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Pens eyeing Kulemin

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Old
02-08-2013, 07:42 AM
  #826
Phion Keneuf
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Except in Poni's case, he didn't produce anything at all. So, its not an automatic.
Malkin and Kulemin have proven chemistry. They played with each other for 80ish games in the RSL and KHL + they are really good friends

They obviously have chemistry, as shown when they play together in which both players played better overall games, Kulemin was producing really good numbers as well

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02-08-2013, 07:51 AM
  #827
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Even though Kulemin is one of the few Leaf players I actually wold like to keep around, there comes a time when you have to consider what's best for both the team and a player.

With that in mind, I would not be averse to trading Kulemin to Pittsburgh if a reasonably solid return could be acquired.


Last edited by hototogisu: 02-08-2013 at 10:14 AM. Reason: hoping this is what you meant
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02-08-2013, 08:16 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Malkin and Kulemin have proven chemistry. They played with each other for 80ish games in the RSL and KHL + they are really good friends

They obviously have chemistry, as shown when they play together in which both players played better overall games, Kulemin was producing really good numbers as well

As I have stated, chemistry gained in the KHL isn't exactly good ammo to use. It's a different league; the style is different. Good friend? Sure. Crosby's best friend is Colby Armstrong. How did Armstrong do in Pittsburgh when with Crosby?

So, using your philosophy and I have stated this before - Derrick Pouliot and Joe Morrow never should be traded under any circumstance. When paired together for Portland in the WHL, they were studs - put up big numbers which led to wins. So, that chemistry they had in juniors was strong and will ultimately lead them into the NHL Hall-of-Fame based.

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02-08-2013, 08:21 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Except in Poni's case, he didn't produce anything at all. So, its not an automatic.
nothing is automatic. every trade carries risk. if you don't think kulemin will produce why are you so interested in him in the first place?

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02-08-2013, 08:22 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
Pittsburgh fans, you would LOVE Kulemin on your team. He's easily the hardest working player on the Leafs, every damn shift.

He's got a rocket for a shot (believe it or not ), and a very quick release on his snapshot. It's a little inaccurate, though.

He's a 20 goal guy, or so, in my opinion. On Pittsburg he'd likely pot 25-30.

His defensive game is disgustingly good when he's on his game. His boardwork and takeaways are phenomenal.

My favourite Leaf. I forgot how good he was due to his piss-poor season last year (I believe the loss of Korolev had a profound impact on his game last year).

If he's traded, it better be an overpayment. This guy is a winner, and will be a monster in the playoffs IMO. I remember one game against the Jets, big Buff hit him and knocked him down, and a few minutes later Kulemin came out and knocked Buff right on his ass. Guy is ridiculously strong, and ultra-competitive.

I wish the best for him in any case, because he's been great for him. Not a single complaint about him from me.
No.....

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02-08-2013, 08:25 AM
  #831
Saul Goodman
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kulemin plays against the opposing teams top line every night. if you aren't prepared to offer the leafs an upgrade in that department then they have no reason to trade him.

next year at the trade deadline might be a different story, but until then, dream on.

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02-08-2013, 08:26 AM
  #832
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nothing is automatic. every trade carries risk. if you don't think kulemin will produce why are you so interested in him in the first place?
Bottom line, people are blowing this KHL chemistry and good friends out of the water.

He plays a solid two way game ... that is why I'm interested in him coming to Pittsburgh. I don't think he is a 30 goal scorer at all. If he came, potted 20 and played a solid two-way game and used the body, that is what I would expect. His game fits Pittsburgh more than any other slug mentioned on this board. Not calling him a slug, I'm calling the rest of them such.

That said, I'm hoping Shero doesn't overpay for him. No need to. There is one other guy I would be interested in Shero making a call to without breaking the bank. I call Calgary.

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02-08-2013, 08:28 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
As I have stated, chemistry gained in the KHL isn't exactly good ammo to use. It's a different league; the style is different. Good friend? Sure. Crosby's best friend is Colby Armstrong. How did Armstrong do in Pittsburgh when with Crosby?

