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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part IV)

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Old
02-18-2013, 04:42 PM
  #701
JackSlater
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Originally Posted by DJWils08 View Post
Too many people thinking "All-Star Team" when you need to be thinking more of a team with a "Top 6" and a "bottom 6". Now of course our bottom 6 is still going to be unreal but thats what wins championships
I disagree. Teams often go with a bottom 6 because they don't have the talent available to do something else. Canada in 2010 didn't do that, and if you look at the European rosters you won't see them doing it either. You need to have defensively capable forwards, but you don't need traditional bottom 6 lines.

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02-18-2013, 07:04 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by JackSlater View Post
I disagree. Teams often go with a bottom 6 because they don't have the talent available to do something else. Canada in 2010 didn't do that, and if you look at the European rosters you won't see them doing it either. You need to have defensively capable forwards, but you don't need traditional bottom 6 lines.
I agree and that line of thinking irritates the crap outta' me: "Let's put Shayne friggin Corson on the team instead of Steve Yzerman!"

Yeah, that's how you win tournaments.

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02-18-2013, 11:56 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by zeropotentate View Post
Canada will find a way to lose to Switzerland and flop in the medal rounds.
flop in the medal round???

Canada has won 2 out of the 4 best on best olympic medals.

Out of the other 2, Canada never won, 1 was a shootout loss in the semi finals to the best goalie of this generation, who was playing at his and this generations absolute best, and even then, linden hit the post during the game, and lindros a post during the shootout.
In torino, they lost in the qf to a russian team, basically 1-0, with the russian scoring the 2-0 goal with less then a minute to go.

Where have they flopped in the medal round????

Sweden losing to the belarusians in the qf is flopping. Canada losing to the russians or in a shoot out isn't flopping.

Without a doubt Canada will be the favourite going in to Sochi in my opinion, and based on all the odds set in the market by bookmakers, but no way are they guaranteed to win even a medal with the way the tournament is set up.

If one had the option of taking Canada to win the gold, or the field, the field would get 95% of the votes if your money was on the line opposed to your heart


Last edited by hitmen19: 02-19-2013 at 12:12 AM.
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02-19-2013, 12:17 AM
  #704
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
I agree and that line of thinking irritates the crap outta' me: "Let's put Shayne friggin Corson on the team instead of Steve Yzerman!"

Yeah, that's how you win tournaments.
nothing will ever beat Zamuner being on the 98 team. I still don't know who the fck he is

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02-19-2013, 02:51 AM
  #705
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Stamkos Crosby Tavares
Nash Toews Perry
E. Staal J. Staal Couture
Hall Giroux Eberle
Benn M. Richards

Keith Weber
M. Staal Doughty
Letang Pietrangelo
Subban Girardi

Price
Ward
Luongo

Looks like a guaranteed gold to me. What do you guys think? Who did I miss?


Last edited by crack2464: 02-19-2013 at 03:11 AM. Reason: easier to read
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02-19-2013, 03:33 AM
  #706
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Looks like a guaranteed gold to me.


yep. just like in 2006, 1998, 1994, 1992 etc. and wjc last 4 years or world championship last 4 years.

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02-19-2013, 04:25 AM
  #707
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nothing will ever beat Zamuner being on the 98 team. I still don't know who the fck he is
I'm with you on that one... The problem with Hockey Canada and those they employ is that they tend to over-think it too much. The Top 6 Bottom 6 NHL mentality extended to the National Team.
Just take the best 23-25 players available, and included in those 23 are a few players who are versatile and able to adapt to different roles and just let them fly... if they win they win....but lets not lose with Gretzky sitting on the bench because the coach thinks he's going to out-think everybody else. Having said that, Gretzky was never the greatest on penalty shots, but I'd rather go down with Gretzky taking the shot than....than whatever Crawford's selection was...can't remember. I had just moved to Montreal in 98 and was in an empty house in Laval listening to it all on radio.

