HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Carolina Hurricanes
Notices

Poll: Eric Staal vs. Ron Francis

View Poll Results: Staal or Francis
Eric Staal 4 17.39%
Ron Francis 19 82.61%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-10-2013, 08:27 PM
  #1
Finlandia WOAT
Do U Like Quebec?
 
Finlandia WOAT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Raleigh NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,017
vCash: 500
Poll: Eric Staal vs. Ron Francis

I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Under adjusted points, it would seem Staal is a 75+ players while Francis is a 70+. Eric is MUCH more goal oriented, and Francis gets the edge in assists (all adjusted, of course).

On thing that struck me though, is that neither are really known for their dominating seasons: they are known for their consistency (at least from season to season, game to game, let's not talk about that).

Who would you rather have? Eric Staal or Ronnie Franchise?

Finlandia WOAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:37 PM
  #2
Head Goose
Doing Less Better
 
Head Goose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Raleigh
Country: United States
Posts: 6,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Under adjusted points, it would seem Staal is a 75+ players while Francis is a 70+. Eric is MUCH more goal oriented, and Francis gets the edge in assists (all adjusted, of course).

On thing that struck me though, is that neither are really known for their dominating seasons: they are known for their consistency (at least from season to season, game to game, let's not talk about that).

Who would you rather have? Eric Staal or Ronnie Franchise?

The real question is: What are the Claude Giroux-adjusted stats?

Head Goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:39 PM
  #3
Obi Wan LaRosie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 1,690
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Obi Wan LaRosie Send a message via Yahoo to Obi Wan LaRosie
This is not a discussion......

What is a discussion, is what are adjusted stats?

Obi Wan LaRosie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:48 PM
  #4
halleJOKEL
strong as brickwall
 
halleJOKEL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: NC
Country: United States
Posts: 4,679
vCash: 500
Ground floor.

halleJOKEL is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:49 PM
  #5
Chicago Made Punk
You're Gonna Go Far
 
Chicago Made Punk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 14,649
vCash: 446
Francis in the regular season, Staal in the playoffs. Francis is closer to beating out Staal in the playoffs than Staal is to beating out Francis in the regular season for me. So Francis.

Chicago Made Punk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 08:50 PM
  #6
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,857
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moosetache View Post
This is not a discussion......

What is a discussion, is what are adjusted stats?
Essentially adjusted stats take a players production in a given season and calculate what their production would be in a more normal NHL season from a scoring standpoint. There's flaws to it due to changes in coaching styles over the years, but it's a very reliable indicator of where a player stands in relation to their peers.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 09:10 PM
  #7
Blueline Bomber
Expectations - high
 
Blueline Bomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 21,627
vCash: 500
I hate this term, but in this case, it applies:

Francis, and it's not even close.

Blueline Bomber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 09:41 PM
  #8
bleedgreen
Moderator
 
bleedgreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado
Posts: 10,555
vCash: 500
Brass bonanza forevah and evah.

bleedgreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 09:58 PM
  #9
Roboturner913
Registered User
 
Roboturner913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,070
vCash: 500
Francis. Better defensively, better at faceoffs, better passer, better leader of men, just a better overall player. Only thing Staal really has on him is goal-scoring ability.

Roboturner913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 10:13 PM
  #10
Anton Dubinchuk
Danny Markov
 
Anton Dubinchuk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 9,596
vCash: 4057
The Franchise.

Staal's nice, but we'll let him captain us to at least the playoffs before this even starts to think about maybe becoming a discussion.

Anton Dubinchuk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 10:18 PM
  #11
wallym
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,943
vCash: 615
On a team with a lot of good players, I'd want Francis. On a team with just a few good players, I'd take Staal.

I never thought of Francis as a put the team on his back kind of guy, as much as a make everyone better type of player. Staal on the other hand has a beast mode, which you have to have when you're going to be playing with Tlusty's and Larose's for a lot of your career.

wallym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 11:34 PM
  #12
Lazyking
Never Forget
 
Lazyking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 3,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
On a team with a lot of good players, I'd want Francis. On a team with just a few good players, I'd take Staal.

I never thought of Francis as a put the team on his back kind of guy, as much as a make everyone better type of player. Staal on the other hand has a beast mode, which you have to have when you're going to be playing with Tlusty's and Larose's for a lot of your career.
This.

Lazyking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-10-2013, 11:41 PM
  #13
La Huracanista
Registered User
 
La Huracanista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Raleigh
Posts: 506
vCash: 500
I'd actually say Francis's numbers benefit from the length of his career. But he brought a Selke caliber defensive game to the ice as well (not that Staal's a slouch but he's no Selke candidate).

Staal's number 12 will be in our rafters some day, but until then this is a pretty easy choice. Francis.

La Huracanista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 12:21 AM
  #14
Roboturner913
Registered User
 
Roboturner913's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,070
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallym View Post
I never thought of Francis as a put the team on his back kind of guy, as much as a make everyone better type of player.
As much as I agree with this statement (and I do) I think that is what makes Francis the better guy to have around. Francis may not ever be able to hold the puck in the offensive zone for 10 minutes with three guys draped all over him, but he inspired the other guys to the point where they would make sure he was never in that situation to begin with.

