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Size and skill prevalent in Edmonton Oilers’ junior prospect pool

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:15 PM
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Size and skill prevalent in Edmonton Oilers’ junior prospect pool


The Edmonton Oilers boast a number of highly skilled forwards on their front end that are generally touted as pure goal-scorers, and their young roster makes for a team with a high level of energy and emotion. However, they tend to lack depth at their center position and do not always have the size and strength that is needed when they come up against big physical teams. The Oilers scouting team has worked tirelessly to build up a strong group of character prospects to fill some of the gaps on the roster, many of whom are playing for junior clubs across Canada.… read more



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02-08-2013, 05:31 PM
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The Edmonton Oilers boast a number of highly skilled forwards on their front end that are generally touted as pure goal-scorers, and their young roster makes for a team with a high level of energy and emotion. However, they tend to lack depth at their center position and do not always have the size and strength that is needed when they come up against big physical teams. The Oilers scouting team has worked tirelessly to build up a strong group of character prospects to fill some of the gaps on the roster, many of whom are playing for junior clubs across Canada.… read more



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Nice spin, but Oilers dropped the ball drafting mediocre talents with their 2nd round picks the past few years: bottom-6ers like Pitlick and Moroz.

I see 2 guys having what it takes to make it to the NHL in their CHL prospects:

Zharkov because he puts up points, is big, and is also defensively responsible (reportedly). I see him turning into a solid 3rd/4th liner. And Musil as a bottom-pairing d-man.

And that's my view as fairly high expectations. I don't actually think Musil will make the NHL permanently, and the verdict on Zharkov is still out.

Not looking good to me.

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02-08-2013, 05:41 PM
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I think they should have convinced Bigos into turning into a forward. I think he's got a better chance in the NHL as a huge ass fourth liner that comes in and crushes some people from time to time, then someone who will probably never make it beyond our AHL's bottom pairing.

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02-08-2013, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Nice spin, but Oilers dropped the ball drafting mediocre talents with their 2nd round picks the past few years: bottom-6ers like Pitlick and Moroz.

I see 2 guys having what it takes to make it to the NHL in their CHL prospects:

Zharkov because he puts up points, is big, and is also defensively responsible (reportedly). I see him turning into a solid 3rd/4th liner. And Musil as a bottom-pairing d-man.

And that's my view as fairly high expectations. I don't actually think Musil will make the NHL permanently, and the verdict on Zharkov is still out.

Not looking good to me.
Already judging the 2010 and 2012 drafts? Way too soon...

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02-08-2013, 06:15 PM
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Nice spin, but Oilers dropped the ball drafting mediocre talents with their 2nd round picks the past few years: bottom-6ers like Pitlick and Moroz.

I see 2 guys having what it takes to make it to the NHL in their CHL prospects:

Zharkov because he puts up points, is big, and is also defensively responsible (reportedly). I see him turning into a solid 3rd/4th liner. And Musil as a bottom-pairing d-man.

And that's my view as fairly high expectations. I don't actually think Musil will make the NHL permanently, and the verdict on Zharkov is still out.

Not looking good to me.
Rieder puts up far more points than Zharkov and is just as defensively responsible. He's also a better skater. What is he missing that would write him off? Size? He's not that small and he competes hard in all the tough areas.

Pitlick still has a decent shot to be an NHL'er but it will be as a bottom 6 winger. Moroz is a long way from being a write off. Same as Ewanyk. The article also leaves out Khaira since he is in the NCAA. He is also big and talented.


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02-08-2013, 06:29 PM
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Already judging the 2010 and 2012 drafts? Way too soon...
To say that you shouldn't take guys who weren't big scorers/big minutes defenders/top goalies in juniors or college in the top 60? I don't think it's ever too soon to say that.

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02-08-2013, 06:34 PM
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Rieder puts up far more points than Zharkov and is just as defensively responsible. He's also a better skater. What is he missing that would write him off? Size? He's not that small and he competes hard in all the tough areas.

