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Old
02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #376
Matt19Oilers
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While that may have been a poor goal to give up in OT, Dubnyk saved our ***** in the last few minutes of regulation to even get us 1 point. Also a very pathetic play by Whitney; Dubnyk should be able to count on Whitney to at least contest Jagr's shot.

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02-07-2013, 01:49 PM
  #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
yeah its pretty obvious that yakupov is a LOT more dangerous in the offensive zone on the RW... why he is still playing on the left side, while the veteran hemsky isn`t being asked to play out of position is beyond me.... i agree that yakupov has been exactly as advertised, a exceptionally skilled offensive player who has to learn the defensive side from square one... i must admit that he is producing a lot more than i thought he would (2 more posts last night) and is about as bad on defense as i thought he would be, lol... i had heard that he was a lot more physical than you would expect, and i am glad to see that this really is the case, and wasn`t just scout hype`

yakupov could be an exceptionally dangerous player as early as next year, and will most likely be the best pure goal scorer this team has had in 15+ years
It really isn't all that complicated. Both his linemates shoot right. Think about that and try and visualize. Now visualize them breaking into the offensive zone both with Yak on the left wing and the right. Now think about which formation would offer the best odds of young Mr. Yakopov receiving a good pass. As I said, not all that complicated, mysterious nor nefarious.

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02-07-2013, 01:52 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The Gagner line hasn't been effectively using the point, are a - line, and have been getting easier matchups, I guess you just can't look at Gagner objectively. Last year he was our best defensive center according to you because of his +/-. now this year it sucks but all is well in the world and he should be facing the Thornton's, Toews', Getzlaf's, etc. of the world. Yeah good luck with that, <40% on the dot and not big, fast, or crafty enough to defend those players at the level that it takes to not get torched. You probably think that Gagner is better defensively than RNH because in your eyes Gagner can do no wrong.
No, I attribute the - as largely being due to Whitney. To a lesser extent, Yak, and to a still lesser extent Hemsky and Gagner and in that order. All players make mistakes and some make a lot more.

For the amount of time Gagner has the puck and is ringleading breakouts and opposition zone gains he turns it over less than a lot of other players.

We'll never likely agree on this player, which is fine, but I do think for every Gagner mistake theres a multitude of posts on here. For other select players this not being the case.

In the end I like Gagner, the skillsets, heart, desire, and perseverance he brings. Kid has a good attitude and willing to improve.

Examples of this in current season is battle strength, more tenacity digging in the paint, and learning the pk role. This is growing his game, role, as a 23yr old, and is good for the club.

Still sucks at faceoffs though.


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02-07-2013, 02:00 PM
  #379
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Is there anyone who passes as hard as Yakupov does? Always knew he had a hard shot, but his passes are pretty freakin hard too.

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02-07-2013, 02:02 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Dabomb View Post
Is there anyone who passes as hard as Yakupov does? Always knew he had a hard shot, but his passes are pretty freakin hard too.
It's funny, that was commented on in the WJC and Super Series (or whatever it's called) and some astute people (not me, I was probably just muttered a few lines of gifs) said that would translate better in the NHL. In those tourneys though, no one was handling his passes.

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02-07-2013, 02:19 PM
  #381
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I noticed Yaks passes in Sarnia as well when I watched his Junior games... he plays with a lot of intensity while shooting, passing and skating. I think he's someone who just plays all out and his linemates have to expect some difficult passes as part of that intensity.

Sometimes that's going to lead to some brilliant quick tape to tape passes that leads to goals where the opposing dmen and goalies have no time to react.

Other times it will lead to broken plays where his teammates can't receive the pass and keep it under control well enough.

It will take time for both Yak and his teammates to develop that chemistry and timing to pull off more bang-bang type plays... but it will come in time. He has to play with very alert and sharp players to match that level of intensity and awareness that he has.

I really think RNH is a guy that would do well with him in time... with the chance that those two become almost Sedin-like with their passes and setups to each other and their other linemates.

It's all going to take time though and he's going to cause turnovers by the bushel until that timing and chemistry has a chance to fully develop between himself and those around him. I expect him to be a pretty severe minus player all season and will likely lead the team in goal scoring while doing it... that's just the type of player he is at this point and it isn't just that he's "bad" defensively, it's more that his intensity and full-on play leads to turnovers and giveaways.

You see that a lot in elite players... look at the top scorers in the NHL, very often they lead the league in giveaways for those very reasons.


Last edited by nexttothemoon: 02-07-2013 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
02-07-2013, 02:35 PM
  #382
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No, I attribute the - as largely being due to Whitney. To a lesser extent, Yak, and to a still lesser extent Hemsky and Gagner and in that order. All players make mistakes and some make a lot more.

For the amount of time Gagner has the puck and is ringleading breakouts and opposition zone gains he turns it over less than a lot of other players.

We'll never likely agree on this player, which is fine, but I do think for every Gagner mistake theres a multitude of posts on here. For other select players this not being the case.

