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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals: Version IV - Kings & Rangers are low..trade?

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Old
02-07-2013, 11:59 AM
  #201
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
The only issue I see with this is that we may get a better return in terms of "potential" elsewhere.

Sending Kessel to Colorado immediately makes them a better team, thus weakens that 1st round picks value.

Ontop of that, ROR isn't exactly a proven commodity, nor does he have the raw talent that someone may be willing to give up for an established YOUNG player like Phil Kessel is.

Phil is only 25 years old and has has 30 goal seasons the past 4 years, and his last year he established himself at a PPG clip.

This can certainly garner more than ROR and a 1st.

If that is the only type of offer on the market, then Nonis is probably better off holding onto Phil Kessel as he can still be a building piece for this team considering Phil is the type of piece every playoff/contending team desires or needs at some point to put them over the hump.

If it wasn't for this lockout and Phil Kessel put up a 5th straight 30 goal season, that statistic would be in some pretty impressive company.
I would agree that we could probably get higher value. If Nonis wants to trade Kessel, he is in a very good situation to get a very strong return. He has just come off a top 10 point season, on the second last year of a decent deal and the new team could negotiate what they want with him. Maybe we will get some luck and a team will offer that package that give us the two core pieces we need going forward.

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02-07-2013, 12:00 PM
  #202
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My only problem with ROR is you have to give him a bloated contract for more then he currently deserves. If he was gonna sign a contract for fair value he'd be playing in Colorado right now.

Also have a hunch that extending Kessel is plan A and trading him is plan B. Not that it's a bad thing.

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02-07-2013, 12:02 PM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Sending Kessel to Colorado immediately makes them a better team, thus weakens that 1st round picks value.
This logic has been proven to false time and time again.

We ended up with a worse record after we got Kessel, Beachemin and Komi. Taking out ROR's game and inserting Kessel's, two completely different players, could make them worse too.

I think even with Kessel, they will finish bottom 10. Their defense is just not good enough this year.

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02-07-2013, 12:05 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
The question begs, which team is looking for that "gamebreaker" to take them to the next level? Moreover which team has the viable assets the Leafs are looking for?

I was initially thinking St Louis, but with the emergence of Tarasenko I don't see them being interested .. Nashville perhaps, but do they have the pieces? Minnesota is interesting but I don't know if they're necessarily looking..
Minnesota is looking.

It represents a very realistic option where Nonis can absorb cap and gather assets.

But they wont be the only option.

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02-07-2013, 12:05 PM
  #205
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Jeff Carter got Voracek and 8th pick.

Jeff Carter got JJ and a late 1st.

Kessel > Carter.

We'll get a nice return if the Leafs want to trade him..

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02-07-2013, 12:06 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Minnesota is looking.

It represents a very realistic option where Nonis can absorb cap and gather assets.

But they wont be the only option.
I can definitely see Minnesota in the running.

Dumba, Coyle 2nd for Kessel.

Close to the Mike Richards trade but...we're taking a lot of risk.

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02-07-2013, 12:08 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Minnesota is looking.

It represents a very realistic option where Nonis can absorb cap and gather assets.

But they wont be the only option.
Hey what are you hearing about this kessel situation?

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02-07-2013, 12:09 PM
  #208
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I really like the Ryan O'Reilly and a 1st round pick idea.

Perfect return. We get a C we can build around. He's not a legit 1st line C but he's damn young and will be our Patrice Bergeron type to build around. Also a C candidate if Phaneuf is not retained.

The 1st will likely be a high 1st.

Colorado gets a huge talent in Kessel and he goes off to the West.

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02-07-2013, 12:10 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by LeafsFan10 View Post
Hey what are you hearing about this kessel situation?
Go back one page.

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02-07-2013, 12:10 PM
  #210
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Do you guys think this Kessel situation could escalte very quickly?

I mean right now it doesnt seem like much but if the media starts asking kessel questions he could just ask to leave ?

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02-07-2013, 12:10 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
The only issue I see with this is that we may get a better return in terms of "potential" elsewhere.

Sending Kessel to Colorado immediately makes them a better team, thus weakens that 1st round picks value.
I'm not sure if it immediately makes them better.

We're talking about a team that finished in the bottom 1/3 of the league last year. Kessel's an upgrade over ROR, but its not so massive that it makes them a playoff team.

I think that 1st would still be a top 15 pick.

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02-07-2013, 12:11 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
Go back one page.
Just Saw Thanks

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:11 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
Minnesota is looking.

It represents a very realistic option where Nonis can absorb cap and gather assets.