We're not in the locker room, so we don't know the extent or nature of EStaal's leadership. He may not be lacking much in that department, but he ain't no Ron Francis or Rod Brind'Amour. Some of that just naturally has to come with age and experience though.

Roboturner913 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 01:33 AM
  #15
Carolinas Identity
#freehope
 
Carolinas Identity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: United States
Posts: 6,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77
Claude Giroux adjusted? It doesn't matter otherwise.

Carolinas Identity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 06:38 AM
  #16
Head Goose
Doing Less Better
 
Head Goose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Raleigh
Country: United States
Posts: 6,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi Trollinen View Post
Claude Giroux adjusted? It doesn't matter otherwise.
See post 2 of this thread. HF meme already covered.

Head Goose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 07:07 AM
  #17
Joe McGrath
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,083
vCash: 500
Francis. It really shouldn't have to be debated, unless you don't count face-offs, defensive ability, or leadership skills for a center and a captain as important.

Joe McGrath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:04 AM
  #18
Beardy*
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 631
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plan The Parade View Post
I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Under adjusted points, it would seem Staal is a 75+ players while Francis is a 70+. Eric is MUCH more goal oriented, and Francis gets the edge in assists (all adjusted, of course).

On thing that struck me though, is that neither are really known for their dominating seasons: they are known for their consistency (at least from season to season, game to game, let's not talk about that).

Who would you rather have? Eric Staal or Ronnie Franchise?
Honestly, at this point in their careers, Jordan Staal reminds me more of Francis than Eric does. He's more defensively responsible, he tries to set up his linemates for great scoring chances, he's pretty good in the faceoff circle, and he's going to load up on the assists far more than he will the goals.

Eric is just a beast in his own regard. Not overly sure there is anyone else you can really compare him to right now. He's been carrying teams on his back for years while having little talent on his line. Assuming we re-sign Semin, I have a feeling we'll have a much different opinion of him, in a good way, about 5 years from now.

Beardy* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-11-2013, 08:25 AM
  #19
Boom Boom Anton
Registered User
 
Boom Boom Anton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,248
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beardy View Post
Honestly, at this point in their careers, Jordan Staal reminds me more of Francis than Eric does. He's more defensively responsible
Agree that he's more defensively responsible.

Quote:
he tries to set up his linemates for great scoring chances
I don't necessarily agree with that. He creates space using his size and strength and helps control the puck down low and this obviously benefits a skilled player like Skinner, but he's not much of a playmaker setting guys up (like Francis was). In fact, if you look at their careers, Jordan's assist / point ratio is 53% and Eric's is 56%. The two of them go about it different ways, but Jordan has not traditionally been a guy setting guys up.

Quote:
he's pretty good in the faceoff circle
Last season: Jordan's FO%: 51%, Eric's FO%: 52.5%.
This season: Jordan's FO%: 48%, Eric's FO%: 51.5%

Eric has been better the last two years.

Quote:
and he's going to load up on the assists far more than he will the goals.
Maybe he'll become that way in Carolina, but as I showed above, that hasn't been the case to this point in Jordan's career.

Anyhow, in terms of this poll, it's pretty easily Francis for me.

Boom Boom Anton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 05:42 AM
  #20
ChuckW
We'll be back.
 
ChuckW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,212
vCash: 500
Someone post their real stats, not their "adjusted" stats.

ChuckW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 11:56 AM
  #21
jayhamm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 169
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
Someone post their real stats, not their "adjusted" stats.
If we post the real stats it's not even close to compare them offensively as the 90s had a completely different level of offense.

jayhamm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:05 PM
  #22
Lazyking
Never Forget
 
Lazyking's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 3,586
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckW View Post
Someone post their real stats, not their "adjusted" stats.
Staal Pts: 31, 100, 70, 82, 75, 70, 76, 70

Francis Pts: 68, 90, 83, 81, 77, 93, 75, 77, 101, 87, 54, 100, 93, 59, 119, 90, 87, 52, 73, 65, 77, 57, 40

I really think adjusted stats is the way to go given the era's inflation.

Lazyking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:09 PM
  #23
WhiteTrashAmerican
WHY DID IT END
 
WhiteTrashAmerican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlotte, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,541
vCash: 500
Gave Staal a pity vote. If Staal had a Semin-quality winger for the past few years this would be closer....But Francis' defensive skills pretty much win this for him(Selke caliber). I think Staal is a better overall offensive player though.

WhiteTrashAmerican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:31 PM
  #24
Novacane
My Hero
 
Novacane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 17,741
vCash: 500
Admittedly I barely remember Francis playing for Carolina, so I will not vote. I can't make a fair assessment of his abilities. But I will add something to think about (or not ). Did Francis develop his Selke caliber defense/faceoff ability/leadership when his offense started dropping off? In other words, are we comparing the stats of the two players in the same age of their career, but also crediting Francis with extra "stuff" even though he may have developed those later in his career. Perhaps we are knocking Eric a little too much for things that Francis didn't develop at this point either. But as I said, I have no clue, just adding conversation.

Novacane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-12-2013, 12:36 PM
  #25
geehaad
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 3,002
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeMPV View Post
If Staal had a Semin-quality winger for the past few years this would be closer....But Francis' defensive skills pretty much win this for him(Selke caliber). I think Staal is a better overall offensive player though.
Jeff O'Neill-quality, perhaps?

geehaad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:48 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.