Pitlick still has a decent shot to be an NHL'er but it will be as a bottom 6 winger. Moroz is a long way from being a write off. Same as Ewanyk. The article also leaves out Khaira since he is in the NCAA. He is also big and talented.
I'm just talking their CHL guys, but ya I did mention Pitlick.

As I said at the time, and it continues to be true today, the top two rounds shouldn't be used for guys who're most likely gonna be bottom-6ers or bottom pairing d-men.

Musil was an okay risk because he was so defensively responsible that you hoped he'd be able to at least rise to a Smid-like level in development. Hope he can, but injuries are always a concern in development.

But Pitlick wasn't a big producer for most of his amateur career, and Moroz definitely wasn't worthy of being a high 2nd rounder. They may turn out, actually I think Pitlick will have something of an NHL career in the 4th line role. But you hope for more from borderline 1st round picks.

I'm not writing off Reider, but he looks to be following the Liam Reddox development model-- great post-draft season and then...what happened? Not a positive sign, at the very least. And not a lot of smaller bottom-6 forwards in the league.

Zharkov's just a bigger banger, and if he can figure out the skating and consistent scoring, he could develop into a nice Hartikainen-type, I think.

Not writing anybody off-- I just don't see a lot of NHL hope/talent in the CHL group. They're all relative longshots to being impact players.

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02-08-2013, 06:37 PM
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Reider has caught fire as of late, back up to PPG. From what I've heard, he's also a hell of a PK guy. I personally think he's got a way better chance of making it than Zharkov.

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02-08-2013, 06:41 PM
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Nice spin, but Oilers dropped the ball drafting mediocre talents with their 2nd round picks the past few years: bottom-6ers like Pitlick and Moroz.
IMO Pitlick has 1st round skill (barely shown this season) and 4th round hockey IQ. Bad pick? Not at all.

Moroz definitely was a reach.

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02-08-2013, 06:49 PM
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I'm just talking their CHL guys, but ya I did mention Pitlick.

As I said at the time, and it continues to be true today, the top two rounds shouldn't be used for guys who're most likely gonna be bottom-6ers or bottom pairing d-men.

Musil was an okay risk because he was so defensively responsible that you hoped he'd be able to at least rise to a Smid-like level in development. Hope he can, but injuries are always a concern in development.

But Pitlick wasn't a big producer for most of his amateur career, and Moroz definitely wasn't worthy of being a high 2nd rounder. They may turn out, actually I think Pitlick will have something of an NHL career in the 4th line role. But you hope for more from borderline 1st round picks.

I'm not writing off Reider, but he looks to be following the Liam Reddox development model-- great post-draft season and then...what happened? Not a positive sign, at the very least. And not a lot of smaller bottom-6 forwards in the league.

Zharkov's just a bigger banger, and if he can figure out the skating and consistent scoring, he could develop into a nice Hartikainen-type, I think.

Not writing anybody off-- I just don't see a lot of NHL hope/talent in the CHL group. They're all relative longshots to being impact players.
Rieder has been terrific this year. There is a lot more to his game than points. He has played much of the year with the Rangers versions of Belanger and Eager. The whole Ranger team is much more defensively oriented than it was the last two years.

Now that Rieder is playing with Leivo and has moved to center he has put up points at a similar clip to last year. He has 11 goals in his last ten games and has goals in 9 of those games. The guy is also a very good defensive forward. He is 5'11' and about 190lbs.

Zharkov is not really a banger at all. In fact he is no more overtly physical than Rieder. Bith finish their checks but niether is a bigg hitter.

That said all prospects picked out of the second round are longshots to be NHL'ers. Once you are in the 2nd you are looking at aboit 1 in 6 or worse to ever play in the NHl for mor ethan a cup of coffee.

I actually agree that Pitlick has a good chance to be a regular NHL'er. And while you might hope for more the fact is that even for a high second that is actually a preety good outcome.

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02-08-2013, 07:39 PM
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HF Article is going to get ripped for this write up lol.