But they wont be the only option.
I suggested Coyle, Backstrom, Clutterbuck and 1st for Kessel, Reimer and Blacker

would give the leafs tow Carlyle type players, a starting goalie and probably pick in the 20s which isn't great but Coyle is a good to great prospect and the pick could be used to trade up with the Leafs pick to get a key piece

If the value is that off maybe Hackett but i don't see him as much better than Scrives or Reimer

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02-07-2013, 12:14 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
I really like the Ryan O'Reilly and a 1st round pick idea.

Perfect return. We get a C we can build around. He's not a legit 1st line C but he's damn young and will be our Patrice Bergeron type to build around. Also a C candidate if Phaneuf is not retained.

The 1st will likely be a high 1st.

Colorado gets a huge talent in Kessel and he goes off to the West.
If Nonis is able to make this deal and the Colorado first is between #5 - 8, all of a sudden our centre depth going forward is as follows:

O'Reilly
Grabovski
Kadri
Monahan (potentially)

That really bodes well for the Leafs going forward, and would make moving Kessel a lot more palatable. I would consider moving Bozak with Kessel since they are best friends and would likely sign together.

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02-07-2013, 12:14 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
The only issue I see with this is that we may get a better return in terms of "potential" elsewhere.

Sending Kessel to Colorado immediately makes them a better team, thus weakens that 1st round picks value.

Ontop of that, ROR isn't exactly a proven commodity, nor does he have the raw talent that someone may be willing to give up for an established YOUNG player like Phil Kessel is.

Phil is only 25 years old and has has 30 goal seasons the past 4 years, and his last year he established himself at a PPG clip.

This can certainly garner more than ROR and a 1st.

If that is the only type of offer on the market, then Nonis is probably better off holding onto Phil Kessel as he can still be a building piece for this team considering Phil is the type of piece every playoff/contending team desires or needs at some point to put them over the hump.

If it wasn't for this lockout and Phil Kessel put up a 5th straight 30 goal season, that statistic would be in some pretty impressive company.
As an Avs fan your statement worries me greatly. I know that you have some insight.

I would run our GM out of town myself. And I live on another continent.
Do you know if this has been offered? I saw that you mentioned COL as a team that has called. And I could see Sherman in panic mode.

ROR + 1st for Kessel would kill our franchise.

Our guys are dropping like flies and our games are unwatchable right now because we have the most inept coach in the league and EJ + Wilson + 5 bottom pairing defensive dman + one Funwick.


We most definitely are picking Top10. I myself we are a serious contender for getting a Top5 pick if Landeskog does not return soon or if we suffer another major injury.

Kessel would not do much for us this year. We certainly are not a PO team with him. That means we give up a top 10 pick + a great 21 yr old center ( He would instantly become the most loved Leaf believe me)
for one year of Kessel. Even if we resign him, his contract would probably cripple us. Kroenke's are very wealthy and we are not on a budget but they don't seem to have interest in spending all too much on the Avs.

So can you please give me a headsup if there is a possibility of me having to buy a plane ticket to Denver and a bus ticket to Shermans house?

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02-07-2013, 12:19 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by NigelTufnel View Post
This is the one that I keep coming back to. It just seems to make a lot of sense for both teams.

COL gets a young, dynamic winger to play with either Duchene or Statsny, depending on the chemistry and because they're so deep at centre they can afford to move ROR.

We get a young, defensively responsible centre, who I think is ready to break out. I love the idea of having ROR and Kadri at centre going forward.

Plus we'd get another first rounder, that plus our own would go a long way to giving us a more enviable prospect pool.
I would only do this deal if we were to get Siemens as well. Heck I'd throw in Bozak as well. Siemens is very under-rated, especially for what he would bring to our team that seems to be missing from our D.

Listen to what HF has to say about the dude...

"A physical, in-your-face defender with size and an underrated offensive game, Siemens is the complete package. Capable of playing half of the game, Siemens is comfortable playing at both ends of the ice and in any situation, be it even-strength, with the man advantage or on the penalty kill."

Sounds like the solid responsible partner we keep talking about that would be perfect for Dion.

If we wanted to really expand the deal, throw in Liles and get Downie too. He's injured, and Liles would help them on the back end significantly. Colorado would be giving us two guys that aren't even playing, a prospect and a pick that would likely be 11-16.

To Colorado:
Kessel (5.5)
Bozak (UFA)
Liles (3.875)

To Toronto:
ROR (4.5)
Downie (2.65)
Siemens (1.4)
2013 1st Round Pick

JVR - ROR - Lupul
Frattin - Kadri - Downie
Kulemin - Grabo - Komarov

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02-07-2013, 12:20 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
As an Avs fan your statement worries me greatly. I know that you have some insight.

I would run our GM out of town myself. And I live on another continent.
Do you know if this has been offered? I saw that you mentioned COL as a team that has called. And I could see Sherman in panic mode.

ROR + 1st for Kessel would kill our franchise.

