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Pens eyeing Kulemin

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02-07-2013, 02:02 PM
  #701
Honour Over Glory
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As a Pens fan, I wouldn't give up any of our D prospects for Kulemin. He's very inconsistent and yeah he's not on a solid team, but he gets enough ice time to show what he can do and he gets a lot of top 6 minutes to make it happen and he hasn't...outside of 1 season and that's a distant memory at this point.

A 1st is also way too much in a very deep draft. The most I would part with is Jeffrey + 2nd. If that's not enough then that's fine. I'd rather take our chances with what we've got at this point than give up a promising young defenseman. Orpik and Martin won't be around forever and Engelland got his act together late in his career, these guys will be replaced in a couple of years and I'd rather it be from within.

Yeah my fellow Pens fans said "well Shero could always flip one of the stud d-men for forwards"...well I'd rather it was for someone that showed a little more consistency.

Toronto can hang on to Kulemin.

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02-07-2013, 02:02 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
And how many years, at age 33 does Dupuis have left? Do you think because he busts his ass that he would put up these kinds of numbers on the Leafs? I don't think so.

Maybe you Pens fans shouldn't be commenting about 'Kumy' who's nickname is actually "Kulie,' because I don't believe you watch him and know about him either.

There is no way I'd trade a 33 year old for a 26 year old...and I don't think most people would unless that 33 year old was clearly a superstar, which I don't consider Dupuis to be. He's a complimentary forward. Good for him he's putting up decent numbers, and he busts ass...but not a guy I'd give up 'Kumy' for.
The age thing makes perfect sense and is all that needs to be said about it. There is not much difference between those players in terms of production or the situations they play in, so it would be a lateral move for the Pens and a bad one for the Leafs getting older.

The offense was more taken at finding plethora of excuses for Kuleminīs 7 goals while also explaining away the goals Dupuis scored. If Kuleminīs worth does not lie in his points totals, neither does Dupuis. And if Dupuis stepping up big and potting 25 while Crosby is down is a career year to be discounted, so is Kuleminīs 30g season.

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02-07-2013, 02:03 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
I have no idea why leaf fans have any interest in Sutter.

Why give up enough assets to get him, when he would be playing on the 3rd line.

Kadri/Grabo are both better offencive guys.

Sutter would be used as a shutdown guy.

I don't think its worth paying the price to upgrade Sutter to McClement.
we need more solid shutdown guys

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02-07-2013, 02:03 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by psupens View Post
and the Pens have no reason to trade their BEST PROSPECT and a 1st for a player to play with Malkin if he's struggling scoring points as it is.

the Pens and Leafs fans just WILL. NOT. BUDGE. neither side will give in this "debate" so it's pointless to even discuss it until something real happens.
I never said it will take Morrow + 1st. That is way too much. Morrow straight up is what I was talking about, hence Morrow or bust.

Also, if 6 pts in 10 games is struggling to score points, then you need to go check what an average NHL player scores before commenting further.

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02-07-2013, 02:05 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
I never said it will take Morrow + 1st. That is way too much. Morrow straight up is what I was talking about, hence Morrow or bust.

Also, if 6 pts in 10 games is struggling to score points, then you need to go check what an average NHL player scores before commenting further.
Then bust. Morrow hasn't done anything to kill his value, he's in his 1st year in the AHL on a team with a lot of young faces and he's learning right now. Kulemin is at this point, an NHL veteran and so far his resume shows a lot of inconsistency, offensively.

Morrow has more value, as a prospect, at this point in time. So yeah, bust then. Keep Kulemin, not getting Morrow for him straight up. Not unless the Leafs are giving a 2nd or 1st.

And that's 1 goal in 10 games.

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02-07-2013, 02:06 PM
  #706
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Don't see it happening as we'd require a decent over-payment to get let go of Kulemin. He's a lot more important to our team than people would think.

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02-07-2013, 02:06 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
And how many years, at age 33 does Dupuis have left? Do you think because he busts his ass that he would put up these kinds of numbers on the Leafs? I don't think so.

Maybe you Pens fans shouldn't be commenting about 'Kumy' who's nickname is actually "Kulie,' because I don't believe you watch him and know about him either.

There is no way I'd trade a 33 year old for a 26 year old...and I don't think most people would unless that 33 year old was clearly a superstar, which I don't consider Dupuis to be. He's a complimentary forward. Good for him he's putting up decent numbers, and he busts ass...but not a guy I'd give up 'Kumy' for.
Ya, slow your roll playboy. I don't care about trading Dupuis for Kumy because Shero isn't going to trade him. Just get your story straight before making things up. It makes you lose credibility.

As far as what I know about the Leafs, please. I know as much about the Leafs and your farm as any fan on here. My wife is a die hard Leafs fan and I see not only a **** ton of Leafs games, but Marlies games and routinely watch the W and O as well. So I'm well aware of your org from top to bottom.