So, using your philosophy and I have stated this before - Derrick Pouliot and Joe Morrow never should be traded under any circumstance. When paired together for Portland in the WHL, they were studs - put up big numbers which led to wins. So, that chemistry they had in juniors was strong and will ultimately lead them into the NHL Hall-of-Fame based.
Comparing the WHL to the KHL?
The KHL is the closest thing to the NHL as possible.

I'm not sure why you are trying to discredit Malkin and Kulemins chemistry? Trying to prove something? Both of them have stated that they enjoy playing with each other and are good friends off the ice.
There is nothing to prove that Kulemin/Malkin will not work in the NHL, as it has worked in EVERY other league. You don't instantly lose chemistry when playing the SAME sport in a different league.

And that example is just ignorant, comparing 2 18 year olds, who have no choice but to play together to 2 experienced NHLers who chose to play with each other during the lockout. Morrow and Pouliot half of fame? What are you babbling on about buddy?

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02-08-2013, 08:29 AM
  #834
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No.....
No what? Everything he has said is true.

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02-08-2013, 08:33 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Bottom line, people are blowing this KHL chemistry and good friends out of the water.

He plays a solid two way game ... that is why I'm interested in him coming to Pittsburgh. I don't think he is a 30 goal scorer at all. If he came, potted 20 and played a solid two-way game and used the body, that is what I would expect. His game fits Pittsburgh more than any other slug mentioned on this board. Not calling him a slug, I'm calling the rest of them such.

That said, I'm hoping Shero doesn't overpay for him. No need to. There is one other guy I would be interested in Shero making a call to without breaking the bank. I call Calgary.
that's a fair assessment of his game. it doesn't quite line up with the trade offers in here, but i digress. i'm glad you've come to the conclusion kulemin isn't going anywhere unless it's for an overpayment or upgrade to the NHL roster.

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02-08-2013, 08:36 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Comparing the WHL to the KHL?
The KHL is the closest thing to the NHL as possible.

I'm not sure why you are trying to discredit Malkin and Kulemins chemistry? Trying to prove something? Both of them have stated that they enjoy playing with each other and are good friends off the ice.
There is nothing to prove that Kulemin/Malkin will not work in the NHL, as it has worked in EVERY other league. You don't instantly lose chemistry when playing the SAME sport in a different league.

And that example is just ignorant, comparing 2 18 year olds, who have no choice but to play together to 2 experienced NHLers who chose to play with each other during the lockout. Morrow and Pouliot half of fame? What are you babbling on about buddy?
No, its not ignorant. You are trying to make chemistry in a totally different league something. If these two played together before in the NHL and had success, that is one thing. The KHL is a totally different league with a different style of play.

I'm proving a point with the WHL comment. To me, that holds the same amount of water as your KHL thing. The WHL isn't the NHL, not close. The KHL isn't the NHL - its closer, but not close. The KHL has some talented guys in that league, but have many that wouldn't sniff a contract in this league. Might be the closest, but I think it has a ways to go to catch up.

Stop the madness in this chemistry BS. It's overrated in this instance. If we were talking about a deal between Dynamo Riga and Dynamo Minsk, it would hold water.

You guys are trying everything to make this fit between Pittsburgh and Toronto more and more and build even more value for Kulemin in return with this stuff. It doesn't fly with me. He is a solid two way player that uses the body and can score 20 with Pittsburgh. There is a fit and there is a price I give for that, based on what he is in the NHL - not what he was in the KHL with Malkin.

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02-08-2013, 08:39 AM
  #837
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that's where you're wrong about this whole chemistry thing.

if nonis feels their KHL chemistry should hold weight in trade talks with the pens, well that's all that really matters. so realistically, you're in no position to say wether it matters or not because you have abosolutely no idea what's going on in someone else's head.

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02-08-2013, 08:41 AM
  #838
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that's where you're wrong about this whole chemistry thing.

if nonis feels their KHL chemistry should hold weight in trade talks with the pens, well that's all that really matters. so realistically, you're in no position to say wether it matters or not because you have abosolutely no idea what's going on in someone else's head.
I pay a price for a certain player based on his success in the NHL. Not, what he is/was in the KHL with Malkin. Two totally different leagues; two totally different styles of play; two totally different leagues relative to talent. Agree to disagree.

