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Leafs listening on Kessel?

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02-08-2013, 05:44 PM
  #801
LickTheEnvelope
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
I'm not sure it will make you very popular with Leaf fans, either.

What does that even do for the Leafs? Their two biggest holes, as far as an outsider looking in can see, is goaltending and #1 center. Your proposal is a package that includes neither of those two, while taking away the Leafs' best player.
Watched a lot of hockey games over the last few years and i'd take Glencross and Giordano over Kessel every day of the week.

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02-08-2013, 05:44 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
Very true.But is Malkin always going to be happy playing second fiddle.
He doesn`t really play second fiddle though, it takes more than one great player to win a cup. Malkin has no trouble at all to assert himself with Crosby on and off the side, it seems, and as far as the media attention goes, he probably prefers it this way. This isn`t a Jordan Staal situation. Malkin gets the linemates, the ice time, the PP time, the money. Nothing to do but wait and see what happens, but there is zero indication of him leaving so far.

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02-08-2013, 05:49 PM
  #803
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
My proposal was more like wishful thinking.

What is the first name you think of when someone mentions the Pens - Crosby.That makes Malkin second fiddle regardless of how good he is.
Second fiddle for the Vienna Philharmonic or first fiddle for Tennessee Bluegrass Ensemble.

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02-08-2013, 05:52 PM
  #804
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Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope View Post
Watched a lot of hockey games over the last few years and i'd take Glencross and Giordano over Kessel every day of the week.
You are literally saying you would take a 3rd liner and 2nd pair dman over one of the premier goal scorers in the world.

This is madness.

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02-08-2013, 05:55 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by MessierII View Post
You kidding? That's a terrible offer. Not 1 top line player or top pairing D in the deal? Toronto would laugh at that.
Well...Giordano is now a top pairing d-man.

He's not a #1, but has become a solid #2.

Glencross also has 54 goals over the last 3 seasons when compared to Kessel's 70. Glencross is more well rounded and is given far less ice time, particularly on the PP. I'm not saying that Glencross is close to being as good as Kessel, but Giordano is a huge piece to add to that proposal.

The value here might be off by a draft pick or prospect, but not "laughable".

If the only thing your willing to take back for Kessel is an all-star, then you'd better expect to get one back that is struggling and soon to be a UFA, as Kessel is.

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02-08-2013, 06:00 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
You are literally saying you would take a 3rd liner and 2nd pair dman over one of the premier goal scorers in the world.

This is madness.
Over the last 3 seasons:

Kessel: 70 goals and .4 GPG

Glencross: 54 goals and .35 GPG

Considering the difference in ice time, the gap between the two isn't as epic as you are making it out to be. Glencross's defensive, physical, and PK parts of his game are much better than Kessel's.

The value might quite not be there with Giordano and Glencross, but both are on considerably better contracts than Kessel and have better all around game. Either is hardly a throw in.

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02-08-2013, 06:07 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Over the last 3 seasons:

Kessel: 70 goals and .4 GPG

Glencross: 54 goals and .35 GPG

Considering the difference in ice time, the gap between the two isn't as epic as you are making it out to be. Glencross's defensive, physical, and PK parts of his game are much better than Kessel's.

The value might quite not be there with Giordano and Glencross, but both are on considerably better contracts than Kessel and have better all around game. Either is hardly a throw in.
But they're not what Toronto needs, or have you missed the thousands of threads discussing Toronto's need for a #1 center, followed closely by all those "Luongo to Toronto" threads because of question marks in nets?

It's not just about value whether it's fair value, it's about team needs.

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02-08-2013, 06:21 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Over the last 3 seasons:

Kessel: 70 goals and .4 GPG

Glencross: 54 goals and .35 GPG

Considering the difference in ice time, the gap between the two isn't as epic as you are making it out to be. Glencross's defensive, physical, and PK parts of his game are much better than Kessel's.

The value might quite not be there with Giordano and Glencross, but both are on considerably better contracts than Kessel and have better all around game. Either is hardly a throw in.
Goals? Lmao. How about you look at more then that? This has to be the worst comparison I have ever seen. Glencross is a borderline 2nd liner/3rd liner, most likely a 2nd liner. I love how you say taking the difference in ice time. You do realize that Kessel gets the time because he is able to be the number 1 option on an NHL team? A top option on a top 10 offensive team, last year? The difference between Glencross and Kessel is HUGE. Glencross is a 2nd/3rd line tweener on a bottom 10 offense in the NHL. Just a ridiculous comparison.