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02-08-2013, 08:04 PM
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When u have 3 small 1st overall forwards and Ebs and Gagner from past drafts you can take some chances to fill out the rest of the roster with size.....the odds of a 2nd rounder even making the NHL is small.....the odds of a 2nd rder being able to take a top 6 on this team soon is next to impossible...

If we can get size and ability from the new coke machines like
Jujhar Khaira F 6'3" 195
Ryan Martindale. F 6'3" 190
Mitch Moroz F 6'2" 210
Daniil Zharkov F 6'4" 210
Curtis Hamilton. F 6'3" 205
Teemu Hartikainen F 6'1" 215***
Tyler Pitlick F 6'2" 195

If we can get 1 top 6 forward and a couple bottom 6 guys from this list we very lucky

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02-08-2013, 08:45 PM
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When u have 3 small 1st overall forwards and Ebs and Gagner from past drafts you can take some chances to fill out the rest of the roster with size.....the odds of a 2nd rounder even making the NHL is small.....the odds of a 2nd rder being able to take a top 6 on this team soon is next to impossible...
If we can get size and ability from the new coke machines like
Jujhar Khaira F 6'3" 195
Ryan Martindale. F 6'3" 190
Mitch Moroz F 6'2" 210
Daniil Zharkov F 6'4" 210
Curtis Hamilton. F 6'3" 205
Teemu Hartikainen F 6'1" 215***
Tyler Pitlick F 6'2" 195

If we can get 1 top 6 forward and a couple bottom 6 guys from this list we very lucky
Well said. It does worry me that the team took the mentality of "well we got to choose the best player in the draft so it is ok to risk on the other picks" but I do believe in drafting talent based on sound research. If after the cobine, and all the testing and years of observation the kids still impress than yeah...put in your bets. So far i have seen some sense in what Stu and the Oilers are doing. I look at the Bruins, and not Detroit, in how they are building their team. Do we have a Marchand coming? Do we have a Lucic? Do we have anyone close to those moulds?
I am pretty happy with our drafting and will to wait until tie shows us if we have improved in at scouting beyond the obvious picks of BPA when you get #1.

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02-08-2013, 08:49 PM
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IMO Pitlick has 1st round skill (barely shown this season) and 4th round hockey IQ. Bad pick? Not at all.

Moroz definitely was a reach.
Agreed about Pitlick. He has all the tools (good skater, physical, phenomenal shot) but he can't seem to put it all together

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02-08-2013, 08:57 PM
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Hartikainen has already beaten the odds from where he was drafted even if he doesn't develop any more.

I think he's enough of an asset at this stage that even if he didn't work out with the Oilers... you could still trade him away for a decent pick or a swap of prospects with some other team out there.

Some of the other picks in OKC at this point... not looking as bright for them.

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02-08-2013, 09:04 PM
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When u have 3 small 1st overall forwards and Ebs and Gagner from past drafts you can take some chances to fill out the rest of the roster with size.....the odds of a 2nd rounder even making the NHL is small.....the odds of a 2nd rder being able to take a top 6 on this team soon is next to impossible...

If we can get size and ability from the new coke machines like
Jujhar Khaira F 6'3" 195
Ryan Martindale. F 6'3" 190
Mitch Moroz F 6'2" 210
Daniil Zharkov F 6'4" 210
Curtis Hamilton. F 6'3" 205
Teemu Hartikainen F 6'1" 215***
Tyler Pitlick F 6'2" 195

If we can get 1 top 6 forward and a couple bottom 6 guys from this list we very lucky
I'd rather take the BPA, pump his tires, and trade him a la Vancouver with Hodgson and Kassian, personally.

The only guy in that list I see even being a full-time NHLer is Hartikainen. But that's far from guaranteed as of right now. He's looked good, but has to keep improving. The rest? Yeah Pitlick might have a Brad Winchester-like career (in my opinion). Zharkov too, from what I've seen and heard. Malleable player who could be useful on a 3rd or 4th line in a mucking role.

