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When Niskanen Heals

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Old
02-06-2013, 10:31 PM
  #51
Captain Hook
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Yeah, Michalek just never fit here for some reason. Orpik/Martin is everything I wanted Martin/Michalek to be so far.

Very glad we got out from that Michalek contract especially since we're overflowing with D-Men as it is. Although the Lovejoy trade helps that situation.

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02-06-2013, 10:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Utterly Disgusting View Post
It was smart to get rid of him. But weren't people more upset about the return than the fact they traded Michalek?
Yes. Trading Z away was fine. Getting an absolute garbage return was ridiculous. The guy, as subpar as he was here, is a top-4 NHL defenseman. Getting a crappy enforcer defenseman, a goalie who isn't even in the system, and an additional crappy Swede with the draft pick is a terrible deal.

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02-06-2013, 10:56 PM
  #53
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Well I guess Lovejoy getting traded solves this mystery.

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02-06-2013, 10:57 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by turd View Post
Yes. Trading Z away was fine. Getting an absolute garbage return was ridiculous. The guy, as subpar as he was here, is a top-4 NHL defenseman. Getting a crappy enforcer defenseman, a goalie who isn't even in the system, and an additional crappy Swede with the draft pick is a terrible deal.
Are all of your 19 posts this negative? Do you know anything about Ruopp or Sundquist?
I'm not saying the return was outstanding by Shero did not want to take salary back. This is difficult when you are trying to unload a 4 million dollar underachieving d man

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02-06-2013, 11:28 PM
  #55
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When Niskanen is back, Bortuzzo, Engelland and Despres will likely take turns at riding the bench... and then someone else will be injured and its no big thing.

However, as I've said a million times, I cannot see Nisky make a strong playoff pairing with any of the other top4 D-men.
MAYBE Nisky+Orpik as a second pairing, but then to me Martin+Letang is just a really bad fit, and given what we've seen so far you just don't split up Orpik+Martin as our shutdown pairing. Niskanen has the same strengths and weaknesses as Letang, only he isn't as good obviously. I would not trust that pairing defensively in the playoffs. No sir.

That is the primary reason Niskanen to me is our best trade pawn. He is a second pairing defenseman, with lots of appealing qualities and a good contract, but in terms of adding qualities we need, qualities the lack of which have greatly contributed to our playoff demise in latter years... our youngsters do that more so than Niskanen. Have Despres cut out 25% of his mistakes through experience and he is a better partner for Letang right now.

Ideal situation is that Niskanen is used to get us a top6 upgrade while we go out and pick a quality rental to solidify the D (like Regehr) or PP (Gonchar) for the playoffs.

Again, it has nothing to do with not rating Niskanen. It is just that we have the kind of youngsters coming up that we do. It would be different if Niskanen added something essential like being a PP QB, but he doesn't. He is a fine alrounder but eminently replaceable.

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02-07-2013, 12:02 AM
  #56
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If we are going to make a run at the cup this year I don't think we can trade Nisky without picking up a top 4 vet. While I absolutly love Despres' potential (he may be a franchise Dman in 5 years) I don't trust him (or Bort) in the playoffs. One of his/their D-zone turnovers could cost us a game/series.

I'm really enjoying watching these two right now, but come April when everything is magnified, they will need to be a lot better to see the ice.

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02-07-2013, 12:31 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I never said that I would trade Despres. I was saying that I could see Shero doing it when Niskanen returns. Are you telling me that you couldn't see Shero doing that?
No, I can't. I remember reading that Shero said he would not be trading Despres some time last season. . . Shero has a history of making smart decisions. Trading Despres wouldn't follow that trend.

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02-07-2013, 03:16 AM
  #58
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We are too much healthy at the moment, by the time Niskanen will be back I guess someone else will go down

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02-07-2013, 07:13 AM
  #59
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Never Mind wrong thread

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Old
02-07-2013, 08:10 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
When Niskanen is back, Bortuzzo, Engelland and Despres will likely take turns at riding the bench... and then someone else will be injured and its no big thing.

However, as I've said a million times, I cannot see Nisky make a strong playoff pairing with any of the other top4 D-men.
MAYBE Nisky+Orpik as a second pairing, but then to me Martin+Letang is just a really bad fit, and given what we've seen so far you just don't split up Orpik+Martin as our shutdown pairing. Niskanen has the same strengths and weaknesses as Letang, only he isn't as good obviously. I would not trust that pairing defensively in the playoffs. No sir.