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02-08-2013, 06:48 PM
  #809
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Originally Posted by Kamal007 View Post
Goals? Lmao. How about you look at more then that? This has to be the worst comparison I have ever seen. Glencross is a borderline 2nd liner/3rd liner, most likely a 2nd liner. I love how you say taking the difference in ice time. You do realize that Kessel gets the time because he is able to be the number 1 option on an NHL team? A top option on a top 10 offensive team, last year? The difference between Glencross and Kessel is HUGE. Glencross is a 2nd/3rd line tweener on a bottom 10 offense in the NHL. Just a ridiculous comparison.
Glencross has become one of the best 2nd liners in the NHL. The fact he is able tor produce on even offensively bad teams is a praise not a criticism. It's also not as though we are talking a straight swap here. Giordano, who is the bigger piece in the trade, is also there.

I get it, despite the fact he continually gets the best ice time and opportunities, Kessel has finally put a good season. Quick question though, are you willing to take the opposite opinion in this debate when Calgary outscores Toronto this year? Calgary's GPG is considerably higher than Toronto's this year. Glencross continues to score goals at his consistently great pace.

Edit: To add to this, the problem here is the kind of return you are asking for is in no way realistic....seriously, Malkin?

Kessel is struggling and has 1.5 years left on his contract.

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02-08-2013, 06:48 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
Why not.Pens get sniper to play with Crosby and a second line center.Kessel would get 50 goals a year playing on a line with Crosby.
Crosby doesn't need a sniper.

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02-08-2013, 06:51 PM
  #811
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are people comparing glencross

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02-08-2013, 06:54 PM
  #812
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
You are literally saying you would take a 3rd liner and 2nd pair dman over one of the premier goal scorers in the world.

This is madness.
Did you just label Phil Kessel one of the PREMIER goal scorers in the world?

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02-08-2013, 06:57 PM
  #813
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Originally Posted by TML g u n n e R s View Post
are people comparing glencross
No...

They are saying that a trade of Glencross plus Giordano is a lot closer to Kessel's value than Leaf fans think.

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02-08-2013, 06:59 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Did you just label Phil Kessel one of the PREMIER goal scorers in the world?
People can love or hate Kessel, but anyone who doesn't acknowledge Kessel as premier goal scorer is the one who needs

His among only 7-8 player to score 30+ 4 straight seasons, so yes that makes him a premier goal scorer.

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02-08-2013, 07:00 PM
  #815
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Originally Posted by FireEverybody View Post
You are literally saying you would take a 3rd liner and 2nd pair dman over one of the premier goal scorers in the world.

This is madness.
Well, alot of people outside of Toronto that watches hockey prefer Glencross over Kessel. I'm one of them. The guy busts his ass; uses his body and plays a more complete game than Kessel does. No offense, but if Phil isn't scoring, he doesn't do much.

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02-08-2013, 07:00 PM
  #816
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Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Did you just label Phil Kessel one of the PREMIER goal scorers in the world?
Wow, this post takes Kessel hate to a whole new level. There are so many things to criticize Kessel for, but if you're so blind to think that he isn't one of the top goal scorers in the league, there is no help for you.

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02-08-2013, 07:04 PM
  #817
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Originally Posted by black charger View Post
Why not.Pens get sniper to play with Crosby and a second line center.Kessel would get 50 goals a year playing on a line with Crosby.
Wait, so Kulemin would score 40 with Malkin according to someone in another thread and Kessel would score 50 with Crosby? God, how delusional.

Seriously, Pittsburgh shouldn't touch Phil Kessel. If I'm giving up a good package, I want a responsible two-way player who busts his ass, not a one dimensional player like Phil.

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02-08-2013, 07:09 PM
  #818
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The Kessel hate in this thread is reaching new levels...

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02-08-2013, 07:13 PM
  #819
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Glencross has become one of the best 2nd liners in the NHL. The fact he is able tor produce on even offensively bad teams is a praise not a criticism. It's also not as though we are talking a straight swap here. Giordano, who is the bigger piece in the trade, is also there.

I get it, despite the fact he continually gets the best ice time and opportunities, Kessel has finally put a good season. Quick question though, are you willing to take the opposite opinion in this debate when Calgary outscores Toronto this year? Calgary's GPG is considerably higher than Toronto's this year. Glencross continues to score goals at his consistently great pace.
First: You were comparing Kessel and Glen straight up. I don't care about that trade. No way would I do it but I don't care about it in this point.

