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The strange case of Iain Duncan

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02-06-2013, 03:29 PM
  #1
Scheifele55
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The strange case of Iain Duncan

I remember him as a child being a good Jets player. In 1988-89 he had 44 points in 57 games and then the next year played all but 2 games in the AHL and that was it. What happened to him and does anyone remember why he was demoted only to really never return?

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02-06-2013, 03:31 PM
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http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Legen...4#.URLLaB3AdIE

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02-06-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
I remember him as a child being a good Jets player. In 1988-89 he had 44 points in 57 games and then the next year played all but 2 games in the AHL and that was it. What happened to him and does anyone remember why he was demoted only to really never return?
What I recall is that he was not a very good player but was put in a position to succeed, score points and did that initially. Then talent caught up to him , or lack thereof.

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02-06-2013, 03:36 PM
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He coaches hockey in Toledo now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnVmX4_9rss

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02-06-2013, 05:44 PM
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sting13
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The answer as to what happened is Mike Smith.
Not the Phoenix goalie but the Jets GM at the time.
I actually met Slam Duncan at Jets training camp back in the day when you
could walk right up to their dressing room.

He gave me a stick and signed it. I wished him luck for the season with the Jets
and he said I won't be playing here. Mike Smith took over as GM half way through
the previous season and really hated him and even though Detroit was trying to trade
for him, Smith was going to bury him in the minors instead of trading him.

I was shocked that he shared it with me but no one was around at the time and I think
he needed to get it off his chest. Duncan was shaken that day and Smith ruined his
career. Look at his numbers and he was doing well both in the NHL and minors.
He got shafted.

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02-06-2013, 06:16 PM
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Tdoe42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sting13 View Post
The answer as to what happened is Mike Smith.
Not the Phoenix goalie but the Jets GM at the time.
I actually met Slam Duncan at Jets training camp back in the day when you
could walk right up to their dressing room.

He gave me a stick and signed it. I wished him luck for the season with the Jets
and he said I won't be playing here. Mike Smith took over as GM half way through
the previous season and really hated him and even though Detroit was trying to trade
for him, Smith was going to bury him in the minors instead of trading him.

I was shocked that he shared it with me but no one was around at the time and I think
he needed to get it off his chest. Duncan was shaken that day and Smith ruined his
career. Look at his numbers and he was doing well both in the NHL and minors.
He got shafted.
Id say that sounds crazy and is a Lie no one would do that but Mike Smith was such a Bad GM that there is no doubt in my mind that that is true

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02-06-2013, 06:28 PM
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sting13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tdoe42 View Post
Id say that sounds crazy and is a Lie no one would do that but Mike Smith was such a Bad GM that there is no doubt in my mind that that is true
I know what your saying and I swear on my kids life this is true.
Smith was awful.

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02-06-2013, 06:53 PM
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Gm0ney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sting13 View Post
I know what your saying and I swear on my kids life this is true.
Smith was awful.
Smith was awful. Chased Phil Housley out of town, drafted Sergei Bautin 17th overall (and people say Scheifele was a reach?). He should've been fired on the spot for either of those (he didn't last very long after the Housley thing). Jets 1.0 made a huge mistake letting him anywhere near the levers of power.

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02-06-2013, 06:59 PM
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When you think about it, Jets 1.0 were a total amateur hour compared to what we have now (off the ice, I mean).

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02-06-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gm0ney View Post
Smith was awful. Chased Phil Housley out of town, drafted Sergei Bautin 17th overall (and people say Scheifele was a reach?). He should've been fired on the spot for either of those (he didn't last very long after the Housley thing). Jets 1.0 made a huge mistake letting him anywhere near the levers of power.
You could make the argument he was the worst GM of all time, never mind in Jet's history.

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02-06-2013, 09:14 PM
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razorsedge
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Mike Smith chased off Hawerchuk to.

I could be wrong but I believe Mike Smith was awarded something as NHL executive of the year or something along those lines a few years ago.

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02-06-2013, 10:13 PM
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Jet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
You could make the argument he was the worst GM of all time, never mind in Jet's history.
As questionable as some of Mike Smith's decisions were, he ushered in the Russian age in the NHL. I loved watching Zhamnov, Mironov, Davydov, Khabibulin, and Korolev, and you can thank Mike Smith for that. He also drafted Keith Tkachuk.

One of the best NHL era Winnipeg Jets teams was assembled by Mike Smith. Saying he was the worst ever when guys like Mike Millbury have been a GM is pretty hard to agree with.

Also saying that he chased off Hawerchuk AND Housely (I know it was two separate people) is disingenuous. He traded Hawerchuk for Housley, who just happened to have 92 assists the year Selanne broke the rookie record. Also keep in mind that he was under SEVERE budget restrictions and still managed to have a team that was competitive most years.

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02-06-2013, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingBogo View Post
You could make the argument he was the worst GM of all time, never mind in Jet's history.
Mike Milbury would contest that.

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02-06-2013, 10:26 PM
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blainus
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mike smith was the funniest guy...it always looked like he had just gone on a week long bender everytime they showed him on tv....

