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Game #10: St. Louis Blues vs. Detroit Redwings

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Old
02-08-2013, 12:00 AM
  #351
ExJbeck
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I'm not seeing selfish in the sense that players are trying to stack the score sheet. I'm seeing selfish player not wanting the best for team, not giving it there all. IMO, Hitch is calling out the entire team. No individual is responsible for the piss poor play.

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02-08-2013, 12:04 AM
  #352
MattyMo35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmitchell19 View Post
"Cheating the game." "Selfish hockey."

Who is Hitch calling out, and what specific instances in recent games would anyone offer to support his claim?

I can see Perron holding the puck too long in several cases...Stewart making some brain-dead plays with the puck and jumping offside far too often...Petro perhaps pushing the offense more than he should.

Other than that...what??? How do you diagnose the last seven periods of futility?
I would add guys trying to force the play in the offensive zone, mostly to Tarasenko. Everyone that watches the Blues play understands that Tarasenko is an excellent player, and a kid that possesses a fantastic shot. He is not, however, a super hero that can shed 3 guys, and snipe a shot in one motion. If he's covered, simply do not pass it to him. I've seen the play forced to him countless times.

EDIT: I guess that wouldn't really be "selfish hockey", quite the opposite actually lol. Still, it's an area that needs to be addressed.

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02-08-2013, 12:13 AM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyIdeas View Post
Steen backes oshie
perron bergie frank
amac sobotka stewart
porter nichol reaves

Cole pie
jax shatty
redden polak

Send schwartz down, sit russell, evaluate new performances. I'm not sure if it was going back to LW at the end or the collision with backes, but steen needs to be disrupting defenders with his forechecking. 2nd/3rd lines can be jumbled, but I wanna see something like this.
My thoughts as well. Steen-Backes-Oshie looked great for the 1 time they were on the ice together and created a lot of offensive pressure, looked just like last year. Second line looked great too for the one time they were on the ice together, Perron was able to do what he does and work magic in the zone, Tarasenko got wide open in the slot and Perron had an open passing lane but not sure why he didn't pass, but my point is that Perron can create space for Tarasenko to get open while Berglund puts a big body in front of the net.

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02-08-2013, 12:20 AM
  #354
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Amazing what Steen not playing center will do. I agree with these lines for a while.

Tonight there were several players that had no intention of even winning puck battles (AMac, Stewart, Schwartz) and the ones that brought the most effort and won puck battles (Perron, Oshie) didn't take the puck to the net with enough regularity. Listening to Hitchcock's press conference really highlighted that the team seems to content to keep cycling the puck without someone actually fully attacking the net with the puck.

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02-08-2013, 12:43 AM
  #355
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from the main nhl board

Quote:
The effectiveness of the system is heading downhill (see St.louis east (NYR, not East St.louis))
Tonight they definitely looked like the East St. Louis Blues.



(*EDIT*: I disagree with the original poster's sentiment; system is good but individual rigor has been absent)


Last edited by 417blues: 02-08-2013 at 12:45 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old
02-08-2013, 02:23 AM
  #356
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Just finished watching the game, had it recorded tonight as I was busy with other things. Without reading much of the GDT, here's some of my thoughts.

1) The Blues were really playing hard for the first 30 minutes, but you could just feel the energy the team was building die every time Elliott let in a softie... and boy did he let in more than a few. He's not even half the goalie he was last year. After a poor performance at the beginning of the season, I was saying be patient with Elliott. Over at the asylum, I was talking about how Elliott wasn't as bad as the numbers say.

Well, I pretty much take that back. He sucks right now.

2) We got out hustled. A lot of foot races ended in the loss column tonight, not surprisingly, the game itself did too.

3) Remember how we were winning games with the same lines? Why'd we go and change that? Put McDonald-Steen-Tarasenko back together, that was one of the best lines in hockey for a few days.

4) **** Franzen. I keep hearing how detroit is such a classy organization, but they employee Bertuzzi and Tootoo, and have guys like Franzen run around and pull that ****. And I thought Perron's hit was legal, honestly.

5) It didn't matter, but Detroit still got a lot of breaks from the officials tonight. The Blues lose regardless, but after the last week's worth of shenanigans, I've doubled the magnification of the microscope I usually put on them.

6) Detroit was just the better team tonight. They were closing their gaps with ease, and nailing their assignments. And they had the book on Elliott for a few of those goals: throw it on net, let Elliott cough up a rebound OR make a play to get him to one side of the net. His lateral movement coming off the post is very slow.

