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Leafs listening on Kessel?

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Old
02-07-2013, 01:04 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
Kessel is not worth those types of assets! You would seriously give up a franchise goalie and a uniquely talented power forward for Kessel?
Again Kessel is a proven talent an elite sniper with consistent 30+ goals for the four seasons, he's coming off career high 37 goals and 82 points playing with a college centreman in Bozak. Schnieder is not a franchise goalie yet, At this point Kessel is a far proven roster player. Leafs already have a prospect similar to Kassian in Biggs. It is a reasonable offer but by no means it's an over payment by the Canucks.

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02-07-2013, 01:09 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by nogger View Post
Blake Comeau and a 3rd for Kessel

Fairly close value wise, especially this year IMO
Cute.

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02-07-2013, 01:10 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by nogger View Post
Blake Comeau and a 3rd for Kessel

Fairly close value wise, especially this year IMO
Your about 1/3 of the way there.

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02-07-2013, 01:12 PM
  #429
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I think Nucks fan/general public are right here over the general leaf fan base.

Schneider + Kassian + 2nd >> Kessel

It's a young above average starting goalie in his prime, potential power forward who is making progress, and a late 2nd in a deep draft.

Kessel is great and all, but it's hard to win games when you have a 30 goal scorer who can't play a strong two-way game on for 20 mins a night.

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02-07-2013, 01:16 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
Again Kessel is a proven talent an elite sniper with consistent 30+ goals for the four seasons, he's coming off career high 37 goals and 82 points playing with a college centreman in Bozak. Schnieder is not a franchise goalie yet, At this point Kessel is a far proven roster player. Leafs already have a prospect similar to Kassian in Biggs. It is a reasonable offer but by no means it's an over payment by the Canucks.
As I have pointed out before, I like Kessel as a player. I don't like that his cost to production ratio is dropping, and quickly, as he approaches UFA status. His current value will not return an established NHL star, or a unique young player (like Kassian) that has emerged, and is on his ELC. Kessel will most likely be traded for future assets: Picks and (or) young players who have yet to prove themselves. When he was traded to Toronto from Boston Kessel's return only showed its true value as future assets. It will be the same this time, or he stays in TO until next summer, when he signs elsewhere as a UFA

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02-07-2013, 01:18 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
I think Nucks fan/general public are right here over the general leaf fan base.

Schneider + Kassian + 2nd >> Kessel

It's a young above average starting goalie in his prime, potential power forward who is making progress, and a late 2nd in a deep draft.

Kessel is great and all, but it's hard to win games when you have a 30 goal scorer who can't play a strong two-way game on for 20 mins a night.
I don't disagree with this. Would Leaf fans want to give up ~Gardiner+Kadri+2nd for Heatley? Because that's probably a pretty similar trade from the other perspective (ignoring team needs, just looking at value of young pieces versus one-dimensional sniper).

Most Leaf fans would say no. The reason being that Heatley isn't a legitimate piece to build around. due to the holes in his game. Well, the same can be applied to Kessel.

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02-07-2013, 01:22 PM
  #432
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I don't disagree with this. Would Leaf fans want to give up ~Gardiner+Kadri+2nd for Heatley? Because that's probably a pretty similar trade from the other perspective (ignoring team needs, just looking at value of young pieces versus one-dimensional sniper).
Exactly.

I honestly question how much of an "asset" kessel really is.

How can Kessel some how put up 82 points in 82 games, and still be a -10, when he almost NEVER get's defensive zone starts.

Kessel is incredibly sheltered, and still somehow is a minus player.

Year before, he puts up 64 points, and manages a -20. I don't even understand how you can be on for goals against that consistently.

The best comparable to Kessel, right now, is probably Semin. He's not as valuable as leaf fans make him out to be.

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02-07-2013, 01:23 PM
  #433
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I think that a blockbuster trade between the Leafs and the Oilers in inevitable. Oilers need young veteran presence and defense. Leafs need youth and #1Cs.

To EDM
Kessel
Phaneuf


To TOR
Nugent-Hopkins

I can see this as the start of a deal. I think Edmonton is the best trading partner as both sides have something that the other is lacking in. Both sides probably have to add something to make this deal more interesting, like Toronto may want to add defensemen for Edmonton's first round pick.

