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Oilers lose 3-2 to the Stars

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Old
02-07-2013, 04:39 AM
  #301
488McFitter
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The overreaction in here is fun to read.

Nuge - Out
Horcoff - Out
Jones - Out
Belanger - Out
Lander - Out
Eager - Out
Fistric - Out

That's a lot of key pieces when you factor in how defensively sound this group is....the face-off capability of a few....and the muscle of Eager and Fistric alone instantly change the make-up of our team compared to tonight. Granted Eager won't always be a starter but you get the jest of it. Not to mention there was someone centring our first line that played in his first NHL game tonight that will soon be replaced by a guy that has the best vision on our whole team.

We've lost 3 games in regulation this year so far. I'm pretty fine with that. Insert the above names mentioned into the line-up and there's no question we are a better team. So I don't understand the panic.

We out shot the stars, battled back, and ultimately left with a point. The first goal was deflected in, bad luck. The second goal was offside, bad luck. Eberle missing a wide open cage that he usually would hit, bad luck. The OT goal shouldn't of happened the way it did if the refs had 20/20 vision and called the too many men penalty, bad luck. Games like tonight will happen.... and usually you don't get a point out of those ones.

For the people lighting up Dubey...sure I agree the OT goal was a little weak and probably even the second goal, but he easily had 5-6 spectacular saves that if any had gone in, no one would have faulted him. He played well at the end of the day and gave his team a chance to win. B+ performance for me.

Positives:
-Hemsky was lights out tonight. I've always believed he could return to form, which appears to be the case, and I truly hope he makes a lot of analysts, media, and HF armchair GMs eat crow. That whole line is clicking offensively and is fun to watch.

-Gagner keeps his streak alive and looks good on the PK which is great to see. Glad he's taken on that roll, it should help mould him defensively for 5v5 action.

-Yakupov.....dat release. Oh my. This kid is going to score a lot of goals. Needs to shoot more but I'm sure this comes with time. Been impressed with his passing too. Can't imagine he'll be able to sustain a shooting percentage that hovers around %30 though

-Hall is still in beast mode. Might be the only mode he has. He's had chances to put away games quite often...I have faith that he'll start cashing in on those.

-Shcultz is a beauty. Can't wait to see how his career unfolds. His calmness with the puck, smoothness, and ability to not panic is incredible for a 22 year old. Fun to watch.

-Hartikainen....I was never really sold on him, but this year he has been unreal. He protects the puck like a beast and those greasy goals that will be provided with that style of play is exactly what this team needs. Uses his big frame very well. I'm sold.

-Petrell....this kid impresses me more and more. A gem on the PK and showing signs offensive ability. Also uses his big frame very well. He deserves his spot on this team and IMO is a legit NHLer.

-Dubey played well tonight win or lose. He's made me believe that he can be starter in this league. My nerves from the San Jose melt down have vanished and based on his stellar play thus far, I can see him carrying us into the playoffs if the team in front of him can start scoring more goals.

All in all...I'm content with where we're at after 10 games played. This team is still young and will have it's ups and downs. Fans of this team should recognize that the ups should be more often than in the past as we move forward, but there will still be downs. Frustration is fine, but to question your loyalty to "your" team, as some have in this PGT, is ridiculous.

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02-07-2013, 04:41 AM
  #302
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Whitney's foot is basically done. Not going to get much for him on the trade market.

I feel bad for him, he's a better player than this.

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02-07-2013, 04:42 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Whitney's foot is basically done. Not going to get much for him on the trade market.

I feel bad for him, he's a better player than this.
Do you think we could at least get a pick for Whitney?

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02-07-2013, 05:17 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Do you think we could at least get a pick for Whitney?
I doubt anybody thinks we can. This is the worst possible season for Whitney to be playing like this, he's in danger of rotting in the minors next season if he doesn't change.

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02-07-2013, 05:32 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
Do you think we could at least get a pick for Whitney?
Just looking at the trades so far recently. We'd probably get a fourth for him.

