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Pens eyeing Kulemin

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Old
02-06-2013, 07:22 PM
  #301
Pierre Gotye
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsessedCreative View Post
Heard that same crap before about Poni...
When Kulemin was in top form, he was a much better player than Poni was, and I was a big Poni fan when he was in Toronto.

Kulemin is definitely faster, has a better shot, has more overall puck skills and is more willing to be dirty along the boards than Poni was.

I do still like Kulemin, but I do wonder he he can ever regain his 30 goal form.

Kulemin's the kind of guy you want though, who, theoretically can be put into any situation, on any line.

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02-06-2013, 07:23 PM
  #302
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Kulemin for Maata.
1 for 1.

Kuly is such a confusing player. Two years ago I would have made a case that he was our most valuable player (yes Kessel included). Since then it seems that anytime he gets the puck, he fumbles it. Only Malkin could fix him at this point.

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02-06-2013, 07:24 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Kulemin for Maata.
1 for 1.

Kuly is such a confusing player. Two years ago I would have made a case that he was our most valuable player (yes Kessel included). Since then it seems that anytime he gets the puck, he fumbles it. Only Malkin could fix him at this point.
Done!

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02-06-2013, 07:25 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Kulemin for Maata.
1 for 1.

Kuly is such a confusing player. Two years ago I would have made a case that he was our most valuable player (yes Kessel included). Since then it seems that anytime he gets the puck, he fumbles it. Only Malkin could fix him at this point.
Deal

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02-06-2013, 07:25 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
He isn't worth Maatta, a second and Bluegger. That is too much. I value second round picks in this draft.
Look, it doesn't matter what you value or even what I value.

Ray Shero has a maximum that he'd be willing to pay.

Dave Nonis has a minumum that he'd be willing to accept.

IF Savard and Waddell were in Toronto to see Kulemin (and, again, it's just as likely Kessel), then Shero thinks the potential for a deal is there, I would assume based on the most preliminary conversations.

So, play the 'what could Shero conceivably give that Nonis conceivably could want' game.

All I could come up with was something with Niskanen or something like Blueger, Maatta, 2nd.

Any other suggestion?

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02-06-2013, 07:26 PM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Kulemin for Maata.
1 for 1.

Kuly is such a confusing player. Two years ago I would have made a case that he was our most valuable player (yes Kessel included). Since then it seems that anytime he gets the puck, he fumbles it. Only Malkin could fix him at this point.
****, I take back my offer above. Done deal. No give backs.

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02-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
When Kulemin was in top form, he was a much better player than Poni was, and I was a big Poni fan when he was in Toronto.

Kulemin is definitely faster, has a better shot, has more overall puck skills and is more willing to be dirty along the boards than Poni was.

I do still like Kulemin, but I do wonder he he can ever regain his 30 goal form.

Kulemin's the kind of guy you want though, who, theoretically can be put into any situation, on any line.
So, tell me, IF Shero and Nonis are talking about Kulemin, then what do you think Shero conceivably could give that Nonis conceivably could want? Try to look at it from both GM's perspectives.

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02-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #308
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I don't think these two teams make good trading partners. The Pens have a nice cupboard of D prospects but its not what the Leafs need.

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02-06-2013, 07:28 PM
  #309
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Kulemin for Neal

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02-06-2013, 07:31 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I don't think these two teams make good trading partners. The Pens have a nice cupboard of D prospects but its not what the Leafs need.
Sorry to break it to you, but Pittsburgh is the only team who will give up value for Kulemin. They value him higher than any other team because they know who's going to play with him and what that player will do for him.

Not only that, but we've got to consider it for Toronto. Kulemin is losing value by the day, and once he's an impending free agent. Forget it, we're talking about a 3rd round pick at the deadline. He sucks and we need to look to replace him at some point.

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02-06-2013, 07:32 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by TmlHockeyFan View Post
Kulemin for Neal
counter: Tangradi for Kessel

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02-06-2013, 07:33 PM
  #312
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
I don't think these two teams make good trading partners. The Pens have a nice cupboard of D prospects but its not what the Leafs need.
With prospects, it's not always just about need.

The Pens didn't need more defensive prospects going into the draft. They walked out with Pouliot, Maatta, and Dumoulin. Ray Shero's thinking-- and IMO a lot of GM's think this way-- is that you NEVER can have enough good defensive prospects.

It was because they were stacked through the organization on defense that Alex Gologoski was pretty much expendable, and four years into his playing career he netted Neal and Niskanen.

I don't see the deal either . . . only ones I could see are something around Maatta plus (where the plus is a 2nd or a 2nd and Blueger) OR an outside the box move like Niskanen, who would be at worst the undisputed 5th best defenseman on the Leafs.