In the end I like Gagner, the skillsets, heart, desire, and perseverance he brings. Kid has a good attitude and willing to improve.

Examples of this in current season is battle strength, more tenacity digging in the paint, and learning the pk role. This is growing his game, role, as a 23yr old, and is good for the club.

Still sucks at faceoffs though.
Love your post. Well written and anti confrontational.

But.

With Gagner I actualy think more people look the other way at his turn overs and poor defensive play. Especialy this year where he is playing so well offensively. His numbers have always been decent. But despite solid points as a #2 center enough people see his weakness in 2/3's of the rink.

The puck dies on his stick more often than most players. Probably only a little more than say Hall, but the difference is that Hall typicaly loses the puck in the offensive zone as opposed to Gagner who loses it in the defensive or neutral zone which leads to scoring chances. Like last nights turn overs it is almost like he has no perifirial vision and opposing players just skate up to him and strip him of the puck.

Having said all that. Gagner has been improving. Very slowly but very surely. Last year his defensive play got a bit better and this year his offensive play is a bit better. When he hits his peak at 25-28 with the way he is trending he will be considered a good #2 center.

It would be very nice if we can get some size down the middle tho. Even a great number 3 guy behind Gagner who could sub out Gagner every once in a while on the 2nd when he is slumping or in a tight game with a lead.

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02-07-2013, 02:43 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
Eberle has magic eyes.
Not last night when he missed an open net that I could've hit. And I haven't picked up a hockey stick for 20 years.

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02-07-2013, 02:48 PM
  #384
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not last night when he missed an open net that i could've hit. And i haven't picked up a hockey stick for 20 years.
I said HE HAS MAGIC EYES.

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02-07-2013, 03:00 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
It's funny, that was commented on in the WJC and Super Series (or whatever it's called) and some astute people (not me, I was probably just muttered a few lines of gifs) said that would translate better in the NHL. In those tourneys though, no one was handling his passes.
The worst thing is some of the guys on the Oilers don't seem to be used to it either. His passes are eating his own players up as well.

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02-07-2013, 03:06 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
GM's aren't so shortsighted as to look at a 10 game sample.

Reasons someone will take him if Tambellini puts him on the block:
-450 NHL games
-Proven offensive producer
-Is only 29 years old
-Usually takes time to return to form after an injury
-Expiring contract
-Can play on the powerplay

I'm not expecting the moon for the guy, like I said I'm setting the over/under at a 3rd round draft pick. I know he's been terrible this year but there are worse options in this league for a depth defenseman than Ryan Whitney believe it or not. Especially hilarious are the people that think we can get something for Omark but nothing for Whitney.
I am not one of those that think Omark is worth anything. NOthing proven at the NHL so I doubt we can get anything for him either.

It is not only 10 games this year... ALL last year he was every bit as bad if not worse. Towards the end he looked like he was improving but was still terrible.

He also has been very poor on the power play. Has a lot of trouble keeping the line and getting into passing and shooting lanes. His three second assists had little to do with his being there.

Its been a long time since his injury but it still could turn around for him. And the lockout might have hurt his hockey rehab. I do not think that is enough to get any draft pick for him.

For the person saying we got a 3rd for Staios. People forgot how good Staios was, and when we traded him he was healthy.

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02-07-2013, 03:07 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by President Van Buren View Post
People make (unwarranted) attacks on Jones, but you know what he does? He scores. Not a ton. But he gets it in.
jones just grinds day in and day out and busts his butt.
and you're right. he gets to the net, gets the puck in the net, and earns every goal.
he's the type of player the oilers need more of. the top lines get way too pretty and sometimes should be more like Jones.

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02-07-2013, 03:15 PM
  #388
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jones just grinds day in and day out and busts his butt.
and you're right. he gets to the net, gets the puck in the net, and earns every goal.
he's the type of player the oilers need more of. the top lines get way too pretty and sometimes should be more like Jones.
Yep. He just always seems to find a way to bury the puck. Just a few of the people he outscored last year include

Henrique
Briere
Kostitsyn
Henrik Sedin
Duchene
Couturier
Mikko Koivu
Turris
Getzlaf

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02-07-2013, 03:33 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessy View Post
GM's aren't so shortsighted as to look at a 10 game sample.

Reasons someone will take him if Tambellini puts him on the block:
-450 NHL games
-Proven offensive producer
-Is only 29 years old
-Usually takes time to return to form after an injury
-Expiring contract
-Can play on the powerplay

I'm not expecting the moon for the guy, like I said I'm setting the over/under at a 3rd round draft pick. I know he's been terrible this year but there are worse options in this league for a depth defenseman than Ryan Whitney believe it or not. Especially hilarious are the people that think we can get something for Omark but nothing for Whitney.

How's he done the last 3 years then?

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02-07-2013, 03:34 PM
  #390
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Bottom line: Right now Whitney does more to help you lose games than win games. Don't know which GM is going to trade for that.

