HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Boston Bruins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Red Sox/MLB 2013 Thread Part XXII-Opening Day!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-29-2013, 03:15 PM
  #501
Kelly23
Pedroia and Drew
 
Kelly23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 5,475
vCash: 500
If the Redsox gain one win from Bradley and it is the difference betwwen play-offs or not is it worth it? yes or no

Kelly23 is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:16 PM
  #502
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Had to look up IICRC.

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:17 PM
  #503
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly23 View Post
If the Redsox gain one win from Bradley and it is the difference betwwen play-offs or not is it worth it? yes or no
Is it likely?

What are the odds the player that plays in his spot doesn't give you half a win?

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:19 PM
  #504
CDJ
Registered User
 
CDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 10,221
vCash: 500
Casey Fossum went from AA to the bigs I think too.

How'd that go?

CDJ is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:20 PM
  #505
Therick67
Registered User
 
Therick67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South of Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 5,140
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Is it likely?

What are the odds the player that plays in his spot doesn't give you half a win?
You've seen this teams roster, right?

Therick67 is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:24 PM
  #506
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
So the Sox don't do it, right?

They all play in AAA and tend to get playing time in September?
So where do the Sox top prospect play to truly develop? Triple A or Double A?

LSCII is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:27 PM
  #507
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
So where do the Sox top prospect play to truly develop? Triple A or Double A?
Changing the discussion.

The Sox never do what you are saying they should. You want them to do it based on spring training numbers.

Do guys develop at Double A? Yeah. But the Sox always finish that development at Triple A and usually In September in the bigs.

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:28 PM
  #508
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
So the Sox don't do it, right?

They all play in AAA and tend to get playing time in September?
Most of the top guys do their development and play the majority of their minor league time in Double A across the league. They may be sent down to Triple A for a short period of time before the call up (a la Mike Trout last year, where he played all of 20 games at that level -and we know why too, right?), but the bulk of their at bats and minor league time overall is at the AA level. So unless you're putting a huge amount of stock in 50ish AAA at bats, I don't see what the point to Bradley having not gone there is. You've continually discounted what he's done this spring, but that's at least been against far better competition than he'd get in AAA.

LSCII is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:31 PM
  #509
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Most of the top guys do their development and play the majority of their minor league time in Double A across the league. They may be sent down to Triple A for a short period of time before the call up (a la Mike Trout last year, where he played all of 20 games at that level -and we know why too, right?), but the bulk of their at bats and minor league time overall is at the AA level. So unless you're putting a huge amount of stock in 50ish AAA at bats, I don't see what the point to Bradley having not gone there is. You've continually discounted what he's done this spring, but that's at least been against far better competition than he'd get in AAA.
Do. The. Sox. Ever. Do. What. You. Are. Suggesting. They. Do?

Since you won't answer I will.

Nope.

They haven't done it with better prospects and they haven't done it with guys that were more successful in the minor leagues.

And yes, I am 99% discounting spring training numbers. Of course I am. But only because I know they are fools gold.

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:33 PM
  #510
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Also, you are exaggerating greatly how little time good prospects play in AAA.

Especially for the Sox.

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:34 PM
  #511
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Changing the discussion.

The Sox never do what you are saying they should. You want them to do it based on spring training numbers.

Do guys develop at Double A? Yeah. But the Sox always finish that development at Triple A and usually In September in the bigs.
Not true. Kalish, Reddick, and the others I mentioned all played more time at double a than triple a when they were called up. They may have gone back down and played more extensively in triple a after that call up, but they went from a small (as in 30-40 games) sample in triple a to the majors.

Also, his spring training numbers are at least against major league players. Triple A numbers will not be. Which is a better gauge is up to you to decide.

LSCII is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:35 PM
  #512
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Do. The. Sox. Ever. Do. What. You. Are. Suggesting. They. Do?

Since you won't answer I will.

Nope.

They haven't done it with better prospects and they haven't done it with guys that were more successful in the minor leagues.

