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Red Sox/MLB 2013 Thread Part XXII-Opening Day!

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Old
03-28-2013, 09:01 PM
  #476
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Sweeney ****ing blows, he should not make this team.

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03-28-2013, 09:08 PM
  #477
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Two thoughts:

1. This premise assumes the "year of control" actually means anything. For this to be true, he needs to a) be a player they badly want to keep, b) be a player intent on testing free agency (and yeah I know Boras this and that), c) he needs to be a player costly enough to cause a contract issue. Altogether I think these are unlikely. Possible, but still, that lost year of control just means he costs you a bit more...so what? Which brings me to my second point...

2. Given how this franchise stands in this city right now, the start they had last year and the general feeling folks have for them putting business over baseball, I think this decision was already made. He's making this team. This ownership group is not going to hold this kid back to possibly save a few bucks at the risk of fielding a lesser team on Day 1. They're way too sensitive to bad PR.
That part gets me. He is on the verge of skipping AAA-ball. You are making the argument that he should be with the team now (at least that is my understanding), based on talent. If he is that talented at the age of 22, why would you think he won't be a player worth keeping after 6 (or 7 years)? I think the Boras angle speaks for itself.

I think Bradley is a good player already. I would hold him out for the two or 3 weeks to push the first year of service time. This team is building for the future. They have the #7 pick. They traded a lot of big names (granted they were playing poorly) for prospects and salary relief. The farm system has made great strides. If you can guarantee control of Bradley for at least 6 years with Bogaerts and 5 years of Middlebrooks, you have a solid foundation for the better part of a decade. For the first 3 years of that trio, they are all pre-arbitration. Major cost control. In terms of business, as well as on the field, holding him back for a few weeks provides long-term benefits. If this team was a legit world series contender, it might be different, but Bradley doesn't put this team over the top. They are a middle of the pack team and will be fighting for the second wild card spot at best.

One other note, at this point, I think the people that plan on going to early season Red Sox games have already made up their minds. Bradley won't sway anyone. Maybe he slightly impacts the tv ratings, but even that is a stretch. Again, I think highly of him, but he's not Giancarlo or Strasburg right now.

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03-28-2013, 09:21 PM
  #478
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Sweeney told he didn't make the team. That means JBJ should start the season with the Red Sox.

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Bradley says he hasn't been told anything but he and Carp are on the club it appears

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03-28-2013, 10:34 PM
  #479
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Making decisions based on spring training numbers is an easy way to make a lot of mistakes.

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03-29-2013, 12:28 AM
  #480
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Yeah but JBJ earned it. Granted, that extra year of control would be nice but reality is if he is the player we hope he is he will be signed long term well before 2018

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03-29-2013, 08:26 AM
  #481
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Buchholtz is locked in watched the game last night he and Lester are going to be good this year, hopefuly the rest of the starters do there job, I think were closer to the 2011 through August than what we have been lately.

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03-29-2013, 11:20 AM
  #482
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I really REALLY hope this is the ARod, Cano, Granderson, Braun suspension rumor coming true.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:34 PM
  #483
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Verlander signed a monster extension with the Tigers. Not too smart for Detroit IMO.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/91...illion-sources

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:42 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Making decisions based on spring training numbers is an easy way to make a lot of mistakes.
They have 6 years to send him down for the 20 days and maintain that extra year. The guy was their best player for the spring. It's cool that they've rewarded him with the chance to break camp with the big club. Doesn't mean he won't hit a spell during the season and get sent down to cover the time needed to keep control. Besides that, what type of message does it send that the guy would rake and not even get a sniff just because of some arbitrary worry about 7 years from now?

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03-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #485
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Why should we even care about 7 years from now I mean the only player we have for sure is Pedroia, who isn't even under contract, and Middlebrooks. Can't we just watch this team have fun win some games and ***** about the day to day issues.

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03-29-2013, 01:46 PM
  #486
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Verlander signed a monster extension with the Tigers. Not too smart for Detroit IMO.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/91...illion-sources
Don't get that move at all for Detroit...he was still 2 years away from free agency I believe. They now have 90 million tied up to Cabrera/Verlander/Fielder/Sanchez in 2015.