Second: lol "finally". Phil Kessel has been a LEGIT first line player for 4 seasons now, before this season. And best ice time and opportunities are EARNED. Phil Kessel has earned the best time on ice, the best opportunities and the most powerplay time. Obviously there are certain situations were some players aren't getting the time they deserve but lets be reality, both players are exactly where they should be in ice time and opportunity. Lets not act like if Glencross was given the same time as Kessel, he would produce anywhere close to him.

My argument wasn't that one plays on a top 10 offense and the other plays on a bottom 10 offense. My argument was that one player is the NUMBER 1 option on a top 10 offense while the other is a 4/5/6 option on a bottom 10 offense, last season.

If Glencross some how becomes the number 1 option on a better offensive team then the leafs, sure, I will say he is the better player. But I don't think he could even be the number 1 option on the 93 Senators.

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02-08-2013, 07:23 PM
  #820
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Originally Posted by OCPenguin View Post
Well, alot of people outside of Toronto that watches hockey prefer Glencross over Kessel. I'm one of them. The guy busts his ass; uses his body and plays a more complete game than Kessel does. No offense, but if Phil isn't scoring, he doesn't do much.
And if Malkin isn't scoring, he doesn't do much either. In fact a couple of weeks ago against Toronto he got a goal, but was a turn over machine. Plus he's prone to bad penalties.

I'm not being entirely serious. But this argument "if x player isn't scoring he isn't doing much" can apply to the best offensive players in the league. Is Patrick Kane doing much when he isn't scoring?

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02-08-2013, 07:25 PM
  #821
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
The Kessel hate in this thread is reaching new levels...
Yup, which is fine by me as i prefer to keep him.

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02-08-2013, 07:26 PM
  #822
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
The Kessel hate in this thread is reaching new levels...
not any different from other threads involving leafs players

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02-08-2013, 07:29 PM
  #823
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Originally Posted by Kamal007 View Post
First: You were comparing Kessel and Glen straight up. I don't care about that trade. No way would I do it but I don't care about it in this point.

Second: lol "finally". Phil Kessel has been a LEGIT first line player for 4 seasons now, before this season. And best ice time and opportunities are EARNED. Phil Kessel has earned the best time on ice, the best opportunities and the most powerplay time. Obviously there are certain situations were some players aren't getting the time they deserve but lets be reality, both players are exactly where they should be in ice time and opportunity. Lets not act like if Glencross was given the same time as Kessel, he would produce anywhere close to him.

My argument wasn't that one plays on a top 10 offense and the other plays on a bottom 10 offense. My argument was that one player is the NUMBER 1 option on a top 10 offense while the other is a 4/5/6 option on a bottom 10 offense, last season.


If Glencross some how becomes the number 1 option on a better offensive team then the leafs, sure, I will say he is the better player. But I don't think he could even be the number 1 option on the 93 Senators.
First, I compared them, but did not say they were equivalent, hence why Giordano, who is the main piece, was added to the trade. I stated their goal scoring capabilities were not as epicly far apart as you are making it out to be. Glencross also brings far more than just goal scoring to the table. That being said the value of a 30-35 goal scorer is considerably higher than that of a 25 goal scorer, hence why Giordano is also included here.

Also, Kessel has only been a legit first line player since coming to Toronto, where there is little competition for that role. He's also only had one good year doing so.

Also, you should take a look at contracts. Gio and Glencross have pretty amazing ones. Kessel is a UFA in 1.5 years. If you're expecting a package of Malkin or Seguin back for a struggling Kessel, you're dreaming. Think more on the level of Lucic. You're either looking at taking on another one-dimensional first liner who is struggling or a second liner who is more well rounded.

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02-08-2013, 07:32 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Sonny21 View Post
People can love or hate Kessel, but anyone who doesn't acknowledge Kessel as premier goal scorer is the one who needs

His among only 7-8 player to score 30+ 4 straight seasons, so yes that makes him a premier goal scorer.
The guy has 4 thirty goal seasons in a row. So does bobby ryan. I consider this one of the BETTER goal scorers , but to suggest their are top tier PREMIER is ridiculous.

I believe you need to be a very subjective Kessel fan to call him that..

Stephen Stamkos, or Sidney Crosby or Malkin or a whole raft of other guys who have actually scored at least 50 goals once would be considered premier.

Hell, Kessel has not even scored 40 goals one single time in his career. Not once.

PREMIER???

Name an objective hockey analyst who considers Phil Kessel to be in the same league with those guys.

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02-08-2013, 07:34 PM
  #825
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankall View Post
No...

They are saying that a trade of Glencross plus Giordano is a lot closer to Kessel's value than Leaf fans think.
yea leafs dont make this trade at all... makes no sense..

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