Martindale? Inconsistent at every level. Best case scenario, he has a couple of good years like Isbister, if he gets that far.
Moroz doesn't even produce much at the WHL level-- can't see him producing enough to stay in an NHL lineup, even on the 4th line (he'd need roughly 15-20 pts/year to justify a spot regularly, and he's really only a .5 PPG player in the dub).
Hamilton's fallen off the face of the earth, has had injury problems (which often derail big boys...or any prospect, for that matter), and really only ever had one very good year.

That's my full take on it all, anyway. Always hope for the best, obviously, but there are clear issues with almost everybody on this list.

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02-08-2013, 09:11 PM
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Musil and Rieder appear to be keepers.

I'm not 100% on Gernat, but I think he'll get to the NHL.

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02-08-2013, 09:42 PM
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I'd rather take the BPA, pump his tires, and trade him a la Vancouver with Hodgson and Kassian, personally.

The only guy in that list I see even being a full-time NHLer is Hartikainen. But that's far from guaranteed as of right now. He's looked good, but has to keep improving. The rest? Yeah Pitlick might have a Brad Winchester-like career (in my opinion). Zharkov too, from what I've seen and heard. Malleable player who could be useful on a 3rd or 4th line in a mucking role.

Martindale? Inconsistent at every level. Best case scenario, he has a couple of good years like Isbister, if he gets that far.
Moroz doesn't even produce much at the WHL level-- can't see him producing enough to stay in an NHL lineup, even on the 4th line (he'd need roughly 15-20 pts/year to justify a spot regularly, and he's really only a .5 PPG player in the dub).
Hamilton's fallen off the face of the earth, has had injury problems (which often derail big boys...or any prospect, for that matter), and really only ever had one very good year.

That's my full take on it all, anyway. Always hope for the best, obviously, but there are clear issues with almost everybody on this list.
Most bigger players that are picked after the 1st rd have some issues...consistency...hands....wheels.....if not they would be 1st rders??

Even in your example...it was a 10th oa Hodgson for 13 th oa Kassian.......the likelihood of another smaller forward even getting a sniff of the top six in Edmonton anytime soon in an attempt to pump and dump is extremely unlikely.......but it clearly looks like the Oilers are hoping/gambling to find players with size after the 1st rd...

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02-08-2013, 09:52 PM
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I'm not writing off Reider, but he looks to be following the Liam Reddox development model-- great post-draft season and then...what happened? Not a positive sign, at the very least. And not a lot of smaller bottom-6 forwards in the league.
This is a bit negative.Rieder had a slow start but lately he looks like the player from last year.
He has now 22 goals in 41 games.In the last 11 games he had 12 goal and 5 assists.
Reddox in his past draft season had 19 goals in 68 games.

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02-09-2013, 06:54 AM
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I'd rather take the BPA, pump his tires, and trade him a la Vancouver with Hodgson and Kassian, personally.

The only guy in that list I see even being a full-time NHLer is Hartikainen. But that's far from guaranteed as of right now. He's looked good, but has to keep improving. The rest? Yeah Pitlick might have a Brad Winchester-like career (in my opinion). Zharkov too, from what I've seen and heard. Malleable player who could be useful on a 3rd or 4th line in a mucking role.

Martindale? Inconsistent at every level. Best case scenario, he has a couple of good years like Isbister, if he gets that far.
Moroz doesn't even produce much at the WHL level-- can't see him producing enough to stay in an NHL lineup, even on the 4th line (he'd need roughly 15-20 pts/year to justify a spot regularly, and he's really only a .5 PPG player in the dub).
Hamilton's fallen off the face of the earth, has had injury problems (which often derail big boys...or any prospect, for that matter), and really only ever had one very good year.

That's my full take on it all, anyway. Always hope for the best, obviously, but there are clear issues with almost everybody on this list.
I don't know how much you have watched Martindale play. I watched a lot of his games in Ottawa particularly in his final year. He was not the least bit inconsistent in that year. Not only did he produce offensivley but he really worked hard to refine hi two-way game. He was a key pk'er for the 67's and was always the guy out there taking big draws when protecting a lead in the last couple of minutes of a game.