And yes, I know the dirty little secret that your blueline prospects aren't as strong as some of you are suggesting.

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02-07-2013, 02:13 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
Yeah, if you believe Evgeni Malkin is also worth Mikhail Grabovski.

Dupuis is a glorified penalty killer, who is 33 years old, and got inflated numbers playing with Crosby.

Kulemin is 26 years old and once scored 30 goals, playing on the second line with Grabovski.

Swapping each player means Kulemin is an all-star because he's got world class talent to play with and Dupuis is barely noticeable player on the Leafs.

Dupuis for Kulemin makes absolutely no sense at all for the Leafs.
Pascal Dupuis had 25 goals and 34 assists being used in a slightly more defensive role last season. It was his career high. For all but a half dozen games, the other winger was Steve Sullivan. For 60 games, his center was Jordan Staal.

Are you suggesting that Staal inflated Dupuis' numbers?

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02-07-2013, 02:14 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Ya, slow your roll playboy. I don't care about trading Dupuis for Kumy because Shero isn't going to trade him. Just get your story straight before making things up. It makes you lose credibility.

As far as what I know about the Leafs, please. I know as much about the Leafs and your farm as any fan on here. My wife is a die hard Leafs fan and I see not only a **** ton of Leafs games, but Marlies games and routinely watch the W and O as well. So I'm well aware of your org from top to bottom.

And yes, I know the dirty little secret that your blueline prospects aren't as strong as some of you are suggesting.
My point about Dupuis-- because I raised his name-- is that, in the trade market, other GM's would see Kulemin's value the same as Dupuis, as the third best piece in an offer for high end talent.

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02-07-2013, 02:14 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Ya, slow your roll playboy. I don't care about trading Dupuis for Kumy because Shero isn't going to trade him. Just get your story straight before making things up. It makes you lose credibility.

As far as what I know about the Leafs, please. I know as much about the Leafs and your farm as any fan on here. My wife is a die hard Leafs fan and I see not only a **** ton of Leafs games, but Marlies games and routinely watch the W and O as well. So I'm well aware of your org from top to bottom.

And yes, I know the dirty little secret that your blueline prospects aren't as strong as some of you are suggesting.
The last line in your post tells me you don't watch as much as yoj claim because the blueline prospects are VERY strong

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02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
  #711
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Are you joking? Morrow is not top 3 potential, he's #1 PP QB potential.
Who are you, and why are you being so rational?

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02-07-2013, 02:16 PM
  #712
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Kulemin isn't someone that we want to part with as he fits in with the teams long term goals... last year he had a weak season, but was still an effective player.

Hes a solid two way forward, capable of 20 goals, hard to knock of the puck, deceptively fast, and only 25 (ish).

If I`m Nonis I reply to the pens by asking what they want for Malkin. Its highly unlikely they would move him.. but I`m sure most leafs fans would be open to something revolving around Kessel plus for Malkin. Kessel + Gardiner .. cue laughter from Pens fans.

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02-07-2013, 02:17 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
The last line in your post tells me you don't watch as much as yoj claim because the blueline prospects are VERY strong
why? Because he doesn't consider your D prospects strong based on what he sees? I don't see too many trade ideas involving Toronto's strong cast of D prospects. I see everyone, except Toronto fans wanting Pittsburgh's though.

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02-07-2013, 02:19 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Chandrashekhar Limit View Post
I never said it will take Morrow + 1st. That is way too much. Morrow straight up is what I was talking about, hence Morrow or bust.

Also, if 6 pts in 10 games is struggling to score points, then you need to go check what an average NHL player scores before commenting further.
How many points does Kulemin have on the ice when he wasn't out there with his buddy Malkin?

Here's a hint . . . 9 games, 1 goal, 2 assists, -4, right on a 30 point pace again.

There are two Kulemins. The one who does all the little things but is frustrating when it comes to any offensive production. Then, there's the one who kills it on the ice with Malkin (playing with or against him).

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02-07-2013, 02:20 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by stanleyorbust View Post
Kulemin isn't someone that we want to part with as he fits in with the teams long term goals... last year he had a weak season, but was still an effective player.

Hes a solid two way forward, capable of 20 goals, hard to knock of the puck, deceptively fast, and only 25 (ish).

If I`m Nonis I reply to the pens by asking what they want for Malkin. Its highly unlikely they would move him.. but I`m sure most leafs fans would be open to something revolving around Kessel plus for Malkin. Kessel + Gardiner .. cue laughter from Pens fans.
Not laughing but that's not even close. TBH it's pointless to even float Malkin proposals. The Pens have no interest in trading him and Shero himself has said that his plans involve Malkin spending his entire career with the Pens. The only way Geno gets traded is if he asks to be, and he has no reason to do so.