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02-07-2013, 03:48 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by The Great Ones View Post
Bottom line: Right now Whitney does more to help you lose games than win games. Don't know which GM is going to trade for that.
one that's desperate to not have crappy career AHLers in the lineup

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02-07-2013, 03:55 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
The Gagner line hasn't been effectively using the point, are a - line, and have been getting easier matchups, I guess you just can't look at Gagner objectively. Last year he was our best defensive center according to you because of his +/-. now this year it sucks but all is well in the world and he should be facing the Thornton's, Toews', Getzlaf's, etc. of the world. Yeah good luck with that, <40% on the dot and not big, fast, or crafty enough to defend those players at the level that it takes to not get torched. You probably think that Gagner is better defensively than RNH because in your eyes Gagner can do no wrong.
No credit where credit is due.

Gagner's defensive play on the second line this season has been nothing short of solid. Hard to attribute -'s to a player (or line) when defensive miscues by Whitney and Potter have attributed to at least 3 GA's.

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02-07-2013, 04:06 PM
  #393
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Gotta love this Gregor quote to start the show "Whitney didn't play bad last night"
Are you serious? Whitney played like garbage. I'll take 2 garbage cans on the ice last night instead of Whitney

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02-07-2013, 04:09 PM
  #394
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I'm very interested in seeing Jones and Teemu on the same line together. Probably bring alot of energy and both gather those garbage goals.

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02-07-2013, 04:15 PM
  #395
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one that's desperate to not have crappy career AHLers in the lineup
I don't think the Oilers can trade with themselves.

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02-07-2013, 04:19 PM
  #396
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I'm very interested in seeing Jones and Teemu on the same line together. Probably bring alot of energy and both gather those garbage goals.
With Smyth centering?

The Garbage Goal line?

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02-07-2013, 04:19 PM
  #397
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I'm very interested in seeing Jones and Teemu on the same line together. Probably bring alot of energy and both gather those garbage goals.
That would be a great gritty line, but who do we put in the middle now?

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02-07-2013, 04:32 PM
  #398
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With Smyth centering?

The Garbage Goal line?
We'd need Petry and J. Schultz out there then because we'd have 3 guys crashing the net as soon as we enter the zone, and nobody elsewhere

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02-07-2013, 04:34 PM
  #399
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one that's desperate to not have crappy career AHLers in the lineup
How are we going to trade for our own player?

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02-07-2013, 04:36 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
No, I attribute the - as largely being due to Whitney. To a lesser extent, Yak, and to a still lesser extent Hemsky and Gagner and in that order. All players make mistakes and some make a lot more.

For the amount of time Gagner has the puck and is ringleading breakouts and opposition zone gains he turns it over less than a lot of other players.

We'll never likely agree on this player, which is fine, but I do think for every Gagner mistake theres a multitude of posts on here. For other select players this not being the case.

In the end I like Gagner, the skillsets, heart, desire, and perseverance he brings. Kid has a good attitude and willing to improve.

Examples of this in current season is battle strength, more tenacity digging in the paint, and learning the pk role. This is growing his game, role, as a 23yr old, and is good for the club.

Still sucks at faceoffs though.
Gagner's offensive game is in high gear, it really is and has been for say 7/10 games this season. I take no offense to his offensive contributions they have been solid. I agree that he has been stronger for the most part which is another good thing in his favor. However I still worry about his faceoff ability, this isn't a 2nd or 3rd year pro that we're talking about and maybe it'd be a good idea to see where he stacks up against centers his age and younger in this regard to see if he just sucks at it or if it's somewhat normal for guys his age? I still think that he is very overrated defensively this is likely the biggest area that we will disagree on, that and his brain farts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Love your post. Well written and anti confrontational.

But.

With Gagner I actualy think more people look the other way at his turn overs and poor defensive play. Especialy this year where he is playing so well offensively. His numbers have always been decent. But despite solid points as a #2 center enough people see his weakness in 2/3's of the rink.

The puck dies on his stick more often than most players. Probably only a little more than say Hall, but the difference is that Hall typicaly loses the puck in the offensive zone as opposed to Gagner who loses it in the defensive or neutral zone which leads to scoring chances. Like last nights turn overs it is almost like he has no perifirial vision and opposing players just skate up to him and strip him of the puck.

Having said all that. Gagner has been improving. Very slowly but very surely. Last year his defensive play got a bit better and this year his offensive play is a bit better. When he hits his peak at 25-28 with the way he is trending he will be considered a good #2 center.

It would be very nice if we can get some size down the middle tho. Even a great number 3 guy behind Gagner who could sub out Gagner every once in a while on the 2nd when he is slumping or in a tight game with a lead.
Good post, if we could get a big and solid 2 way center to play behind RNH and Gagner it might be able to work especially if we have home ice advantage and can match Gagner up against softer competition while RNH or our 3C handles the toughest assignments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWoof View Post
No credit where credit is due.

Gagner's defensive play on the second line this season has been nothing short of solid. Hard to attribute -'s to a player (or line) when defensive miscues by Whitney and Potter have attributed to at least 3 GA's.
Sorry but I completely disagree, his solid play starts and ends in the offensive zone.

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