In OKC right now he is playing with Hamilton and Byers. That line was very good last night. They controlled the play against one of the best teams in the AHL. Martindale did score a nice gaol after working his way to the front of the net. But over all I'd say that he is transitioning into a very good two way center at the AHL level. That's not too bad for a guy who is a second year pro.

He does not skate nearly as well as Pitlick, nor is he a big hitter. But he has excellent hockey sense and a broad skill set. I think the struggle for him has been finding the type of player he needs to be at the next level. But this seems to be more clear now and he is making progress. He still has a chance to be a good NHL'er.

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02-09-2013, 09:21 AM
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When u have 3 small 1st overall forwards and Ebs and Gagner from past drafts you can take some chances to fill out the rest of the roster with size.....the odds of a 2nd rounder even making the NHL is small.....the odds of a 2nd rder being able to take a top 6 on this team soon is next to impossible...

If we can get size and ability from the new coke machines like
Jujhar Khaira F 6'3" 195
Ryan Martindale. F 6'3" 190
Mitch Moroz F 6'2" 210
Daniil Zharkov F 6'4" 210
Curtis Hamilton. F 6'3" 205
Teemu Hartikainen F 6'1" 215***
Tyler Pitlick F 6'2" 195

If we can get 1 top 6 forward and a couple bottom 6 guys from this list we very lucky
Or you can draft a highly rated d-man (instead of taking a flier) like Matt Finn, who slipped from mid-1st round to your early 2nd round pick, and use him to fill out the depth on the blue line. Which is also lacking in depth ....

Last summer and today, Matt Finn >>> Moroz, and only one of these two will play in the NHL.

In drafts gone by, we've taken 1st or early 2nd round fliers on guys like MAP, Nash, Plante ... funny, but it never turns out. I am just guessing, but central scouting is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> oiler scouting.

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02-09-2013, 09:53 AM
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You can't complain about the Tyler Pitlick selection and then complain about Moroz using the same reasoning. Pitlick was exactly the Matt Finn of forwards.
Mid to late round first round projected player who lasted till the 2nd round. Grouping his selection with one that was an obvious reach in Mitch Moroz is silly.

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02-09-2013, 10:07 AM
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It is usually a pretty safe bet to say 'it's just too early to make a judgment call' with big, talented forwards. They're the most enigmatic of all the player types as far as their development path goes.

Moroz I'm not so keen on, because I'm not sure if he's actually talented or just big. But guys like Pitlick, Martindale, Khaira and Hamilton? You hold on to them until they're actually burning a roster spot someone else needs and just wait and watch. Why the hell not? They're not hurting anyone and among them there might be a Penner, Knuble, Clarkson, Clowe, or any other late bloomer you can think of. Those are all valuable pieces that could fit on any line.

edit to say: I wouldn't lump Harski in with this player type, he's more of a smaller but wider grinder/checker type (in the Deadmarsh/Fedotenko mold... I hope!)

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02-09-2013, 10:57 AM
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Pitlick and Hamilton are looking like busts at this point (Hamilton more than Pitlick as Pitlick is injured)

Bunz has been brutal this year as well

although Martindale looked DOA last year and is now establishing himself in the AHL

that 2010 draft class had so much potential...now it's down to Hall and Marincin (I like Davidson but AHL player IMO...Martindale has a slight chance but a long ways away...Pelss is too small)

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02-09-2013, 07:28 PM
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Pitlick and Hamilton are looking like busts at this point (Hamilton more than Pitlick as Pitlick is injured)

Bunz has been brutal this year as well

although Martindale looked DOA last year and is now establishing himself in the AHL

that 2010 draft class had so much potential...now it's down to Hall and Marincin (I like Davidson but AHL player IMO...Martindale has a slight chance but a long ways away...Pelss is too small)
At what point do we really get concerned with player development more then drafting......it is one thing to draft a talented player....and another to turn that player from a junior player to a NHLer

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