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Johansen Sent Down to Springfield

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Old
02-07-2013, 02:37 PM
  #101
blahblah
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
I am claiming that Johansen knows where to put the puck for guys who know where to be. The guys on this team don't have the same offensive instincts he does, i.e. they don't read the game the same way he does, and don't put themselves in the spots best to capitalize off of Johansen's instincts.
Regardless of how accurate you are, the "irony" (misusing it on purpose) is that you are describing deficiencies in other peoples games to justify demoting Johansen.

Does anyone else find that to be one of the worst reasons, like ever, to demote someone?

You can tell by me previous comment that I got the gist of what you were saying, I was hoping you would find the "irony" in it. Basically you are saying "This guy needs to be demoted because these other chumps suck.".

Your thinking probably is we are hurting his confidence, but I don't really think your reasoning is what the front office is going with. If it is, that could be the most terrifying thing, with the CBJ, I would have heard in a long time.

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02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
I am claiming that Johansen knows where to put the puck for guys who know where to be. The guys on this team don't have the same offensive instincts he does, i.e. they don't read the game the same way he does, and don't put themselves in the spots best to capitalize off of Johansen's instincts. He has, at least in my opinion, by far the highest hockey IQ offensively on this team, and needs smarter players around him. EDIT: Until that happens, why keep him here? Let him dominate another level besides the Junior ranks. He hasn't exactly been king of the AHL. Let him do that and let him be ready to take the next step next year with better players hopefully.

I've seen him make beautiful plays that go unfinished, and ultimately, unnoticed, because of this fact (re: not having players with adequate hockey IQ EDIT: Cam Atkinson comes to mind when I think of the type of player that knows where to be, the type of player Joey needs next to him, which I understand has been the case, I'm merely making a point of it). This is why I stated earlier that he's not a guy you're going to notice until the puck is in the back of the net, but the puck isn't getting into the back of the net because his teammates are not playing off of him well, because they aren't on the same page mentally. It's a vicious cycle.

Rick Nash would have been a great linemate for Joey, and the handful of times the two played together last year I thought Joey did the right things, and thought that with time the two could develop chemistry.
See, I think that there are plenty of high-IQ players on the team and in the pipeline, but what's lacking is the chemistry. That only comes with time, which isn't helped by not being able to have a training camp or preseason when there are plenty of new faces.

With one or two exceptions, the lowest-IQ player on the roster now is way, way ahead of where this team was in 2007.

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02-07-2013, 02:49 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Regardless of how accurate you are, the "irony" (misusing it on purpose) is that you are describing deficiencies in other peoples games to justify demoting Johansen.

Does anyone else find that to be one of the worst reasons, like ever, to demote someone?

You can tell by me previous comment that I got the gist of what you were saying, I was hoping you would find the "irony" in it. Basically you are saying "This guy needs to be demoted because these other chumps suck.".

Your thinking probably is we are hurting his confidence, but I don't really think your reasoning is what the front office is going with. If it is, that could be the most terrifying thing, with the CBJ, I would have heard in a long time.
Great, I've come up with the worst reasoning like, ever, for sending a player down. I know what I believe. I don't give two ***** whether or not you agree with me. He's not producing offense because "these other chumps suck". That's the point. And since these chumps suck, send him to a winning atmosphere where he can dominate. He has growing yet to do.

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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
See, I think that there are plenty of high-IQ players on the team and in the pipeline, but what's lacking is the chemistry. That only comes with time, which isn't helped by not being able to have a training camp or preseason when there are plenty of new faces.

With one or two exceptions, the lowest-IQ player on the roster now is way, way ahead of where this team was in 2007.
I respectfully disagree. Your high IQ just must not be high enough for me. I'm talking elite. Umberger and Foligno and Dorsett, etc don't have it. Nowhere close. It is what we need most to produce more.

That's it for me, I've stated my case two or three times and it will not change.


