

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02-14-2013, 08:36 AM
  #591
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
lets be honest. carlson's struggles are harder to turnaround when he has to also worry about covering for a 6d playing 4d minutes. erskine needs a lot more help at that level than does alzner for instance.

playing with erskine makes it that much harder for 74 to get straight
So are you suggesting we have a 4d in the lineup? Who is this player? Hamrlik? Schultz?

We have 3 top 4 dmen and a bunch of 5-7s. Erskine is the best of that bunch in terms of fit and filling a niche role.

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02-14-2013, 08:37 AM
  #592
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
No. If the car is leaking oil you take a look to see what is causing it. Once you see what the problem is, you try to fix it. If it turns out that the first thing you try isn't working, then you can eliminate it as a potential fix.

Hamrlik might not be the answer, but you won't know unless you try. Give him a couple games and see if the leak goes away or slows down.
Of course, you're correct.

And I'll expand on what you're saying: when you need the car, but don't have access to the proper replacement parts, you might resort to trying to make a temporary part yourself, or try a workaround.

The Caps, as you infer correctly, are in the same boat.

Now, I like an Erskine, provided that he's got a highly skilled (and fast) player paired with him, and his pairing is either your 3rd or 4th pair.

In our case, he's arguably in the 2nd pairing, which is a lot to ask of him.

Bob R makes a lot of claims about Hamr's play to date... and it's puzzling, as Hamr hasn't played in a while that I've seen. But then again, he's claiming to be Tinner, a guy I have exchanged many e-mails with. And for some odd reason (wink), Bob R has quit answering me.

Of course, as you say, Hamr is the cheap patch that won't hold for a long journey... but the Caps might still use him, if the tire only needs to hold long enough to get into town and back.

I keep checking the hockey news organizations each day: you'd think George would be tire shopping.

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02-14-2013, 08:40 AM
  #593
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Schultz is the one thats causing the issues.

He is playing where Erskine should be. Schultz "should" be with Carlson or Green...but he sucks.

So yeah.

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02-14-2013, 08:44 AM
  #594
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Schultz is the one thats causing the issues.

He is playing where Erskine should be. Schultz "should" be with Carlson or Green...but he sucks.

So yeah.
I love the edge Erskine has... and given my druthers, Carlson would be his pair mate.

Wonder what BB would have done?

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02-14-2013, 08:45 AM
  #595
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I suspect Hammer was out of game shape. Being the oldest, it was the most obvious.

The red flag to me, was bag skating him. I am not sure how common that is among regular scratches.

Strung is right, the core problem is that the long term simmer of Sarge remains a high priority to George.

Maybe there is some # of first rounder busts that he has been allotted.

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02-14-2013, 08:46 AM
  #596
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post

Bob R makes a lot of claims about Hamr's play to date... and it's puzzling, as Hamr hasn't played in a while that I've seen. But then again, he's claiming to be Tinner, a guy I have exchanged many e-mails with. And for some odd reason (wink), Bob R has quit answering me.

Of course, as you say, Hamr is the cheap patch that won't hold for a long journey... but the Caps might still use him, if the tire only needs to hold long enough to get into town and back.

I keep checking the hockey news organizations each day: you'd think George would be tire shopping.
Ha whatever! I haven't received a PM from you in a long while! I always answer them as I look to enlighten the masses with my knowledge..it would be a crime against humanity if I did not...

I agree. We don't have the right parts. I also think we already ARE using a work around in Erskine.

Hamrlik will get his chance I'm sure. Whether be it injury, suspension, a losing streak or just poor play. He has to be ready when he is called upon.

I don't, however, see a need to force him in the lineup when we have won 2 straight (after losing 3 straight in which Erskine was OUT of the lineup).

Remember..the games vs the Pens? Our D combined had 4 hits in those two games...laughable. You don't win games like that. Erskine has 23 hits in 7 games. That is a bit over 3 per game.

Erskine alone would have pretty much matched that output in those games.

Hitting matters. Most are blind to this fact.

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02-14-2013, 08:47 AM
  #597
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This bag skate thing...was it really a bag skate...or just a long practice session for the scratches?

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02-14-2013, 08:48 AM
  #598
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I suspect Hammer was out of game shape. Being the oldest, it was the most obvious.

The red flag to me, was bag skating him. I am not sure how common that is among regular scratches.

Strung is right, the core problem is the long term simmer of Sarge remains a high priority to George.
Maybe he's being shopped? You can sell him on his history.

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02-14-2013, 08:50 AM
  #599
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Ha whatever! I haven't received a PM from you in a long while! I always answer them as I look to enlighten the masses with my knowledge..it would be a crime against humanity if I did not...

I agree. We don't have the right parts. I also think we already ARE using a work around in Erskine.

Hamrlik will get his chance I'm sure. Whether be it injury, suspension, a losing streak or just poor play. He has to be ready when he is called upon.

I don't, however, see a need to force him in the lineup when we have won 2 straight (after losing 3 straight in which Erskine was OUT of the lineup).

Remember..the games vs the Pens? Our D combined had 4 hits in those two games...laughable. You don't win games like that. Erskine has 23 hits in 7 games. That is a bit over 3 per game.

Erskine alone would have pretty much matched that output in those games.

Hitting matters. Most are blind to this fact.
Bob,

You've never received a PM from me.

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02-14-2013, 08:53 AM
  #600
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This bag skate thing...was it really a bag skate...or just a long practice session for the scratches?
It was a joke. Somewhere on Twitter there was a comment made that the scratches were having a long skate (Perreault, Hamr, Poti). Someone else commented that there should have been 20 other players out there with them because it came after a bad loss.

So it became a joke here - team loses, bag skate Hamr.

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