Our guys are dropping like flies and our games are unwatchable right now because we have the most inept coach in the league and EJ + Wilson + 5 bottom pairing defensive dman + one Funwick.


We most definitely are picking Top10. I myself we are a serious contender for getting a Top5 pick if Landeskog does not return soon or if we suffer another major injury.

Kessel would not do much for us this year. We certainly are not a PO team with him. That means we give up a top 10 pick + a great 21 yr old center ( He would instantly become the most loved Leaf believe me)
for one year of Kessel. Even if we resign him, his contract would probably cripple us. Kroenke's are very wealthy and we are not on a budget but they don't seem to have interest in spending all too much on the Avs.

So can you please give me a headsup if there is a possibility of me having to buy a plane ticket to Denver and a bus ticket to Shermans house?
Don't start loading the pistol yet, it's all speculation bud.

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Old
02-07-2013, 12:22 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
As an Avs fan your statement worries me greatly. I know that you have some insight.

I would run our GM out of town myself. And I live on another continent.
Do you know if this has been offered? I saw that you mentioned COL as a team that has called. And I could see Sherman in panic mode.

ROR + 1st for Kessel would kill our franchise.

Our guys are dropping like flies and our games are unwatchable right now because we have the most inept coach in the league and EJ + Wilson + 5 bottom pairing defensive dman + one Funwick.


We most definitely are picking Top10. I myself we are a serious contender for getting a Top5 pick if Landeskog does not return soon or if we suffer another major injury.

Kessel would not do much for us this year. We certainly are not a PO team with him. That means we give up a top 10 pick + a great 21 yr old center ( He would instantly become the most loved Leaf believe me)
for one year of Kessel. Even if we resign him, his contract would probably cripple us. Kroenke's are very wealthy and we are not on a budget but they don't seem to have interest in spending all too much on the Avs.

So can you please give me a headsup if there is a possibility of me having to buy a plane ticket to Denver and a bus ticket to Shermans house?

Haha I certainly think it is an option for Avs managment if they do not believe ROR will be a piece of your core in the future.

We can safely assume the Avs pick will be a lottery pick, which is what should be in a Kessel package, and there will be teams willing to pay it.

Colorado has some great pieces in place and adding a Phil Kessel to the fold could answer some questions for the franchise, all while opening other question marks.

It's not a move where Avs fans would be unanimous in celebrating the acquisition but certainly would win some over when they get to see Kessel produce at a PPG clip with a real Center beside him.

I don't see Kessel being moved until another 10 games or so (if at all), or at least until there is a clearer picture as to what teams are going to be winners, pretenders or basement dwellers.

If Nonis wants to explore his FULL options, this is the year before Kessel's limited NMC kicks in if I recall correctly.

As another posted said, its purely speculation at this point as Nonis hold his cards very close.

The only thing that has come to the forefront is that for the first time, is that the phones lines are open for Phil Kessel calls and a handful of teams have already just ever so gently kicked some tires.

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02-07-2013, 12:22 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Cool Hand Luke View Post
I would only do this deal if we were to get Siemens as well. Heck I'd throw in Bozak as well. Siemens is very under-rated, especially for what he would bring to our team that seems to be missing from our D.

Listen to what HF has to say about the dude...

"A physical, in-your-face defender with size and an underrated offensive game, Siemens is the complete package. Capable of playing half of the game, Siemens is comfortable playing at both ends of the ice and in any situation, be it even-strength, with the man advantage or on the penalty kill."

Sounds like the solid responsible partner we keep talking about that would be perfect for Dion.

If we wanted to really expand the deal, throw in Liles and get Downie too. He's injured, and Liles would help them on the back end significantly. Colorado would be giving us two guys that aren't even playing, a prospect and a pick that would likely be 11-16.

To Colorado:
Kessel (5.5)
Bozak (UFA)
Liles (3.875)

To Toronto:
ROR (4.5)
Downie (2.65)
Siemens (1.4)
2013 1st Round Pick

JVR - ROR - Lupul
Frattin - Kadri - Downie
Kulemin - Grabo - Komarov
I like this idea , maybe not Downie but overall good move
and reading the Avs fan response makes me want it to go down even more

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02-07-2013, 12:28 PM
  #220
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Haha I certainly think it is an option for Avs managment if they do not believe ROR will be a piece of your core in the future.

We can safely assume the Avs pick will be a lottery pick, which is what should be in a Kessel package, and there will be teams willing to pay it.

Colorado has some great pieces in place and adding a Phil Kessel to the fold could answer some questions for the franchise, all while opening other question marks.

It's not a move where Avs fans would be unanimous in celebrating the acquisition but certainly would win some over when they get to see Kessel produce at a PPG clip with a real Center beside him.