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02-06-2013, 07:33 PM
  #313
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Ponikarovsky was half the player Kuli is at his age.

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02-06-2013, 07:35 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Not only that, but we've got to consider it for Toronto. Kulemin is losing value by the day, and once he's an impending free agent. Forget it, we're talking about a 3rd round pick at the deadline. He sucks and we need to look to replace him at some point.
Use Hamilton for the rest of the season.

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02-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Ponikarovsky was half the player Kuli is at his age.
Considering Ponikarovsky wasn't worth half a moldy sandwich that's not saying much...

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02-06-2013, 07:36 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Use Hamilton for the rest of the season.
Kuly may be bad, but he still puts Hamilton to shame.

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02-06-2013, 07:38 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Sorry to break it to you, but Pittsburgh is the only team who will give up value for Kulemin. They value him higher than any other team because they know who's going to play with him and what that player will do for him.

Not only that, but we've got to consider it for Toronto. Kulemin is losing value by the day, and once he's an impending free agent. Forget it, we're talking about a 3rd round pick at the deadline. He sucks and we need to look to replace him at some point.
You know, that's the flip side of the coin that people don't discuss.

Kulemin will be one of two things for the Leafs. He'll either be the player he is now (and he's a really nice player . . . I'm not knocking him in even the slightest) or he'll be used as a piece for a high end talent. BUT, as I keep saying, another team will see him as a 2nd/3rd line tweener who plays a nice two way game and might become a consistent 45-50 point scorer. A player like that is, at best, the 3rd most valuable piece in a deal for a high end talent.

Now, Maatta or Maatta plus doesn't fill the void. BUT, I'd bet that, right now, to another team, Maatta has more trade value as part of a package for a high end talent than Kulemin. IMO, Kulemin > Maatta if you never plan to lose Kulemin. Maatta > Kulemin if you think he's gone after next year OR your goal is to put the player into a package for a high end talent.

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02-06-2013, 07:38 PM
  #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
So, tell me, IF Shero and Nonis are talking about Kulemin, then what do you think Shero conceivably could give that Nonis conceivably could want? Try to look at it from both GM's perspectives.
Niskanen is an interesting piece..

Not saying I'd do it though.

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02-06-2013, 07:38 PM
  #319
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look if you guys really want to see malkin and kulemin play together you can have kessel grabovski and phaneuf

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02-06-2013, 07:39 PM
  #320
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Pittsburgh isn't going to trade any roster players. They have a lot of high end defensive prospects & picks if they were going make move on him.

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02-06-2013, 07:39 PM
  #321
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Kulemin for Maata.
1 for 1.

Kuly is such a confusing player. Two years ago I would have made a case that he was our most valuable player (yes Kessel included). Since then it seems that anytime he gets the puck, he fumbles it. Only Malkin could fix him at this point.
I would take this deal or:

Kulemin + Blacker for Maata + 2nd

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02-06-2013, 07:40 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Considering Ponikarovsky wasn't worth half a moldy sandwich that's not saying much...


At least you get the point.

The Leafs should definitely keep Kulie if they can't get what they need. If you asked Leafs fans, 99.99% would agree. Ponikarovsky on the other hand, good riddance!

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02-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #323
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post


At least you get the point.

The Leafs should definitely keep Kulie if they can't get what they need. If you asked Leafs fans, 99.99% would agree. Ponikarovsky on the other hand, good riddance!
Wait, what do we need?

How do we NOT need a guy like Maata?

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02-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #324
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Kulemin's size is probably one of the reasons we've won 5 games this year.

Obviously, the offensive production hasn't been there, but we don't have anyone to replace him.

One could reasonably conclude that the Pens would value Kulemin greater than the Leafs because of his chemistry with Malkin, but that value isn't some defensive prospect with absolutely no hope of playing a top 4 role in the NHL this year or next.

Realistically, if a team wants Kulemin, they're going to have to give up something valuable off their roster. The only deal to be made here is a hockey trade, not a futures deal. Brandon Sutter is somebody that might get the conversation going, as would Simon Despres, but when you dive deeper, there certainly doesn't seem to be a deal here.

If the Leafs were to trade Kulemin, they'd be looking for a player exactly like him.... maybe a deal along the lines of Kulemin + Holzer for Despres + Kennedy... but I suspect Pens fans wouldn't be too happy with that deal, and even though Despres is 6'4, he may not be suited to a defensive core where Gardiner & Rielly are a huge part of the plan.

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02-06-2013, 07:42 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post


At least you get the point.

The Leafs should definitely keep Kulie if they can't get what they need. If you asked Leafs fans, 99.99% would agree. Ponikarovsky on the other hand, good riddance!
because 99% of fans still see him as the 30 goal scorer not the third liner he actually is.

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