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02-07-2013, 01:23 PM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafShark View Post
I think that a blockbuster trade between the Leafs and the Oilers in inevitable. Oilers need young veteran presence and defense. Leafs need youth and #1Cs.

To EDM
Kessel
Phaneuf


To TOR
Nugent-Hopkins

I can see this as the start of a deal. I think Edmonton is the best trading partner as both sides have something that the other is lacking in. Both sides probably have to add something to make this deal more interesting, like Toronto may want to add defensemen for Edmonton's first round pick.
Have you seen Edmonton's center depth??

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02-07-2013, 01:26 PM
  #435
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Would Winnipeg be willing to take a gamble?

Kessel for:

Scheifele/Trouba
1st

Prob not but worth a try.

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02-07-2013, 01:29 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I don't disagree with this. Would Leaf fans want to give up ~Gardiner+Kadri+2nd for Heatley? Because that's probably a pretty similar trade from the other perspective (ignoring team needs, just looking at value of young pieces versus one-dimensional sniper).

Most Leaf fans would say no. The reason being that Heatley isn't a legitimate piece to build around. due to the holes in his game. Well, the same can be applied to Kessel.
I agree with your concept, providing we accept that Kessel is a far better player than Heatley.

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02-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafShark View Post
I think that a blockbuster trade between the Leafs and the Oilers in inevitable. Oilers need young veteran presence and defense. Leafs need youth and #1Cs.

To EDM
Kessel
Phaneuf


To TOR
Nugent-Hopkins

I can see this as the start of a deal. I think Edmonton is the best trading partner as both sides have something that the other is lacking in. Both sides probably have to add something to make this deal more interesting, like Toronto may want to add defensemen for Edmonton's first round pick.
Not a chance

1. Edmonton has 3 very good wingers and RNH is our only great center. gagner is not a #1
2.Phanuefs contract is brutal, do not want.
3.Kessel is an FA next year, no guartnee he stays

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02-07-2013, 01:33 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
As I have pointed out before, I like Kessel as a player. I don't like that his cost to production ratio is dropping, and quickly, as he approaches UFA status. His current value will not return an established NHL star, or a unique young player (like Kassian) that has emerged, and is on his ELC. Kessel will most likely be traded for future assets: Picks and (or) young players who have yet to prove themselves. When he was traded to Toronto from Boston Kessel's return only showed its true value as future assets. It will be the same this time, or he stays in TO until next summer, when he signs elsewhere as a UFA
How are you so sure he'll sign elsewhere? In fact I think he'll most likely resign in Toronto in the summer, he loves the city and playing here. Phil costed two first round picks and a second, two of which turned out to be top 10 picks Seugin and Hamilton, so I doubt Leafs let Kessel walk. Lupul also just signed a 5 year deal with whom Kessel had great chemistry. One could say Nonis would have had talk with both Phil and Lupul before handing him a new contract.

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02-07-2013, 01:34 PM
  #439
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
Not a chance

1. Edmonton has 3 very good wingers and RNH is our only great center. gagner is not a #1
2.Phanuefs contract is brutal, do not want.
3.Kessel is an FA next year, no guartnee he stays
Ignore that offer, it's terrible.

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02-07-2013, 01:35 PM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
I mean we'd take a flyer on him no doubt, but he doesn't have much value to us. Mitchell and Sgarbossa look like they could play the 3C role for us.

The key for us is if we add to ROR for Kessel, the following pieces are not the +:

First round picks
Duchene, Stastny, Sgarbossa, Mitchell
Landeskog, PAP
Erik Johnson
Varlamov
What about Joe Sakic memorabilia, would you be willing to throw that into the deal too, or is that off limits too?

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02-07-2013, 01:36 PM
  #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafShark View Post
I think that a blockbuster trade between the Leafs and the Oilers in inevitable. Oilers need young veteran presence and defense. Leafs need youth and #1Cs.

