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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals: Version IV - Kings & Rangers are low..trade?

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Old
02-13-2013, 06:00 AM
  #1026
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by pooleboy View Post
its funny cause we had this predicament before. having 2 very good prospects at the same position (goaltending) and it came back to bite us in the ass because the guy we kept (pogge) crapped the bed and the better goaltender by advanced scouts, everyone whos watched him play (rask). i doubt nonis is going to make a big splash, hes big on this play the kids and be patient.
Eerily similar situations.

Trade a potential starting goaltender for a previous Calder winning starting goaltender and then complain about it forever when the prize turns out to be a back-up and out of the league a few years later.

Kind of like when the Flames had Bouwmeester and Phaneuf and wanted a 1st. line center and thought the 55 point Stajan would translate over to Calgary as the guy.

How about the Leafs help out the Avs.

Bozak, Komisarek, Colborne and Percy
for
Stastny

Stastny has 1 year left on his 6.6 contract.

Bozak and Komisarek add up to the 6.0 cap, but 5.0 salary. If they preferred someone like Kostka or Liles they could go there.

Then the Avs can sign their #1 center O'Reilly, to a long term deal with the Stastny money. A bit of an overlap on salary, but if he's everything we hear no problem.

U of Denver player Bozak could always re-sign with the Avs if it worked out.
U of Denver player Colborne would be in the system for the Avs.

Mind you maybe O'Reilly wants nothing to do with the Avs, and it isn't a contract issue that is keeping him out of the line-up?

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Vaive and Ludzik on collapse, and Phaneuf.
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Old
02-13-2013, 06:47 AM
  #1027
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
I agree, well except for the offer sheet. Gardiner is a great talent and can/is top 4 D as I don't think he has #1 D potential. Same goes for O'Reilly, his not a #1 but being a GREAT #2 along with being one of the best defensive centres.

I think Gardiner+mac/bozak for O'Reilly+2nd/3rd would be fair. If that were to happen, we could then trade Grabo and promote Kadri to 2nd line C.

I would try hard to keep Bozak for our 3rd line and ship Mac instead if we could.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer, as I can understand and respect those who wouldn't trade Gardiner. However the possibility of having one of the best defensive centres who can put up 55+ is very enticing.
I agree with this. As much as I like Gardiner, there arent really any good arguments for why he should be considered to have a higher ceiling than ROR. ROR is younger and has proven more at the NHL level.

I love two-way centres. Plus like you said, Grabo could be traded to recoup some of what we moved in order to get ROR, and I agree, I would want to try and keep Bozak and finally have him groomed in his proper place as a 3rd line C.

ROR doesnt project to be an elite top 5 centre in the league or anything. But he does look like he has the skill set to be similar to Bergeron, who was 1st line C on a SC winning team. Selke calibre two-way play + 65-75 pts potential. Thats what we'd be hoping for and I dont think that type of potential from him should be considered overly unrealistic seeing as he put up 55 pts and lead his team in scoring at the age of 20/21.

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Old
02-13-2013, 07:42 AM
  #1028
johnny_rudeboy
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People just dont realize just how important Gardiner (and Reilly) will be for us going forward. The league is becoming more and more defensive minded (good defensive systems) and the talent is much more evenly spread out. Having defenders with really high hockey IQ who can take the puck in their own zone and effortlessly skate up and put it in the other teams net is very difficult to defend against and will bring us much success. Age put aside, how many of these defenders are there in the league compared to good 2-way centers? I think finding a Gardiner is harder to do then to find a O´Reilly.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:07 AM
  #1029
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
People just dont realize just how important Gardiner (and Reilly) will be for us going forward. The league is becoming more and more defensive minded (good defensive systems) and the talent is much more evenly spread out. Having defenders with really high hockey IQ who can take the puck in their own zone and effortlessly skate up and put it in the other teams net is very difficult to defend against and will bring us much success. Age put aside, how many of these defenders are there in the league compared to good 2-way centers? I think finding a Gardiner is harder to do then to find a O´Reilly.
Do you not think an elite defensive top 6 forward would help us in that regard?

Defence is a team effort, and we have nothing in our system resembling a current or future Selke Calibre forward. ROR is that.

All the recent SC winners (since the last lockout) have had a Selke winner or nominee on their team. Elite two-way centres are very important IMO.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:34 AM
  #1030
johnny_rudeboy
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Do you not think an elite defensive top 6 forward would help us in that regard?

Defence is a team effort, and we have nothing in our system resembling a current or future Selke Calibre forward. ROR is that.

All the recent SC winners (since the last lockout) have had a Selke winner or nominee on their team. Elite two-way centres are very important IMO.
Of course I think an elite defensive top 6 forward would help us in that regard. If Ryan reilly is a top six forward or even elite I dont reilly know. But that is not the question here. It is what is more valuable and what is harder to find and I do believe finding smooth skating defenders with high hockey IQ is harder to get then 2-way centers.
And Gardiner still have the potential to become a top pairing defender whilst ROR dont have the potential to become a #1 center, well unless you are happy having some one like Horcoff being your #1 center.

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Old
02-13-2013, 08:54 AM
  #1031
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
Of course I think an elite defensive top 6 forward would help us in that regard. If Ryan reilly is a top six forward or even elite I dont reilly know. But that is not the question here. It is what is more valuable and what is harder to find and I do believe finding smooth skating defenders with high hockey IQ is harder to get then 2-way centers.
And Gardiner still have the potential to become a top pairing defender whilst ROR dont have the potential to become a #1 center,
well unless you are happy having some one like Horcoff being your #1 center.
Where do you get this stuff? ROR is younger and more proven... And yet Gardiner has top pairing potential and ROR definitely will never be a 1st line player? Makes zero sense. Unless of course its just classic Leaf Bias / former 1st round pick bias?

And I dont agreed that PMD are harder to find. We picked up a signed Liles for a late 2nd round pick. We havent had an elite two-way centre in a very very long time, if they were easy to get, we would have gotten one by now. Gardiner isnt considered to be exceptional defensively, he's not expected to become a Doughty type of guy, more of a Liles/Kaberle type of guy. Can run a PP, isnt overly physical, and is decent defensively but not going to do a great job going up against the oppositions best.

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Old
02-13-2013, 09:03 AM
  #1032
Guy Boucher
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
Where do you get this stuff? ROR is younger and more proven... And yet Gardiner has top pairing potential and ROR definitely will never be a 1st line player? Makes zero sense. Unless of course its just classic Leaf Bias / former 1st round pick bias?

And I dont agreed that PMD are harder to find. We picked up a signed Liles for a late 2nd round pick. We havent had an elite two-way centre in a very very long time, if they were easy to get, we would have gotten one by now. Gardiner isnt considered to be exceptional defensively, he's not expected to become a Doughty type of guy, more of a Liles/Kaberle type of guy. Can run a PP, isnt overly physical, and is decent defensively but not going to do a great job going up against the oppositions best.
I think it's Western Conference bias. Most people just haven't seen him play to know how good he is, and have to depend on reading stats sheets.

O'Reilly in particular is a player that is worth way more than his statistics indicate (hence the contract dispute).

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