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02-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Ya, slow your roll playboy. I don't care about trading Dupuis for Kumy because Shero isn't going to trade him. Just get your story straight before making things up. It makes you lose credibility.

As far as what I know about the Leafs, please. I know as much about the Leafs and your farm as any fan on here. My wife is a die hard Leafs fan and I see not only a **** ton of Leafs games, but Marlies games and routinely watch the W and O as well. So I'm well aware of your org from top to bottom.

And yes, I know the dirty little secret that your blueline prospects aren't as strong as some of you are suggesting.
Oh that should go over well.

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02-07-2013, 02:24 PM
  #717
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Originally Posted by Dying Alive View Post
Not laughing but that's not even close. TBH it's pointless to even float Malkin proposals. The Pens have no interest in trading him and Shero himself has said that his plans involve Malkin spending his entire career with the Pens. The only way Geno gets traded is if he asks to be, and he has no reason to do so.
yea.... I would tend to agree with you. Every team in the league would kill for Malkin and any deal would end up being of epic proportions. You`d end up with some dumbass GM giving a Lindros type return for him....

I don`t think the Pens and leafs are good trading partners... other than maybe Toronto dumping some forward depth at the trade deadline lol.

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02-07-2013, 02:26 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
why? Because he doesn't consider your D prospects strong based on what he sees? I don't see too many trade ideas involving Toronto's strong cast of D prospects. I see everyone, except Toronto fans wanting Pittsburgh's though.
yes why is that? because the Leafs are stocking up youth so you won't see Gradiner, Reilley, Percy or Finn moved. The pens are cup contenders MUCH more likely to move youth

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02-07-2013, 02:28 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by LEAFANFORLIFE23 View Post
yes why is that? because the Leafs are stocking up youth so you won't see Gradiner, Reilley, Percy or Finn moved. The pens are cup contenders MUCH more likely to move youth
Well, shouldn't you be able to leverage Kulie and one of those blue chip, can't miss defensive prospects into say Ryan O'Reilly?

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02-07-2013, 02:29 PM
  #720
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Except a cup!! lol sorry man couldnt resist
I was 3 when we last won it .

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02-07-2013, 02:33 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
You want Sutter to be the #1C?

That's not going to help us much.
I believe Sutter would be better suited at this point to be the team's #1C than Bozak is.

With that said it doesn't mean Bozak is worthless, I just think Sutter probably has more offensive upside than Bozak does.

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02-07-2013, 02:33 PM
  #722
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Originally Posted by stanleyorbust View Post
yea.... I would tend to agree with you. Every team in the league would kill for Malkin and any deal would end up being of epic proportions. You`d end up with some dumbass GM giving a Lindros type return for him....

I don`t think the Pens and leafs are good trading partners... other than maybe Toronto dumping some forward depth at the trade deadline lol.
Is "some forward depth" a euphemism for MacArthur? If so, no, thank you.

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02-07-2013, 02:34 PM
  #723
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I was 3 when we last won it .
That makes you more fortunate than most around here, no?

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02-07-2013, 02:35 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by Pierre Gotye View Post
I believe Sutter would be better suited at this point to be the team's #1C than Bozak is.

With that said it doesn't mean Bozak is worthless, I just think Sutter probably has more offensive upside than Bozak does.
Sutter is terribly overrated

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02-07-2013, 02:37 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
My point about Dupuis-- because I raised his name-- is that, in the trade market, other GM's would see Kulemin's value the same as Dupuis, as the third best piece in an offer for high end talent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
How many points does Kulemin have on the ice when he wasn't out there with his buddy Malkin?

Here's a hint . . . 9 games, 1 goal, 2 assists, -4, right on a 30 point pace again.

There are two Kulemins. The one who does all the little things but is frustrating when it comes to any offensive production. Then, there's the one who kills it on the ice with Malkin (playing with or against him).
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Well, shouldn't you be able to leverage Kulie and one of those blue chip, can't miss defensive prospects into say Ryan O'Reilly?
And this all anyone needs to know from you. It's very clear you only watch him play vs the Pens. Not worth anyone's time to try and make a point against a person who is ignorant about the subject being discussed.

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Originally Posted by hero View Post
Are you joking? Morrow is not top 3 potential, he's #1 PP QB potential.
Do you know what top 3 means? Top 3 means #1-#3 D man, so top 3 includes #1. It's not that hard to take a second and understand exactly what's being said. #1 is his absolute best case scenario, just like 30 goals is Kulemin's absolute best scenario. The only difference being Kulemin has actually accomplished that feat.

His defensive game is not even close to suggesting he can be a guy who shuts down the opponents top line consistently at the moment. PPQB is correct, but I would not say he has #1 D potential based on his performance right now.

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