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02-08-2013, 08:45 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
I pay a price for a certain player based on his success in the NHL. Not, what he is/was in the KHL with Malkin. Two totally different leagues; two totally different styles of play; two totally different leagues relative to talent. Agree to disagree.
you're missing the point. when you call another team asking for a player, you don't get to decide on what metrics said team's GM uses to value their players. doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

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02-08-2013, 08:57 AM
  #840
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Well, shouldn't you be able to leverage Kulie and one of those blue chip, can't miss defensive prospects into say Ryan O'Reilly?
While I am well aware you are mocking me I will say IF the avs evever become open to moving him I believe the basis of a deal is there not the full trade but the framework for sure.

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02-08-2013, 09:04 AM
  #841
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Leafs have a lot of depth, not much quality.

Potential 1st Pair - Rielly...
Potential 2nd Pair - Gardiner, Finn, Percy (all of them are big question marks)
Potential 3rd Pair - Holzer, Blacker (Holzer looks good to go, Blacker still not sure what we have in him)

Leafs don't have too many d-specs at all.
really? Gradiner not 1st pair? watching him play last year I strongly disagree

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02-08-2013, 09:08 AM
  #842
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No, its not ignorant. You are trying to make chemistry in a totally different league something. If these two played together before in the NHL and had success, that is one thing. The KHL is a totally different league with a different style of play.

I'm proving a point with the WHL comment. To me, that holds the same amount of water as your KHL thing. The WHL isn't the NHL, not close. The KHL isn't the NHL - its closer, but not close. The KHL has some talented guys in that league, but have many that wouldn't sniff a contract in this league. Might be the closest, but I think it has a ways to go to catch up.

Stop the madness in this chemistry BS. It's overrated in this instance. If we were talking about a deal between Dynamo Riga and Dynamo Minsk, it would hold water.

You guys are trying everything to make this fit between Pittsburgh and Toronto more and more and build even more value for Kulemin in return with this stuff. It doesn't fly with me. He is a solid two way player that uses the body and can score 20 with Pittsburgh. There is a fit and there is a price I give for that, based on what he is in the NHL - not what he was in the KHL with Malkin.
Verbal diarrhea guy.

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02-08-2013, 10:00 AM
  #843
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Verbal diarrhea guy.
That is what I think of Leaf fans who says I won't trade him for anything less than Sutter coming back.

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02-08-2013, 10:02 AM
  #844
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
That is what I think of Leaf fans who says I won't trade him for anything less than Sutter coming back.
Regardless of what some here percieve the value of Kulemin is in a trade to the Pens, Kulemin is a very good hockey player, one of the best on the leafs, and would no doubt help the Pens in a big way. I encourage anyone who is interested in Kulemin, to take the time and watch a few games, to see what he brings to the table night in and night out.

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02-08-2013, 10:03 AM
  #845
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Except in Poni's case, he didn't produce anything at all. So, its not an automatic.
Well Caputi was supposed to be a sure thing -- look what he turned out to be. And Tangradi was absolutely untouchable -- he doesn't look like he'll amount to anything special. There's a risk on both sides in most NHL deals. Except on HF where posters offer garbage for hope.

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02-08-2013, 10:04 AM
  #846
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That is what I think of Leaf fans who says I won't trade him for anything less than Sutter coming back.
Must be snow day for the kids in Pitt

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02-08-2013, 10:05 AM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Malkin and Kulemin have proven chemistry. They played with each other for 80ish games in the RSL and KHL + they are really good friends

They obviously have chemistry, as shown when they play together in which both players played better overall games, Kulemin was producing really good numbers as well
And, once again, anyone who wonders what type of NHL chemistry they have, he only needs to go rewatch the game tape of Kulimen defending Malkin. He knew what Malkin was doing and was going to do with and without the puck pretty much the whole game.

That said, I've got an honest question for you (from a Pens fan): WTF is going on with Kulie? One game against the Pens, 0g, 3a, +3 and arguably the best player out there for either team. Ten other games, 1g, 2a, -5. Whether he's playing with or against Malkin, it's pretty hard to ignore that he's a different player when Malkin isn't nearby.