That is the primary reason Niskanen to me is our best trade pawn. He is a second pairing defenseman, with lots of appealing qualities and a good contract, but in terms of adding qualities we need, qualities the lack of which have greatly contributed to our playoff demise in latter years... our youngsters do that more so than Niskanen. Have Despres cut out 25% of his mistakes through experience and he is a better partner for Letang right now.

Ideal situation is that Niskanen is used to get us a top6 upgrade while we go out and pick a quality rental to solidify the D (like Regehr) or PP (Gonchar) for the playoffs.

Again, it has nothing to do with not rating Niskanen. It is just that we have the kind of youngsters coming up that we do. It would be different if Niskanen added something essential like being a PP QB, but he doesn't. He is a fine alrounder but eminently replaceable.
Nice thought there.

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02-07-2013, 08:30 AM
  #61
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I didn't have a problem with dealing Michalek...my problem was the all-or-nothing approach to landing Parise and Suter, or nothing at all. That still bothers me.

As for Niskanen, for me he's our new No. 7 defenseman until our defense implodes. Why try to fix what's not broken? All three pairings seem to have chemistry and are doing very different jobs for us, successfully. Let's run with this for now.

Engelland-Bortuzzo kinda reminds me of Gill-Scuderi, to be honest. There appears to be every reason to break them up, until you watch the results.

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02-07-2013, 09:05 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I didn't have a problem with dealing Michalek...my problem was the all-or-nothing approach to landing Parise and Suter, or nothing at all. That still bothers me.

As for Niskanen, for me he's our new No. 7 defenseman until our defense implodes. Why try to fix what's not broken? All three pairings seem to have chemistry and are doing very different jobs for us, successfully. Let's run with this for now.

Engelland-Bortuzzo kinda reminds me of Gill-Scuderi, to be honest. There appears to be every reason to break them up, until you watch the results.
I will be stunned if that's how it pans out. If Niskanen instead of Lovejoy had been available for the Isles game, then Despres would've been on the bench.

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02-07-2013, 10:22 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
Are all of your 19 posts this negative? Do you know anything about Ruopp or Sundquist?
I'm not saying the return was outstanding by Shero did not want to take salary back. This is difficult when you are trying to unload a 4 million dollar underachieving d man
I'd say probably 14 of the 19 have been.

But anyway, everything I've seen and read, Ruopp is just a hard hitting, drop the gloves defenseman. Rarely, if ever, gets any points. I don't see him ever making the squad, given how deep we are at the position. Sundqvist wasn't even on the top 120 European prospects list his draft year.

It was a salary dump, and thats fine, but the return left a lot to be desired.

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Old
02-07-2013, 10:37 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by turd View Post
I'd say probably 14 of the 19 have been.

But anyway, everything I've seen and read, Ruopp is just a hard hitting, drop the gloves defenseman. Rarely, if ever, gets any points. I don't see him ever making the squad, given how deep we are at the position. Sundqvist wasn't even on the top 120 European prospects list his draft year.

It was a salary dump, and thats fine, but the return left a lot to be desired.
While its way to early to tell if he has NHL potential, I like what Ruopp brings to the table. I actually think he could turn out to be the next Engelland. I would say his upside is a bottom pairing tough guy. He will never be a big point producer. But with the d prospects the pens have in the system, thats fine. Teams need a guy like that. There are 29 other teams in the NHL that would gladly take Engelland on their team. Tough guys that can play will always be useful.

AS for Sundquist, I cant really comment on him cause I know very little except what other posters have said.

I can see why a lot of people werent happy with the return, but if for example, the pens traded Z to ottawa and got Foligno, would that be any better? I would rather the 4 Mil in cap space.

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02-07-2013, 02:59 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I will be stunned if that's how it pans out. If Niskanen instead of Lovejoy had been available for the Isles game, then Despres would've been on the bench.
Despres offers everything Niskanen does plus more. With experience, he'll eliminate some of the mistakes he makes. But sitting on the bench, he's useless.

That said, with Bylsma coaching, Niskanen will get playing time. I think we'll eventually see Engelland being the odd man out

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02-07-2013, 04:41 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
When Niskanen is back, Bortuzzo, Engelland and Despres will likely take turns at riding the bench... and then someone else will be injured and its no big thing.