Last edited by Double-Shift Lassé: 02-07-2013 at 08:41 PM. Reason: mentions ignore
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Old
02-07-2013, 03:36 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
Great, I've come up with the worst reasoning like, ever, for sending a player down. I know what I believe. I don't give two ***** whether or not you agree with me. He's not producing offense because "these other chumps suck". That's the point. And since these chumps suck, send him to a winning atmosphere where he can dominate. He has growing yet to do.
Read my response again before getting all pissy.

Quote:
Regardless of how accurate you are
I never said that your analysis was flawed, only in that is a pretty bizarre reason to demote someone. Imagine if you were told "We're going to demote you because the rest of the guys suck".

You seemed to be talking about why he wasn't productive. I was talking about why he was demoted. You may have some valid points on why he wasn't producing.

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02-07-2013, 03:40 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
See, I think that there are plenty of high-IQ players on the team and in the pipeline, but what's lacking is the chemistry. That only comes with time, which isn't helped by not being able to have a training camp or preseason when there are plenty of new faces.

With one or two exceptions, the lowest-IQ player on the roster now is way, way ahead of where this team was in 2007.
Let's refresh people's memories. That team included Rick Nash, Sergei Fedorov, Fredrik Modin, David Vyborny, Adam Foote, and Bryan Berard (injured). I'm not sure it is quite as clean cut of a victory for the current team as you'd like to make it out to be.

You know what also helps with chemistry? Building a team instead of acquiring a bunch of guys and hoping something works out. We've got too many role players on the team at present and no one that can step up to be a top line forward. You could keep this current roster together for 4 years and chemistry wouldn't magically occur.

Howson's most recent off-season was quite MacLean-esque in that he went out and acquired a bunch of second/third line talent and hoped that some of them would become first line players (think of MacLean's acquisition of the much maligned Todd Marchant or 2007's Anson Carter). The only one thus far to show any potential to develop into that role is Anisimov.

Nonetheless, I don't think this is an excuse for Johansen. Yes, he hasn't been surrounded by elite talent, but star centers have to be able to work with what they have and get the most out of it. I don't feel Johansen had done that.

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02-07-2013, 03:42 PM
  #106
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And read all of my posts again before claiming that "We're going to demote you because the rest of the guys suck" is what I think mgmt said to him. Things like, he has things to prove still, or he still has not dominated the AHL, or there is likely a lost season here, and not there. You know, all that stuff that you have apparently missed.


Last edited by Double-Shift Lassé: 02-07-2013 at 08:41 PM. Reason: more ignore
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Old
02-07-2013, 04:32 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by chunkbox View Post
i am ok with it , Johan could use some beating on other teams type stuff ...

but the other thought i have is who in the hell is gonna replace his playmaking ability ?

anyone ?
His playmaking ability amounted to 2 points in 10 games. Thats not really irreplaceable production

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02-07-2013, 04:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Anisimovs AK View Post
His playmaking ability amounted to 2 points in 10 games. Thats not really irreplaceable production
Joey did have a few very brilliant passes that should have resulted in goals. He's also flubbed some very good opportunities of his own.

If he had gotten a few lucky bounces, he could have far more points. But it seems like he's getting frustrated and maybe even more nervous the past few games when he gets opportunities. He could either have stuck it out and hope that after getting a lucky bounce he loosens up on the stick some. Or, he can head back to Springy.

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02-07-2013, 05:38 PM
  #109
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Joey did have a few very brilliant passes that should have resulted in goals. He's also flubbed some very good opportunities of his own.

If he had gotten a few lucky bounces, he could have far more points. But it seems like he's getting frustrated and maybe even more nervous the past few games when he gets opportunities. He could either have stuck it out and hope that after getting a lucky bounce he loosens up on the stick some. Or, he can head back to Springy.
No I agree, I wasnt saying that as a slight to Johansen, just saying that while he is a playmaker he hasnt been putting up much points, for whatever reason. Tuesday's game against LA was a perfect example of what you're talking about. He sets up Dorsett beautifully, unfortunately Dorsett is Dorsett and shoots it right into Quick. Then later he had a chance to shoot on a 2-1 but he tries to fake shot/toe-drag pass it to another player and the dman ended up blocking the pass.

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