Bottom pairing. Worst +/- on team. Press box. His issues are being spread all over. I'm sure other gms notice this.

Hell teams just dump and chase against him EVERY game. Even coaches know how bad he is these days

It sucks.

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02-07-2013, 07:34 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Justin Bieber View Post
can we make the playoffs if we keep getting loser points?
Florida won the SE on loser points last season.

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Old
02-07-2013, 07:39 AM
  #307
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Still see the problem is offense. 2 goals isn't going to win most games. 3 goals is.
The defense is getting over worked because the offense turns it over or never had the puck. I would bet our puck possession overall is way down.

Defense is survivable if the forwards had the puck more often and could score.
All forward lines except the 2nd are failing. Need more goals.

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02-07-2013, 07:47 AM
  #308
Philly85
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"Horcoff - Out
Jones - Out
Belanger - Out
Lander - Out
Eager - Out
Fistric - Out"

When these guys are identified as "key players" your team sucks.

Yeah they're dealin with injuries but we've seen this movie before, we know how it's going to end. Injuries roll in, boys play kind of hard and try not to make too many excuses, frustration mounts, a few hopeful games, fall back down to earth... It's games like this you realize just how far away the Oilers are from being able to call themselves a sure playoff team. Not a lot of depth on the back end. No centre depth and RNH has not been playing well this season anyways, could have shoulder surgery at the end of the season, and they are bar none the softest team in the league. It's sick how soft and fairly one dimensional they are - in the sense the top line cycles and the second like attacks off the rush. Lack of size and grit and decent veteran support players. Just a lot of things missing. Yes they are taking some strides and accumulating talent and its good to see they still battle but there's still a mountain to climb. Hate to come back to it but Tambellini is a horrible GM who does nothing to improve this team year after year after year.

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02-07-2013, 07:59 AM
  #309
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At least I won some VCash... woooooo!!

Say this every year, but this team just isn't good enough. Of course, being down 4 centers doesn't help matters.

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02-07-2013, 08:01 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Jepprey View Post
Just looking at the trades so far recently. We'd probably get a fourth for him.

Bottom pairing. Worst +/- on team. Press box. His issues are being spread all over. I'm sure other gms notice this.

Hell teams just dump and chase against him EVERY game. Even coaches know how bad he is these days

It sucks.
At least he's gone after this year... at least I hope so.

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02-07-2013, 08:03 AM
  #311
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I know a lot of you have been complaining about how our defense sucks over the past few years, but we seriously can't get any even strength goals. It really is pathetic. The defense is average (at best), but I really think the forwards need to do a better job at least getting a few shots on net before turning it over on the half wall. I feel they just cycle a lot and nothing comes of it. I remember one play where Harti was cycling by himself for like 30 seconds, while the other forwards were just standing around.

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02-07-2013, 08:04 AM
  #312
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Krueger is about as average as a head coach gets isn't he? Why did we oust Renney for this guy again? This is just same old.
I've been happy with Krueger as head coach so far. He's doing the best with what he has to work with.

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02-07-2013, 08:12 AM
  #313
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Not sure if there's another defense out there with as little offensive skill (other than Jesus Schultz obv).

As much as Gagner, Hemsky and often Yakupov have been great this year, especially with Hemsky it's on the strength of individual play.

Still don't see a reason why we can't mash up the top 2 lines.

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02-07-2013, 08:38 AM
  #314
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I don't know you ask anyone what they'd expect playing 10 forwards with one of those forwards being Arcobello who played 18 minutes and I bet most tell you you'd be lucky to be in the game come the 2nd period.

There is no point in ripping Kreuger or any of the players playing last night. The fact is we didn't have a very good lineup and guys were expected to play roles that they aren't use to.

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02-07-2013, 08:40 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
I don't know you ask anyone what they'd expect playing 10 forwards with one of those forwards being Arcobello who played 18 minutes and I bet most tell you you'd be lucky to be in the game come the 2nd period.