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02-19-2013, 09:12 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Mr Writer View Post
I'm with you on that one... The problem with Hockey Canada and those they employ is that they tend to over-think it too much. The Top 6 Bottom 6 NHL mentality extended to the National Team.
Just take the best 23-25 players available, and included in those 23 are a few players who are versatile and able to adapt to different roles and just let them fly... if they win they win....but lets not lose with Gretzky sitting on the bench because the coach thinks he's going to out-think everybody else. Having said that, Gretzky was never the greatest on penalty shots, but I'd rather go down with Gretzky taking the shot than....than whatever Crawford's selection was...can't remember. I had just moved to Montreal in 98 and was in an empty house in Laval listening to it all on radio.
While I certainly agree that Zamuner was a huge reach by Hockey Canada and a case of the management group over-thinking the roster and fitting pieces into a "phantom" roster, take a look at our depth in 1998. Which Canadian players were sitting at home in February 1998? Messier? Francis? Kariya was hurt, so that didn't help, but its not like there were many viable alternatives anyway. A large part of that was probably due to the fact that the 1991-1995 drafts didn't really pan out for us in terms of quality forwards (I'm thinking of Falloon, Daigle, Scissons, Rob Niedermayer, Gratton, Arnott, Allison; Smyth wasn't ready by 1998, etc.), and if you look at the 2010 team a large chunk of our forwards were drafted in 2003-2005.

Combine the lack of quality depth with a headstrong, a stubborn GM (Clarke), the mentality that size, defense, and physicality win international hockey tournaments, and poor coaching (Crawford), and you see the result. On a positive note, it resulted in Hockey Canada re-thinking its approach in time for the 2002 OGs.

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02-19-2013, 11:02 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
While I certainly agree that Zamuner was a huge reach by Hockey Canada and a case of the management group over-thinking the roster and fitting pieces into a "phantom" roster, take a look at our depth in 1998. Which Canadian players were sitting at home in February 1998? Messier? Francis? Kariya was hurt, so that didn't help, but its not like there were many viable alternatives anyway. A large part of that was probably due to the fact that the 1991-1995 drafts didn't really pan out for us in terms of quality forwards (I'm thinking of Falloon, Daigle, Scissons, Rob Niedermayer, Gratton, Arnott, Allison; Smyth wasn't ready by 1998, etc.), and if you look at the 2010 team a large chunk of our forwards were drafted in 2003-2005.

Combine the lack of quality depth with a headstrong, a stubborn GM (Clarke), the mentality that size, defense, and physicality win international hockey tournaments, and poor coaching (Crawford), and you see the result. On a positive note, it resulted in Hockey Canada re-thinking its approach in time for the 2002 OGs.



Lesson learned for 2002 and forgotten again in 2006 with the friends of Gretzky Torino Goodwill Tour. And it seems a lot of Canadians forget it from time to time. I don't remember thinking about the 1998 Olympics too much at the time as I was just returning from overseas, just started grad school and in an empty rented house in Laval, not much time to think about the Nagano Olympics...and all you say is true, there were some real draft busts from 91-95. But Lindros should have won that tournament all by himself...and Turgeon should have been there along with Mess.... but generally the hockey establishment tends to over-think these rosters way too much, most Federations do. Hockey Canada is still guilty of it, but I think Stevie Y will make the right decisions.


Last edited by Mr Writer: 02-19-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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Old
02-19-2013, 11:40 AM
  #710
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Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
While I certainly agree that Zamuner was a huge reach by Hockey Canada and a case of the management group over-thinking the roster and fitting pieces into a "phantom" roster, take a look at our depth in 1998. Which Canadian players were sitting at home in February 1998? Messier? Francis? Kariya was hurt, so that didn't help, but its not like there were many viable alternatives anyway. A large part of that was probably due to the fact that the 1991-1995 drafts didn't really pan out for us in terms of quality forwards (I'm thinking of Falloon, Daigle, Scissons, Rob Niedermayer, Gratton, Arnott, Allison; Smyth wasn't ready by 1998, etc.), and if you look at the 2010 team a large chunk of our forwards were drafted in 2003-2005.