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02-06-2013, 10:28 PM
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broinwhyteridge
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I hear Mike is running his own Lada dealership somewhere. True or scurrilous rumour mongering?

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02-06-2013, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blainus View Post
mike smith was the funniest guy...it always looked like he had just gone on a week long bender everytime they showed him on tv....
Haha yep. discheveled hair, tie loose, wrinkled shirt.

The guy was really cerebral. Not a pure hockey guy but a Billy Beane type. He was a revolutionary.

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02-07-2013, 12:06 AM
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!!!!

Michael Smith

Dr. Smith is a businessman and a leading figure in the field of professional ice hockey. He has held many responsible positions, having served as associate general manager for the Toronto Maple Leafs and as general manager for the Winnipeg Jets and later for the Chicago Blackhawks. He has played a leading role in Team USA Hockey, having served several times as the coach and general manager for the team at the IIHF World Hockey Championships. He has authored 11 books related to coaching in hockey. He currently serves on the Board of Advisors for the Maxwell School.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...-geniuses.html LOL
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...ee-agency.html
http://www.thehockeynews.com/article...ble-trade.html

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02-07-2013, 12:28 AM
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Gm0ney
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Dr. Smith needs a nose hair trimmer.

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02-07-2013, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet View Post
As questionable as some of Mike Smith's decisions were, he ushered in the Russian age in the NHL. I loved watching Zhamnov, Mironov, Davydov, Khabibulin, and Korolev, and you can thank Mike Smith for that. He also drafted Keith Tkachuk.

One of the best NHL era Winnipeg Jets teams was assembled by Mike Smith. Saying he was the worst ever when guys like Mike Millbury have been a GM is pretty hard to agree with.

Also saying that he chased off Hawerchuk AND Housely (I know it was two separate people) is disingenuous. He traded Hawerchuk for Housley, who just happened to have 92 assists the year Selanne broke the rookie record. Also keep in mind that he was under SEVERE budget restrictions and still managed to have a team that was competitive most years.
I believe Korolev was ushered in by the Blues. Jets claimed him in what was then called the waiver draft.

Smith did bring in some pretty good talent, but I mostly remember being sold "broken promises" on young up and comers from Russia who mostly failed to amount to anything.

Prospects like Sergei Sorokin, Yan Kaminsky, Ravil Gusmanov, Dimitri Fillimonov, Harije Vitolinsh, Ruslam Batryshin and Sergei Kharin. WOW ... that's a blast from the past

It just amazes me that for someone who adored the Russians like he did, Smith sure missed out on some high quality Russians between 1989 and 1993. Players like Fedorov, Bure, Konstantinov, Zubov, Zhitnik, Malakhov, Nemchinov, Kravchuk and Zelepukin to name a few. All of which were drafted between the 4th and 12th rounds.

Hindsight is 20/20 but damn, snagging some of those instead of the list of the former JETS prospects above, may have changed the team's fortunes.


Last edited by untouchable21: 02-07-2013 at 02:22 AM.
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02-07-2013, 06:29 AM
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Scheifele55
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Got bumped by Greg Paslawski and Paul McDiarmid. Another reason why the Jets sucked in v 1.0

as for a bad GM John Furguson was worse:

1979 - Jimmy Mann over Michel Goulet
1980 - Babych over Savard/Murphy/Coffey
1982 - Kyte over Andreychuk
1983 - McBain over Neely
1985 - Stewart over Richter/Roberts/Burke
1986 - Elyniuk over Leetch

He was replaced in the 1988-89 season I believe. In most cases the player I list "over" was the very next selection. 1981 we had Hawerchuk the consensus #1 pick, 1984 we dealt our 1st rounder for Randy Carlyle, 1987 it as a tossup - Marchment or Cassels taken next
1988 was Teemu Selanne

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02-07-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Got bumped by Greg Paslawski and Paul McDiarmid. Another reason why the Jets sucked in v 1.0

as for a bad GM John Furguson was worse:

1979 - Jimmy Mann over Michel Goulet
1980 - Babych over Savard/Murphy/Coffey
1982 - Kyte over Andreychuk
1983 - McBain over Neely
1985 - Stewart over Richter/Roberts/Burke
1986 - Elyniuk over Leetch

He was replaced in the 1988-89 season I believe. In most cases the player I list "over" was the very next selection. 1981 we had Hawerchuk the consensus #1 pick, 1984 we dealt our 1st rounder for Randy Carlyle, 1987 it as a tossup - Marchment or Cassels taken next
1988 was Teemu Selanne

It's easy to say that now, but were those players ranked higher at the time of the draft?

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02-07-2013, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Jet View Post
As questionable as some of Mike Smith's decisions were, he ushered in the Russian age in the NHL. I loved watching Zhamnov, Mironov, Davydov, Khabibulin, and Korolev, and you can thank Mike Smith for that. He also drafted Keith Tkachuk.

One of the best NHL era Winnipeg Jets teams was assembled by Mike Smith. Saying he was the worst ever when guys like Mike Millbury have been a GM is pretty hard to agree with.