There is no point in ripping Kreuger or any of the players playing last night. The fact is we didn't have a very good lineup and guys were expected to play roles that they aren't use to.
They got a point in a game that, given the lineup, should have been a write off. Can't find much to knock in the overall effort.

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02-07-2013, 08:41 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Whitney's foot is basically done. Not going to get much for him on the trade market.

I feel bad for him, he's a better player than this.
The Oilers need to seek out and implement the NewAge Hockey System. Ralph is no better off than Renney was , in fact he is in deeper than Renney was. We are doing some great things this year, the team is very responsive, the missing link is the system itself, Ralph is trying to implement some NHS core values but is refusing to go all in and execute the entire system philosophy. Look at the shot numbers and the shooting % of our top six players, and find an explanation. Krueger has outright refused to move Hemmer to the 3rd line because this move would expose exactly what i am saying, now with the injuries things have changed yet again. I predicted Gagner and the 2nd line would challenge for the lead of this team, I requested Konopka be added before the season, the NewAge Hockey System is what I use to make my assesments and this shows me exactly where Ralph is straying.

We spent time learning that the fastbreak wouldnt work, then we wasted time trying to adjust it so it would work, then we abandoned the fastbreak and focused on the transition game, which we sucessfully implemented actually very sucessfully, then we spent some time trying to find the shot selection or tactics that would fit these sucessful transitions, then when we couldnt make things click we wasted two more games executing incredibly consistant zone transitions but using inadequate shooting tactics, this is because we do not utilise a tactical shooting program as per the NHS, Ralp has tried to take tactics and core value philosophys from the NewAge Hockey System and implement only the facets he wants, he has not been willing to go all in and validate the NHS.

Ryan Whitney is a prime example, either he needs to be used in a system role he can execute or we need to move him or keep him off the roster. If we had him working with the vets on a fastbreak line he would excell. Asking him to adjust himself into a more average player so he can assume more system orientated base plays has been a failure , as it was last year when we turfed the season for the same system awkwardness. Keep asking Gagner and Yakupov to dominate the middle lanes and netfront and we will lose them to injury as well. We are trying to force square pegs into round holes systemwise and its killing us on the ice.

We started the year trying to implement a fastbreak system, we failed, we went to an transition system finally and began to execute much better transitions and to dominate possesion of the puck BUT our coaches asked players to DUMP the puck into the o-zone even after they had gained the blueline, we lost 3 wins to this particular learning curve, then we figured out we shouldnt be dumping the puck in the hard way, we then went back to the excellent transitions and kept possesion instead of dumping and chasing. This should have worked but we refused to adjust our tactical shooting program to better suit our transitions, we were stuck on a fastbreak shooting program, I dont think we even have a specific tactical shooting program in place as per the NHS. So we found ourselves in the o-zone in a dominant fashion a few games ago but were taking the wrong shots, we were trying to execute a first shot and then second shot off the rebound tactic off of our excellent transitions but we were using the wrong shots for those transitions as we were finding ourselves in mid zone when we were pulling the trigger, we missed the boat from a coaching perspective and we did not adjust our shooting tactics to match our zone positions after those sucessful entrys. Now the issue is how much Krueger will panic and over-manage the mess we have. All we need to do is syncronise our possesion-transition game with better shot tactics.

We are on the cusp of breaking out but our men are crushed from a confidence perspective, their faith in the system is near non-existant and it is showing through the lineup. Ralph is a good coach and his interest in the NewAge Hockey System is evident in the things he is trying, however as with anything superior, you must throw your chips all in and commit to the philosophy not try to create your own hybrid system by taking just the good parts and tossing them together with the good parts of other systems.

We are in a very good position right now, we are maintaining possesion we are executing consistant and sucessfull zone entrys, we are only failing to properly initiate a tactical shooting program into those transitions, this is directly because the coaches are looking for results to come from the wrong areas, we need system continuity and arent getting it.