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03-29-2013, 02:26 PM
  #487
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They have 6 years to send him down for the 20 days and maintain that extra year. The guy was their best player for the spring. It's cool that they've rewarded him with the chance to break camp with the big club. Doesn't mean he won't hit a spell during the season and get sent down to cover the time needed to keep control. Besides that, what type of message does it send that the guy would rake and not even get a sniff just because of some arbitrary worry about 7 years from now?
10 games.

10.

And what kind of message does it send to a guy that has never played AAA ball? Um, spring training doesn't count because it tends to be fools gold.

You are all basing this on spring training. The field of dead hope is littered with the bodies of spring training stats.

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Old
03-29-2013, 02:36 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
10 games.

10.

And what kind of message does it send to a guy that has never played AAA ball? Um, spring training doesn't count because it tends to be fools gold.

You are all basing this on spring training. The field of dead hope is littered with the bodies of spring training stats.
You want to talk about messages, what message does it send to the team that your not giving them everything in your power to win, holding back a deserving player for 7years down the road and how many of the 25 will be here in 7 years can't be higher than 10 players.

How would you like to be a player in a divison thats going to be tight right down to the end not be given the best chance to win by your managment for somthing your not going to be around for?

What message does a mid season trade like V-mart send, were trying to win it boosts moral, ten days and a moral downer for a team coming off of a crap year yeah but 10 million dollars in 7 years is too much of a cost, if Bradley wins you one game and you in 89 and win the division because Tampa finishes with 88 but no holy crap can't surrender 10 million of my Billions and Billions of dollars down the road god forbid.

Guess what if he does not hit its a non-issue because you send him down retian his year, if he hits well Your getting Damn good value for what he is being paid now.

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Old
03-29-2013, 02:39 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
10 games.

10.

And what kind of message does it send to a guy that has never played AAA ball? Um, spring training doesn't count because it tends to be fools gold.

You are all basing this on spring training. The field of dead hope is littered with the bodies of spring training stats.
6 Years to make up those ten games. 6 years. 972 games to find a 20 day pocket for this guy to go back down. It's not like the clock starts ticking day one. They have time to send him back down because young players always slump.

Look at Bard. He was lights out a few years ago, and where is he today? Nobody would have thought even 2 years ago that he'd be sent back down to the minors, yet there he is. You put the best team on the field for the time being, and when (or if) Ortiz comes back, you reevaluate. Reward the kid for a great spring. If anything a taste of the majors at the start of the season before getting sent back down will be great motivation for him to work hard and make it back up here.

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Old
03-29-2013, 02:43 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
6 Years to make up those ten games. 6 years. 972 games to find a 20 day pocket for this guy to go back down. It's not like the clock starts ticking day one. They have time to send him back down because young players always slump.

Look at Bard. He was lights out a few years ago, and where is he today? Nobody would have thought even 2 years ago that he'd be sent back down to the minors, yet there he is. You put the best team on the field for the time being, and when (or if) Ortiz comes back, you reevaluate. Reward the kid for a great spring. If anything a taste of the majors at the start of the season before getting sent back down will be great motivation for him to work hard and make it back up here.
I agree with you on Bradley but the Managment ****ed up Bard trying to make him a starter, Now he may never be the same, relievers are reliever Champman might be the next great one destroyed by greedy managment.

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03-29-2013, 02:43 PM
  #491
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Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
10 games.

10.

And what kind of message does it send to a guy that has never played AAA ball? Um, spring training doesn't count because it tends to be fools gold.

You are all basing this on spring training. The field of dead hope is littered with the bodies of spring training stats.
Good poster, but what are you talking about? Somehow it's a bad message to give someone a spot on the team who deserves it based on talent & performance but it would be a good message to tell someone they didn't make the team because of cba rules & paperwork?

Your argument on its face is pretty bad.