I don't see Kessel being moved until another 10 games or so (if at all), or at least until there is a clearer picture as to what teams are going to be winners, pretenders or basement dwellers.

If Nonis wants to explore his FULL options, this is the year before Kessel's limited NMC kicks in if I recall correctly.

As another posted said, its purely speculation at this point as Nonis hold his cards very close.

The only thing that has come to the forefront is that for the first time, is that the phones lines are open for Phil Kessel calls and a handful of teams have already just ever so gently kicked some tires.
This is prob asking too much but do you have any idea wha kind of package nonis is looking for?

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02-07-2013, 12:32 PM
  #221
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This is prob asking too much but do you have any idea wha kind of package nonis is looking for?
No idea to be completely honest.

You'll probably get those specifics from Dreger before the likes of me! lol

It has been said that Nonis doesn't want to completely blow this thing up as several pieces are Nonis pieces, and he does like aspects of what Burke has accumulated.

So he does believe they are on the right path, and with that said we wont see a complete rebuild.

When you take that into consideration, we may look at something like the return Jeff Carter got as a guideline or blueprint. A younger NHL ready player, a 1st round pick and potentially a good prospect. But Nonis also has the guts to pull the trigger on a simple star-for-star swap, but I dont think he does it considering he's not as sold as Burke was on this team.

If Nonis doesn't get that sort of return then he may very well hold onto Phil, as we arn't exactly losing out by keeping Phil Kessel!

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02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
  #222
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This is prob asking too much but do you have any idea wha kind of package nonis is looking for?
Dreger said Nonis is looking for a very good young defenseman or forward plus a high pick.

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02-07-2013, 12:33 PM
  #223
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Haha I certainly think it is an option for Avs managment if they do not believe ROR will be a piece of your core in the future.

We can safely assume the Avs pick will be a lottery pick, which is what should be in a Kessel package, and there will be teams willing to pay it.

Colorado has some great pieces in place and adding a Phil Kessel to the fold could answer some questions for the franchise, all while opening other question marks.

It's not a move where Avs fans would be unanimous in celebrating the acquisition but certainly would win some over when they get to see Kessel produce at a PPG clip with a real Center beside him.

I don't see Kessel being moved until another 10 games or so (if at all), or at least until there is a clearer picture as to what teams are going to be winners, pretenders or basement dwellers.

If Nonis wants to explore his FULL options, this is the year before Kessel's limited NMC kicks in if I recall correctly.

As another posted said, its purely speculation at this point as Nonis hold his cards very close.

The only thing that has come to the forefront is that for the first time, is that the phones lines are open for Phil Kessel calls and a handful of teams have already just ever so gently kicked some tires.
Ok thanks for the headsup. Is Kessel for ROR + 1st an offer you'd like to see, or do you have a lets call it hunch if that is what the Leafs would be asking for or is it 'gulp' what the Avs could be offering?

I don't think you would find any Avs fan happy with this deal when it is made. If Kessel scores a few who knows. Still think it will be a franchise ruining moment if it happens.

And you should get a lottery pick in return for Kessel.
But looking at this draft and me being a homer, I normally would not deal ROR for anything short of a Top 4 pick in this draft.

And two possible top 5 picks for one year of Kessel would kill my interest in the Avs basically.
We are going nowhere under this coach and our management is too stubborn/greedy to fire him for 2 years and counting.
If they panic trade before firing Sacco I might as well jump on the Leafs bandwagon together with ROR. And yeah saying that hurt pretty bad.

Edit: I could see something happening around ROR (+) for Kessel.
But The first should and hopefully would kill any deal instantly. We are in the same boat as you guys. We can't really afford to trade it.

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02-07-2013, 12:35 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
No idea to be completely honest.

You'll probably get those specifics from Dreger before the likes of me! lol

It has been said that Nonis doesn't want to completely blow this thing up as several pieces are Nonis pieces, and he does like aspects of what Burke has accumulated.

So he does believe they are on the right path, and with that said we wont see a complete rebuild.

When you take that into consideration, we may look at something like the return Jeff Carter got as a guideline or blueprint. A younger NHL ready player, a 1st round pick and potentially a good prospect. But Nonis also has the guts to pull the trigger on a simple star-for-star swap, but I dont think he does it considering he's not as sold as Burke was on this team.

If Nonis doesn't get that sort of return then he may very well hold onto Phil, as we arn't exactly losing out by keeping Phil Kessel!
Well i know your reliable ( dreger is too) but your easier to get info out of......

Keep me/us updated

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02-07-2013, 12:36 PM
  #225
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Dreger said Nonis is looking for a very good young defenseman or forward plus a high pick.
I just remembered that....A guy i love it OEL i know we prob wont get him but when i heard kessel might be avail hes the first guy that popped in my head


I WANT HIM!!!

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