And yes, I am 99% discounting spring training numbers. Of course I am. But only because I know they are fools gold.
Maybe not in their past history, but the answer now is clearly yes, since they're doing it with Jackie Bradley Junior this year.

LSCII is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:39 PM
  #513
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Not true. Kalish, Reddick, and the others I mentioned all played more time at double a than triple a when they were called up. They may have gone back down and played more extensively in triple a after that call up, but they went from a small (as in 30-40 games) sample in triple a to the majors.

Also, his spring training numbers are at least against major league players. Triple A numbers will not be. Which is a better gauge is up to you to decide.
I'm not debating where the majority of their games are in the minors.

I feel like you are conceding this would be a total anomaly but are being very difficult about it.

His spring training numbers are against major leaguers? Huh?

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:44 PM
  #514
CDJ
Registered User
 
CDJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Cape Cod
Country: United States
Posts: 10,221
vCash: 500
But guys....Casey Fossum.


Let's bring him back. He's got a killer eephus nowadays

CDJ is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:53 PM
  #515
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
I'm not debating where the majority of their games are in the minors.

I feel like you are conceding this would be a total anomaly but are being very difficult about it.

His spring training numbers are against major leaguers? Huh?
Hit a bomb off of Cliff Lee a couple of games back. Last time I checked, Lee was in the majors, no?

LSCII is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:57 PM
  #516
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Hit a bomb off of Cliff Lee a couple of games back. Last time I checked, Lee was in the majors, no?
Oh man, I'm sorry. I didn't realize the results of one at bat. Clearly that one at bat proves everything. Not only does it prove it, but veteran major league pitchers are always at or trying at 100% in spring training.

Cause that has never happened before.

Stop it. You aren't even trying anymore.

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 03:59 PM
  #517
LSCII
Dark Cloud
 
LSCII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Central MA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,976
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EverettMike View Post
Oh man, I'm sorry. I didn't realize the results of one at bat. Clearly that one at bat proves everything. Not only does it prove it, but veteran major league pitchers are always at or trying at 100% in spring training.

Cause that has never happened before.

Stop it. You aren't even trying anymore.
Very nice condescension all because I disagree with you.

If I combed the box scores, I'm sure I could find plenty of other games this spring where Bradley was able to get hits against major league pitchers, but since it doesn't fit your argument, you'd rather pull this routine.

LSCII is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 04:10 PM
  #518
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Very nice condescension all because I disagree with you.

If I combed the box scores, I'm sure I could find plenty of other games this spring where Bradley was able to get hits against major league pitchers, but since it doesn't fit your argument, you'd rather pull this routine.
It isn't cause you disagree with me, it is because your argument keeps getting weaker.

And I'm not saying he doesn't have any hits off of big leaguers. I am saying his spring training numbers are meaningless. Including a bomb off Lee. Lee may have been working on a pitch, or just throwing to build arm strength.

You don't know because, again, it is spring training.

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 04:26 PM
  #519
EverettMike
Registered User
 
EverettMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Everett, MA
Country: United States
Posts: 25,397
vCash: 500
Dustin Pedroia

Played 66 games in AA in 2005.

Played in 51 games in AAA in 2005.

In 2006 he played 111 games in 2006. He then played 31 games in the big at the end of September.

Jacoby Ellsbury

Played 50 games in Double A in 2006.

Played in 17 games in Double A in 2007.

He played in 87 games in Triple A in 2007.

Jon Lester

Pitched in 26 games for 148.1 innings in Double A in 2005.

Pitched in 11 games for 46.2 innings in Triple A in 2006.

In 2007 he pitched in A, AA, and AAA.