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03-29-2013, 02:49 PM
  #492
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I agree with you on Bradley but the Managment ****ed up Bard trying to make him a starter, Now he may never be the same, relievers are reliever Champman might be the next great one destroyed by greedy managment.
He wanted to start so they decided they wanted to give it a shot. It's hard because clearly starters are more valuable than relievers, and Bard had dynamic stuff. Same thing with Chapman. Guy throws darts, so you want it to translate to being a starter. Problem is that guys who throw pure gas can only do it for so long and usually have a limited number of pitches too. When you drop a 99 MPH fast ball down to 94-95 just to be able to try and go 5 innings, and you only have a fastball and change up, you go from being un-hittable to very predictable. It's why they were relievers to start with.

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03-29-2013, 02:52 PM
  #493
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He wanted to start so they decided they wanted to give it a shot. It's hard because clearly starters are more valuable than relievers, and Bard had dynamic stuff. Same thing with Chapman. Guy throws darts, so you want it to translate to being a starter. Problem is that guys who throw pure gas can only do it for so long and usually have a limited number of pitches too. When you drop a 99 MPH fast ball down to 94-95 just to be able to try and go 5 innings, and you only have a fastball and change up, you go from being un-hittable to very predictable. It's why they were relievers to start with.
Yes but I was more disagreeing with Bard being your example of a player going through a slump, it was a role change he could not handle.

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03-29-2013, 02:56 PM
  #494
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Yes but I was more disagreeing with Bard being your example of a player going through a slump, it was a role change he could not handle.
Sure, but my point wasn't that Bard couldn't handle a roll change, it was that nobody expected Bard to get sent back down. Bradley comes up and struggles, he goes back down. Simple as that.

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03-29-2013, 02:58 PM
  #495
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Good poster, but what are you talking about? Somehow it's a bad message to give someone a spot on the team who deserves it based on talent & performance but it would be a good message to tell someone they didn't make the team because of cba rules & paperwork?

Your argument on its face is pretty bad.
Did his work in the minors, which doesn't include playing above Double A, warrant a major league spot?

If yes, sure, do it. I still think holding out til the 12th is best, but I'd get that. I can see the logic there at least.

Making a decision based on spring training numbers, which are one step above totally useless, is something stupid teams do.

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03-29-2013, 03:00 PM
  #496
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Sure, but my point wasn't that Bard couldn't handle a roll change, it was that nobody expected Bard to get sent back down. Bradley comes up and struggles, he goes back down. Simple as that.
If he is good enough to make it so he never deserves to go down (aka the potential problem) every fan is going to wish the team had an extra year of control.

All so he can maybe, maybe, be the difference of one win.

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03-29-2013, 03:05 PM
  #497
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Did his work in the minors, which doesn't include playing above Double A, warrant a major league spot?

If yes, sure, do it. I still think holding out til the 12th is best, but I'd get that. I can see the logic there at least.

Making a decision based on spring training numbers, which are one step above totally useless, is something stupid teams do.
You realize that AA is where most of the true prospects are now stashed versus AAA, right? Triple A is really nothing more than the lifers and a few fringe guys who go up and down. Double A is where all the big time pitching prospects go to develop, and plenty of those guy go right from Double A to the pros.

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03-29-2013, 03:10 PM
  #498
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You realize that AA is where most of the true prospects are now stashed versus AAA, right? Triple A is really nothing more than the lifers and a few fringe guys who go up and down. Double A is where all the big time pitching prospects go to develop, and plenty of those guy go right from Double A to the pros.
Who is the last Sox prospect that is true of?

Lester? Pedroia? buchholz?

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03-29-2013, 03:13 PM
  #499
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Who is the last Sox prospect that is true of?

Lester? Pedroia? buchholz?
Hanley Ramirez went right from Double A to the big leagues, all be it for Florida after he was traded. Casey Kelly did to, IICRC. Middlebrooks played all of 30ish games for Pawtucket after spending the majority of his minor league time Double A before getting called up. Same thing for Kalish. So is a 30 game stint in triple a really a huge building block in a players development at this point?

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03-29-2013, 03:15 PM
  #500
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Hanley Ramirez went right from Double A to the big leagues, all be it for Florida after he was traded. Casey Kelly did to, IICRC.
So the Sox don't do it, right?

They all play in AAA and tend to get playing time in September?

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