However, as I've said a million times, I cannot see Nisky make a strong playoff pairing with any of the other top4 D-men.
MAYBE Nisky+Orpik as a second pairing, but then to me Martin+Letang is just a really bad fit, and given what we've seen so far you just don't split up Orpik+Martin as our shutdown pairing. Niskanen has the same strengths and weaknesses as Letang, only he isn't as good obviously. I would not trust that pairing defensively in the playoffs. No sir.

That is the primary reason Niskanen to me is our best trade pawn. He is a second pairing defenseman, with lots of appealing qualities and a good contract, but in terms of adding qualities we need, qualities the lack of which have greatly contributed to our playoff demise in latter years... our youngsters do that more so than Niskanen. Have Despres cut out 25% of his mistakes through experience and he is a better partner for Letang right now.

Ideal situation is that Niskanen is used to get us a top6 upgrade while we go out and pick a quality rental to solidify the D (like Regehr) or PP (Gonchar) for the playoffs.

Again, it has nothing to do with not rating Niskanen. It is just that we have the kind of youngsters coming up that we do. It would be different if Niskanen added something essential like being a PP QB, but he doesn't. He is a fine alrounder but eminently replaceable.
Orpik - Martin
Despres - Letang
Niskanen - Bortuzzo

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02-07-2013, 05:52 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by TakeYOrpik View Post
Despres offers everything Niskanen does plus more. With experience, he'll eliminate some of the mistakes he makes. But sitting on the bench, he's useless.

That said, with Bylsma coaching, Niskanen will get playing time. I think we'll eventually see Engelland being the odd man out
You say that like Bylsma is a special case there. If Niskanen is healthy, he should be playing. Every coach in the league would play him in our situation. And they should. I have no problem with trading him for the right return, but if he's on the roster and he's healthy, he damn well better be playing.

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02-07-2013, 09:09 PM
  #68
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You say that like Bylsma is a special case there. If Niskanen is healthy, he should be playing. Every coach in the league would play him in our situation. And they should. I have no problem with trading him for the right return, but if he's on the roster and he's healthy, he damn well better be playing.
So, who do you take out for Niskanen? Bortuzzo? **** no. Despres? By April (i.e., with more time), he'll be better than Niskanen.

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02-07-2013, 09:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So, who do you take out for Niskanen? Bortuzzo? **** no. Despres? By April (i.e., with more time), he'll be better than Niskanen.
Is Orpik/Martin really that much better than Orpik/Niskanen? Especially if Martin is coveted at the deadline by several teams?

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02-07-2013, 09:19 PM
  #70
wheelz87
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Niskanen was our best d-man before he got hurt, hope nobody forgets that. He comes back, Bortuzzo is out. Simple really.

Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Letang
Despres-Engelland
Bort

or I guess you could switch Despres and Nisky, whatever.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:25 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Is Orpik/Martin really that much better than Orpik/Niskanen? Especially if Martin is coveted at the deadline by several teams?
Yes, he's that much better right now than Niskanen was before he got hurt, and you know that I've hardly been a Martin apologist.

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02-07-2013, 09:31 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So, who do you take out for Niskanen? Bortuzzo? **** no. Despres? By April (i.e., with more time), he'll be better than Niskanen.
I'm all for taking out Engelland. I think he's had more than his fair share of trouble handling the puck.

Regardless, I think it's ****ing nuts if Nisky doesn't get back into the top 4. He and Letang made a really nice pairing.

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02-07-2013, 09:40 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So, who do you take out for Niskanen? Bortuzzo? **** no. Despres? By April (i.e., with more time), he'll be better than Niskanen.
Engelland.

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Is Orpik/Martin really that much better than Orpik/Niskanen?
Yes
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
Niskanen was our best d-man before he got hurt, hope nobody forgets that.
He was never our best anything. He was very good, but he was at best our 3rd best d-man.

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02-07-2013, 09:41 PM
  #74
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Engelland.
You see Bylsma doing that? I kind of figure he's the Craig Adams of the defense.

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Old
02-07-2013, 09:42 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by wheelz87 View Post
Niskanen was our best d-man before he got hurt, hope nobody forgets that. He comes back, Bortuzzo is out. Simple really.

Orpik-Martin
Niskanen-Letang
Despres-Engelland
Bort

or I guess you could switch Despres and Nisky, whatever.
I think it's simple that Engelland is sat and Bortuzzo gets his spot.

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