In terms of innings:

A - 13
AA - 6
AAA - 71.2

EverettMike is online now  
Old
03-29-2013, 09:48 PM
  #520
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 20,282
vCash: 500
http://www.sports-reference.com/blog...ition-measure/

baseball reference introduced the opponent quality number this spring training.

it combs the long (long) spring training games so that you don't have to and assigns a number ranking from 1-10 for each player and what level they're at. for those too lazy to click through because they don't want to read all the nerd numbers: 1.5-3 is rookie to short season ball, 4 is low a, 5 is high a, 6-7 is aa, 8 is aaa and 10 is big league pitchin'.

bradley is doing what he's doing with an 8.2 oq average, aaa on average.

my big concern, which some don't seem to share, is that the red sox are not in a realistic competition for the division title this season. i don't believe in losing a year of control over a player to gain a believed advantage in a division that you don't have a realistic shot of winning. bradley makes them a better player this year. i don't see the harm in putting him in double or triple a, delaying the clock on him coming up, and seeing whether this is an aberration or not.

robert terwilliger is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 09:59 PM
  #521
Kelly23
Pedroia and Drew
 
Kelly23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 5,475
vCash: 500
Why won't this team contend they are Adrian Gonzo away from the 100 win pace 2011 team.

Buchholtz and Lester are going to be sick, Dempster, Lackey, and Dubront just have to pitch to there roles.

Hanrahan is key if he does what he can do our bullpen has the chance to be lights out.

The defence should be good above average wherever we end up.

The offence should be alright, Napoli should Kill fenway, when Ortiz gets back our line-up is legit.
Out of 5 stars
Pitching is 4 stars
Defence is 4.5 stars
Hitting is 4 stars
Speed should not be not be an issue with 8-3 in the order

I am feeling good about this year Lester and Buchh are going to be great.

Kelly23 is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 10:07 PM
  #522
robert terwilliger
the bart, the
 
robert terwilliger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: sw florida
Country: United States
Posts: 20,282
vCash: 500
i think tampa and toronto are light years ahead of the rest of the division.

robert terwilliger is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 10:11 PM
  #523
Shaun
Registered User
 
Shaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Country: Italy
Posts: 23,057
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly23 View Post
Why won't this team contend they are Adrian Gonzo away from the 100 win pace 2011 team.

Buchholtz and Lester are going to be sick, Dempster, Lackey, and Dubront just have to pitch to there roles.

Hanrahan is key if he does what he can do our bullpen has the chance to be lights out.

The defence should be good above average wherever we end up.

The offence should be alright, Napoli should Kill fenway, when Ortiz gets back our line-up is legit.
Out of 5 stars
Pitching is 4 stars
Defence is 4.5 stars
Hitting is 4 stars
Speed should not be not be an issue with 8-3 in the order

I am feeling good about this year Lester and Buchh are going to be great.
I doubt Ortiz comes back before the All Star break.

Shaun is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 10:45 PM
  #524
Avs_19
Peter the Great
 
Avs_19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,380
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
my big concern, which some don't seem to share, is that the red sox are not in a realistic competition for the division title this season. i don't believe in losing a year of control over a player to gain a believed advantage in a division that you don't have a realistic shot of winning. bradley makes them a better player this year. i don't see the harm in putting him in double or triple a, delaying the clock on him coming up, and seeing whether this is an aberration or not.
If they do have another terrible season and are out of it, they can send him down towards the end of the season. They could even send him down after Ortiz returns if he doesn't get off to a good start. Not talking about you specifically but some people are making way too big of a deal out of this. It's not like they automatically lose a year of control if he's in the line up on Monday.

Avs_19 is offline  
Old
03-29-2013, 10:47 PM
  #525
Kelly23
Pedroia and Drew
 
Kelly23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 5,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert terwilliger View Post
i think tampa and toronto are light years ahead of the rest of the division.
We will see if Toronto meshes as hoped I mean half there team was going to make the Marlins a power last year

Tampa still can't hit, but Longoria is sick and he might provide them with sufficient runs everynight b/c thier pitching.

Red Sox 90-72- A hot start leads to fun leads to wins
Rays 88-74 - Consistant team Red Sox finally get the head to head wins
Jays 87-75 - Starts slow ends decent WC push
Yankees 80-82 - Typical 25 game win streak keeps them in it but never find traction w/ injuries
Baltimore 80-82 - One run game luck runs out

Kelly23 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:33 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.