Also saying that he chased off Hawerchuk AND Housely (I know it was two separate people) is disingenuous. He traded Hawerchuk for Housley, who just happened to have 92 assists the year Selanne broke the rookie record. Also keep in mind that he was under SEVERE budget restrictions and still managed to have a team that was competitive most years.
Smith definitely brought in a lot of Russians, so if there is some credit to be given there I guess he can have it.

My problem is that he had an almost blind devotion to his "Russian skill, North American grit" philosophy, which made him value some Russian players way more than they should have been. And then conversely, totally ignoring a North American skill guy.

He did definitely chase off Housley though. The story is that Housley took a swing at him at a Jet function (I think Christmas party?).

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02-07-2013, 11:18 AM
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Scheifele55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Got bumped by Greg Paslawski and Paul McDiarmid. Another reason why the Jets sucked in v 1.0

as for a bad GM John Furguson was worse:

1979 - Jimmy Mann over Michel Goulet
1980 - Babych over Savard/Murphy/Coffey
1982 - Kyte over Andreychuk
1983 - McBain over Neely
1985 - Stewart over Richter/Roberts/Burke
1986 - Elyniuk over LeetcH
It is irrelevant who was rated higher, a GMs role in the draft is to choose the best player the team sees fit and will make the biggest impact.

Jimmy Mann was a flop
Babych was good but nothing like the other 3
Kyte was a tall bum
McBain could score here and there but was never a Neely
Stewart was their biggest bust in the Ferguson era.
Elyniuk had a few good seasons but Brian Leetch is well, Brian Leetch.

The thing is, these players may have developed into superstars on other teams but on the Jets team tehy were constantly surrounded by role players and had few top notch players.

Hawerchuk during this period was a perrenial all-star, Paul McLean was their sniper of sorts, Steen was talented but injured, Ellett was a good defenseman, Olausson was good offensively however for everyone of them there was so many Doug Smail, Laurie Boschman (who had 3 very good years, then we dealt him for Bob Brooke who didnt play a game for us), Gilles Hamel, Tim Watters, Mario Marois who were honestly nothing special. Winnipeg NEVER had a solid goaltender. Hayward during the 80s would have to have been our best and we dealt him for Steve Penny a prospect who was playing well on a defensive minded Canadiens and Jan Ingman a 1st round pick in 1981 who NEVER left Sweden. So in essence we dealt our best goaltender for a prospect goaltender. He traded Dave Christian a solid offensive player for a 1st rounder (Bobby Dollas), he traded Brian Mullen another offensive player for draft picks. Paul McLean was moved for Brent Ashton another role player. It just seemed that every single trade John Furguson made, made the team worse than it already was.

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02-07-2013, 11:37 AM
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HannuJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Smith definitely brought in a lot of Russians, so if there is some credit to be given there I guess he can have it.

My problem is that he had an almost blind devotion to his "Russian skill, North American grit" philosophy, which made him value some Russian players way more than they should have been. And then conversely, totally ignoring a North American skill guy.

He did definitely chase off Housley though. The story is that Housley took a swing at him at a Jet function (I think Christmas party?).
he tapped him on the head during a party (rudely)


also, lest we forget Jason Cirone. you know, the draft pick who because "famous" for his play in a roller hockey league

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02-07-2013, 11:41 AM
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Gm0ney
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
It is irrelevant who was rated higher, a GMs role in the draft is to choose the best player the team sees fit and will make the biggest impact.

Jimmy Mann was a flop
Babych was good but nothing like the other 3
Kyte was a tall bum
McBain could score here and there but was never a Neely
Stewart was their biggest bust in the Ferguson era.
Elyniuk had a few good seasons but Brian Leetch is well, Brian Leetch.

The thing is, these players may have developed into superstars on other teams but on the Jets team tehy were constantly surrounded by role players and had few top notch players.

Hawerchuk during this period was a perrenial all-star, Paul McLean was their sniper of sorts, Steen was talented but injured, Ellett was a good defenseman, Olausson was good offensively however for everyone of them there was so many Doug Smail, Laurie Boschman (who had 3 very good years, then we dealt him for Bob Brooke who didnt play a game for us), Gilles Hamel, Tim Watters, Mario Marois who were honestly nothing special. Winnipeg NEVER had a solid goaltender. Hayward during the 80s would have to have been our best and we dealt him for Steve Penny a prospect who was playing well on a defensive minded Canadiens and Jan Ingman a 1st round pick in 1981 who NEVER left Sweden. So in essence we dealt our best goaltender for a prospect goaltender. He traded Dave Christian a solid offensive player for a 1st rounder (Bobby Dollas), he traded Brian Mullen another offensive player for draft picks. Paul McLean was moved for Brent Ashton another role player. It just seemed that every single trade John Furguson made, made the team worse than it already was.
Don't forget Dave Babych for Ray Neufeld in the pantheon of awful trades. And in your list of Jets role players, you left out Lucien DeBlois! Mark Kumple! Jim Nill! How did this team not trounce the Oilers every year?!

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