To EDM
Kessel
Phaneuf


To TOR
Nugent-Hopkins

I can see this as the start of a deal. I think Edmonton is the best trading partner as both sides have something that the other is lacking in. Both sides probably have to add something to make this deal more interesting, like Toronto may want to add defensemen for Edmonton's first round pick.
Phaneuf and Kessel don't carry that value. They are worth potential future assets like draft picks and young unproven players. If Kessel was more than one dimensional, then yes, he's worth more. But he is a minus player, who is a huge liability if he's not scoring. And he's a coming UFA
Phaneuf is a good player, but is overpaid for what he offers. Of the two, he does have more value than Kessel in trade.

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02-07-2013, 01:36 PM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
Again Kessel is a proven talent an elite sniper with consistent 30+ goals for the four seasons, he's coming off career high 37 goals and 82 points playing with a college centreman in Bozak. Schnieder is not a franchise goalie yet, At this point Kessel is a far proven roster player. Leafs already have a prospect similar to Kassian in Biggs. It is a reasonable offer but by no means it's an over payment by the Canucks.
Kessel is a college winger.

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02-07-2013, 01:38 PM
  #443
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What about Joe Sakic memorabilia, would you be willing to throw that into the deal too, or is that off limits too?
That's really funny. That leaves plenty of assets that when combined with ROR are more than enough value for Phil the Thrill.

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02-07-2013, 01:41 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by hero View Post

The best comparable to Kessel, right now, is probably Semin. He's not as valuable as leaf fans make him out to be.
I pointed that out a few times last summer. Because I found it absolutely hilarious (or sad...) that many of the same people that vehemently defended the Kessel trade also wouldn't want Semin for free (minus cap space) as a free agent...

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02-07-2013, 01:42 PM
  #445
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i also dont understand the need to trade Kessel, a 30 g scorer. If you do trade him for a center, in 2 months people will say "we need a elite winger now"

Cant Grabovski play center wil him, hed make up for any of Kessel defensive shortcomings. Even Weise could do good as Kessels center

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02-07-2013, 01:45 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
i also dont understand the need to trade Kessel, a 30 g scorer. If you do trade him for a center, in 2 months people will say "we need a elite winger now"

Cant Grabovski play center wil him, hed make up for any of Kessel defensive shortcomings. Even Weise could do good as Kessels center
This. He's the only the star player on the Leafs and with the price they paid to get him, it would be sheer stupidity of Nonis to trade him for anything of lesser value.

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02-07-2013, 01:47 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by H0MER View Post
How are you so sure he'll sign elsewhere? In fact I think he'll most likely resign in Toronto in the summer, he loves the city and playing here. Phil costed two first round picks and a second, two of which turned out to be top 10 picks Seugin and Hamilton, so I doubt Leafs let Kessel walk. Lupul also just signed a 5 year deal with whom Kessel had great chemistry. One could say Nonis would have had talk with both Phil and Lupul before handing him a new contract.
So the Leafs will sign Kessel to prove a point, at all costs? Let him go. He's not worth the contract cap hit he makes, or will want in the future. That money could be used elsewhere, for better value.

Would you trade Kessel for Cory Perry? Certainly! That can be accomplished by signing Perry as a UFA, then trading Kessel to some other team for picks, simply to create the cap space for Perry. Hence it can be rationalized as Kessel for Perry, and what ever picks Kessel returns.

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02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #448
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it's so funny the difference between nonis and burke

with burke, the media speculated issues everyone already knew

with nonis, the media has no idea what he's thinking so they generate topics to speculate on

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02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
That's really funny. That leaves plenty of assets that when combined with ROR are more than enough value for Phil the Thrill.
I'd like to see you name these assets.

I always enjoy the haughty attitude that all 29 NHL fans assume whenever even when they're the ones that want something from the Leafs. If Ryan O'Reilly was such a fantastic piece to the puzzle, he wouldn't be a hold out and you wouldn't want to move him.

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02-07-2013, 01:52 PM
  #450
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I'd like to see you name these assets.

I always enjoy the haughty attitude that all 29 NHL fans assume whenever even when they're the ones that want something from the Leafs.
Had you taken the time to read the thread (last 2 pages) you would have already seen that post. Carry on with your woe is me shtick. It's really becoming.

And don't even get me started on the irony of your post. How did you acquire Kessel, again? How soon you forget.

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