Combine the lack of quality depth with a headstrong, a stubborn GM (Clarke), the mentality that size, defense, and physicality win international hockey tournaments, and poor coaching (Crawford), and you see the result. On a positive note, it resulted in Hockey Canada re-thinking its approach in time for the 2002 OGs.
In 1998 Recchi only made the team due to Kariya's injury, so Zamuner was ahead of him on the original roster. Francis was pretty inexcusable, as he could have played some wing and was more than competent defensively. Oates should have probably made it over Linden, but I guess Linden was easier to convert to wing. Mainly Canada had too many centres and not enough wingers, which lead to some strange selections.

The 1998 roster isn't as poor as most people think, with all of the key players selected and a few grinders thrown in. The biggest issue was missing Kariya, by far Canada's best winger, for the whole tournament and also missing Sakic for the semi-finals. Healthy, un-retired Mario Lemieux would have been nice as well.

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02-19-2013, 11:46 AM
  #711
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Goalies for team Canada 2014?

Been thinking about this lately and i feel like its a pretty big issue for them. I have no idea who theyre gonna pick, to me theres no clear choice and I know Marty wants to go but i know you guys dont want him haha, so who do you guys think itll be? Id go with Ward, Price and Dubnyk

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02-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #712
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No Luongo? He won gold for them in 2010 and is still a top goaltender. He certainly makes it over Dubnyk

It should be

Price
Luongo
x

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02-19-2013, 11:49 AM
  #713
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Dubnyk???

Rather have the old Brodeur thank you.

Price
Luongo
Ward

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02-19-2013, 11:50 AM
  #714
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Dubnyk? Not even close.

It'll be some variation of Luongo, Price, Ward, and Fleury. I think Luongo is guaranteed as a guy who a) has a gold medal and b) has had continued success. I think Price is too.

Broduer just isn't good enough anymore.

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02-19-2013, 11:51 AM
  #715
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Luongo
Price
Ward

If one of them is injured throw Smith in there, I don't want Fleury anywhere near the Canadian Olympic team.

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02-19-2013, 11:53 AM
  #716
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I'd take Dubnyk over Ward and fleury right now. That being said I'd go with Price and Luongo as my undisputed 1-2 punch.

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02-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #717
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I don't see how anyone but Price should be considered for the starting position. Luongo and Ward would be serviceable backups.

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02-19-2013, 11:54 AM
  #718
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Price/Luongo
&
3rd string that's playing well at the time.

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02-19-2013, 11:56 AM
  #719
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Price/Luongo
&
3rd string that's playing well at the time.
agreed!

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02-19-2013, 11:58 AM
  #720
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My bet is :

Price
Luongo
Brodeur

If Brodeur retires then Ward/Fleury

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02-19-2013, 11:58 AM
  #721
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The key with either Brodeur or Luongo is having a goalie with plenty of experince internationally........there is alot more pressure on Can goalies...so an exp goalie is key even as the third goalie.

Price,Luongo and ..............Ward?.............Brodeur/fleury???

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02-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #722
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Barring a major collapse in play between now and then:

1a) (starter on a short leash) - Luongo
1b) Price
3) - Brodeur

The other guys do not deserve to be on an olympic team. (Ward, MAF, etc.)

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02-19-2013, 12:02 PM
  #723
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Dubnyk is better than Fleury or Ward right now. Cup runs with supremely talented teams shouldn't guarantee you Olympic roster spots for life

The Oilers defense is terrible.


Last edited by 5RingsAndABeer: 02-19-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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02-19-2013, 12:03 PM
  #724
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1. Price
2. Luongo
3. Ward

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02-19-2013, 12:09 PM
  #725
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1. Price
2. Luongo
3. Ward/Brodeur

I think Price gets the nod as the starter. Luongo is still am elite goaltender and won Gold last time around. As long as Brodeur doesn't regress before then, I think he should be the #3 for his leadership and experience. If he slips a bit, a slightly younger goalie can take his place. Ward is my top choice if Brodeur isn't up to par, but Schneider, Smith, etc. all should have a shot as well.

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