We have offensive players whose confidence has been rattled and we need to give them a pressure relief valve or we will damage them , we will scorch them. This failure to win points so far this year is system catalysed not player catalysed. This is the third year our organisation has had acess to NHS data and there is a refusal to embrace it fully , even as many other NHL teams are doing exactly that and earning results by doing so. I think there is a lack of integrity in the organisation and it is hurting us in exactly the areas we deserve to be struck down in. We are getting the BadMedicine we deserve, you cant take the good parts out of everything around you and ignore the core values that created the good things you are doing, and this is exactly what we are doing trying to create a patch-work system and compete at the NHL level with that mess.

We need to look at the 2nd line and analyse how and why they are able to execute sucessfull offense from within the system, we can already see that they are not doing exactly as Ralphs system is asking, that is obvious already, they are holding down the system defense ralph is asking for but they are NOT executing their offense as Ralphs system is asking them to do, they are incorporating core values from somewhere else, and that place happens to be the NewAge Hockey System. If we continue to be stubborn we will turf this year as well, we are on the cusp of that right now. Look at how MPS has evolved, look at how the Nordic line has evolved as a line, now simply take the players who are finding this elite sucess and find the common denominator, put your pride in your back pocket as a coaching staff and simply ask them how and where they acessed the data that they are utilising to better their performances on the ice and within the system.

We dont need to change much to really turn the corner here, we have some really good things going on but we arent seeing the results we deserve, we just need to initiate a tactical shooting program matched to the rest of our system. Our tactical evaluations of opponents is excellent our player responsiveness is excellent our transition game is excellent, its simply our tactical shooting decisions that are wanting right now. These are small adjustments, small intuative dynamic adjustments that will open the offensive floodgates for the team. If we overreact and start screwing with all of the structure we created already as we look for the answers in the wrong areas we WILL turf this season in the next ten games without a doubt.

Look at the shot numbers and shoting % discrepancy between the 1st and 2nd line, there is NO rational explanation for these stats. This is an easy fix being made difficult by the coaches insistance on staying with their program, this is what the first ten games were for, to ***** our new system and adjust it, we are out of time now, if we dont find the right adjustments within ten more games we can start fine tuning our golf clubs again. The stats show us this is a system issue not a player issue. So lets find a better system or simply use the complete system we are trying to scalp core value sucess from instead of wasting another season trying to validate someones pet project. I thought results mattered at the NHL level--we are NOT adjusting as per the results we are producing and this can only mean one thing , a lack of managerial flexibility. So lets fix it ASAP, find the NHS and implement the tactical shooting program it outlines, this will solve our goal scoring problems.

We are not a team of players that suits Ralphs thinking, we are a cadillac and Ralph is used to driving a VW. This might be a gamebreaker sooner than we all thought.


Last edited by BadMedicine*: 02-07-2013 at 09:23 AM.
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Old
02-07-2013, 08:41 AM
  #317
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I thought it was good game overall. Dubnyk played good, the pace was better in the 2nd onwards after a mildly slow start to the game. I like the fight this team has and how we are squeaking out points, hopefully the top line can get it going and everyone can maintain some level of compete and the wins should come. It's nice to lose some games but still get points, that should help later on once we get everyone going.

and ******* injuries.

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02-07-2013, 08:44 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Moose Coleman View Post
They got a point in a game that, given the lineup, should have been a write off. Can't find much to knock in the overall effort.
it's funny, you read the GDT before the game everyone is going "we will lose by 10, we will be lucky to be in in it after the first" then after the game in the PGT those same fans are on suicide watch and ledges all over Canada.

it's not rational. Some people really need to take a break from the game/team. After all, it's just a game.

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02-07-2013, 08:46 AM
  #319
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Originally Posted by BadMedicine View Post
The Oilers need to seek out and implement the NewAge Hockey System.
Trouble is marijuana is still illegal.

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02-07-2013, 08:47 AM
  #320
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It was nice to see Hall step up his faceoffs last night. I know there is a yjread sayin move him to center, but I don't think it's a good idea at this point. Maybe if we get deeper in the top 6 or 9.