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02-08-2013, 10:12 AM
  #848
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Regardless of what some here percieve the value of Kulemin is in a trade to the Pens, Kulemin is a very good hockey player, one of the best on the leafs, and would no doubt help the Pens in a big way. I encourage anyone who is interested in Kulemin, to take the time and watch a few games, to see what he brings to the table night in and night out.
UMMMM ... we know what he brings to the table. We have watched him play the last three years ... he has been a primary target of Pittsburgh's for the last two. He is a solid two-way player - we know that. This is why there have been 15 threads like this ... Kulemin's value to Pittsburgh. Alot of Pens fans acknowledge what he brings.

Where we don't agree is on price. Asking for a third line center, that plays defense like Kulemin; has an edge like Kulemin; wins face offs unlike Kulemin and scored more goals than Kulemin when centering a line of non talented players - probably the least exciting third line in the NHL last year ... it could be easily argued Sutter has more value than Kulemin. He is way more valuable to Pittsburgh than Kulemin would ever dream to be. Pittsburgh is adamant about having three very good centers. If it wasn't, Staal would be a Ranger now. Sutter, to me, is the closest thing to Jordan Staal out there. I wouldn't trade a kid a half step down from Staal for Kulemin. No.

On the flip side, Toronto fan is adamant that they don't need any of Pittsburgh's D prospects because they are so loaded in this area its not funny. There is no point continuing this discussion. But, I'm sure once this thread goes off the first page, if it ever does, it will be restarted again by a Toronto fan again before the trade deadline.

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02-08-2013, 10:15 AM
  #849
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
No, its not ignorant. You are trying to make chemistry in a totally different league something. If these two played together before in the NHL and had success, that is one thing. The KHL is a totally different league with a different style of play.

I'm proving a point with the WHL comment. To me, that holds the same amount of water as your KHL thing. The WHL isn't the NHL, not close. The KHL isn't the NHL - its closer, but not close. The KHL has some talented guys in that league, but have many that wouldn't sniff a contract in this league. Might be the closest, but I think it has a ways to go to catch up.

Stop the madness in this chemistry BS. It's overrated in this instance. If we were talking about a deal between Dynamo Riga and Dynamo Minsk, it would hold water.

You guys are trying everything to make this fit between Pittsburgh and Toronto more and more and build even more value for Kulemin in return with this stuff. It doesn't fly with me. He is a solid two way player that uses the body and can score 20 with Pittsburgh. There is a fit and there is a price I give for that, based on what he is in the NHL - not what he was in the KHL with Malkin.
Ever watch Kulemin defend Malkin?

What's the reason, in your expert opinion, for the fact that Toronto always tries to get Kulemin out there against Malkin and Kulemin just seems to know what Malkin is or is about to do with or without the puck?

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02-08-2013, 10:23 AM
  #850
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UMMMM ... we know what he brings to the table. We have watched him play the last three years ... he has been a primary target of Pittsburgh's for the last two. He is a solid two-way player - we know that. This is why there have been 15 threads like this ... Kulemin's value to Pittsburgh. Alot of Pens fans acknowledge what he brings.

Where we don't agree is on price. Asking for a third line center, that plays defense like Kulemin; has an edge like Kulemin; wins face offs unlike Kulemin and scored more goals than Kulemin when centering a line of non talented players - probably the least exciting third line in the NHL last year ... it could be easily argued Sutter has more value than Kulemin. He is way more valuable to Pittsburgh than Kulemin would ever dream to be. Pittsburgh is adamant about having three very good centers. If it wasn't, Staal would be a Ranger now. Sutter, to me, is the closest thing to Jordan Staal out there. I wouldn't trade a kid a half step down from Staal for Kulemin. No.

On the flip side, Toronto fan is adamant that they don't need any of Pittsburgh's D prospects because they are so loaded in this area its not funny. There is no point continuing this discussion. But, I'm sure once this thread goes off the first page, if it ever does, it will be restarted again by a Toronto fan again before the trade deadline.
To be fair, i'm sure there have been some Pens fans that are guilty of starting Kulemin threads as well. The leafs do have decent depth on D, but to suggest they dont need any more quality D prospects, is ridiculous. Kulemin is my favourite player, and would hate to see him go. I do think he may end up leaving to Pitt durring UFA, and personally, Matta plus a first, or Morrow IMHO is fair value. Morrow, Matta and the first are all not guarantee's that they will be NHLers. let alone good ones. Kulemin is the sure thing here, and is very much valued by the Leafs.

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