Loved MPS and Harti's game. MPS looks like he's buying into the role they want out of him.

Big props to Gagner, the last centerman standing. Thought he was exceptional last night, especially on a couple of PK's.

I don't really have anything negative to say except Arcobello was invisible, possibly due to being either overmatched, his first game in the bigs, or a combination of the 2.

I've been staying away from mentioning Whiteny and Potter, because they get enough hate here without me chiming in....but after 10 games, it looks like Whiteny is in no man's land and Potter is making way too many mistakes.

How bout that Justin Schultz though!

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02-07-2013, 08:49 AM
  #321
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Not sure if there's another defense out there with as little offensive skill (other than Jesus Schultz obv).
This team clearly needed another option for the top four this year and they blew it. Management once again failed to address a clean need. It's been a consistent pattern throughout the Lowe/Tambellini years and the biggest reason why we need to see a change in management.

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02-07-2013, 08:57 AM
  #322
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Oilers lose another one and that is 10% of the season lost in a losing streak. The season is too short to sink so many games in a row.

Another game where the Oilers fail to register more than 2 goals (now 7 of 10). People are freaking out because this team is showing all the deficits that it has shown for 3 years prior.
haven't yet gotten past this post (#86) but I think that sums it up for me.

the team isn't show any improvement in regards to the deficits they have had for the past few years.
considering how that's all I've heard from talkingheads and Oiler fans on HF boards how awesome the Oiler forwards are and how they are going to light up the league, the offense has been putrid.
the defense play from forwards and the d-men has been weak and DD is playing solid but still giving up bad goals and not making the big save when needed. (that a true #1 should be doing)

and Whitney. We all know he looks to be done. he should never have been on the ice in OT. I don't care how much of a career AHL player Potter is. I'd rather see him on the ice instead of Whitney. (although tambo getting off his butt and doing something would be nice.)

Hey Tambo. the defense has issues and the Oilers have no centres. NOW is the time to do something, and not stick to your plan of doing nothing and calling it "letting the kids develop"

and I dislike anyone here who says they are fine with the oilers management letting the team tank again getting a lottery pick and saying this is only another "development" year. how many development years are you going to let the team have before you get disgusted?
it isn't. it's a year they have to actually have results. I don't call scoring 2 goals a game every game and hoping to get loser points a recipe for success.

to throw in a positive, I thought Hemsky played an excellent game, one of his best in a long time. and I was happy with Hall, especially as from what I saw, he was the only Oiler who could win a faceoff.

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02-07-2013, 09:04 AM
  #323
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i thought we played pretty good, all things considered.... when you're playing with essentially 1 center, not much should be expected

whitney really is terrible, not just on the jagr goal in OT, but all game long.... i don't know if i've ever seen a player fall from grace as fast as whitney has, it really is remarkable.... he's a *shadow* of his former self, it's too bad

the refereeing was unbelievably bad, almost as bad as it was in the LA game earlier in the year, but not quite.... 2 of the 3 dallas goals shouldn't have counted... the 1 was clearly offside, and then the OT one happened right after a clear missed call for too many men

its tough enough to win a game with this many injuries, but having to beat the refs on top of it doesn't help much... all in all i was fairly pleased to get the point

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02-07-2013, 09:08 AM
  #324
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These injuries are being way too over-exaggerated by a lot of posters.
When you're missing 3 of your 4 centers (most important position in hockey) you're not going to be winning many hockey games. I'll take the point based on that lineup.

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02-07-2013, 09:10 AM
  #325
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The problem is that its repeat offenders, I thought they played well considering who they had, but then whitney gets embarrassed and we lose, Its frustrating when the team hangs in there only to have either potter/whitney lose it for us
Won't argue that. I think most of us knew if this team was going to contend for a playoff spot Whitney and Hemsky needed to have very good years. Hemsky is off to a nice start but Whitney at this point isn't going to be getting a 7 figure NHL contract next year from anyone.

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