7) Backes needs to keep his cool. Seeing your Captain come unglued at bad calls can have two effects: it can unite your team, or it can shake your team. Seems like lately it's been shaking the team. Same, on a lesser degree, with Steen.

8) All of our defenseman not named Pietrangelo need to run shooting drills. My god, it's one thing to fire a shot and the goalie kills it. it's another to miss the net entirely... and it not be on purpose. Too much of that.

9) Pietrangelo looks bad lately, but really, the whole team does, so it's hard to figure out exactly why he looks bad.

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02-08-2013, 04:59 AM
  #357
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Our defense just looked slow to me. I'm thinking Cole may need to give someone a break. I am a huge Jackman fan, but he just played really slow last night. Maybe he needs a breather.

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02-08-2013, 05:00 AM
  #358
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I have not seen the game either, recorded it since I work the nightshift for the Department of Veteran Affairs in midtown. The Blues win as a Team and the last 2 games lose as a team, Of course there is no I in team. And where is the Defense? has anyone seen them?

Now to the last line of defense, Elliott has reverted back to his play of 2 years ago with Ottowa/Colorado, is Elliott now the Whipping boy of the Blues? Funny thing is Halak hasn't been much better. So if our goaltending doesn't improve it really doesn't matter, just saying...

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02-08-2013, 05:23 AM
  #359
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Has the goaltending been bad? Sure. It doesn't help when someone can get in 2 or 3 point blank rebound shots unopposed, or park directly on the blue paint without being touched.

Elevate the team defense, watch your goalies handle the first shot and someone get it OUT OF THE CREASE.

And pie has honestly been infuriating me lately. I'm of the opinion that he was being called out by hitch. Play how you play, not how ek plays.

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Old
02-08-2013, 07:02 AM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyIdeas View Post
Has the goaltending been bad? Sure. It doesn't help when someone can get in 2 or 3 point blank rebound shots unopposed, or park directly on the blue paint without being touched.

Elevate the team defense, watch your goalies handle the first shot and someone get it OUT OF THE CREASE.

And pie has honestly been infuriating me lately. I'm of the opinion that he was being called out by hitch. Play how you play, not how ek plays.
That's part of the problem though. An NHL goalie needs to have better rebound control than Eliott has been showing.

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02-08-2013, 09:24 AM
  #361
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Alright just got in to work, a little hungover, time to rant.


Where is the forecheck?

Schwartz clearly isnt ready, he looks awful out there and its not his fault entirely. He is working hard but he is just getting pushed around and outmuscled every play, he needs to go down.

Redden blows. Cole needs to play, thats all.

Ellliot is playing like the real Elliot. Not a huge surprise

Petro isnt Erik Karlsson, quit trying to play like him and play your game, its great that hes the only one creating any offence but we need him to play d like he did last year.

Where is the forecheck?

Stewart really pissed me off last night, IMO that 3rd goal was all on him, he is standing right next to that guy(forget his name) with his thumb in his ass while this guy just hammers in the rebound, where is the effort?

Steen clearly isnt cutting it at center, he needs to be moved back to the wing, cant win a faceoff if his life depended on it, not that any of our guys could. He is so much more effective on the wing, a lot of people say our number one need is a partner for Petro, I disagree, we need another center.

Perron. Kid, you are not Malkin, you are not Kovalev, you have these things called teammates, use them, pass them the puck. Im so sick of him trying to do everything himself and just stickhandle around by himself until he coughs up the puck, honestly I wouldnt mind seeing him go.

Sorry for the rant but like i said im hungover and really pissed about the last couple games. good day

Oh, and wheres the forecheck?

edit: Got all caught up in my hate and forgot to mention, Oshie looked great, he is playing great this year.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:01 AM
  #362
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A couple of things,

Redden is -5 in 6 games. Ouch. Now a lot of that is on AP trying to be EK, and not being AP. However, Cole is a +1 in 4 games.

One person getting a mainly free ride around these boards is Backes. He has played 10 games, and has yet to score against a goalie. Sure he's still hitting people, but we need more from our second highest paid player then physical play. Everyone is beating on Steen for being unproductive at Center, yet he has more points against goalies (6) then Backes has (5).

Schwartz isn't ready. I like the kid a lot, but he's just not ready. He's too slow, can't shoot, can't win in the corners. Needs another year of seasoning in the AHL.

Stewart is still the same player, just 20 lbs lighter and a bit faster. I was so hoping to be wrong about this. Can clearly produce if paired with the right linemates/system, and everyone else is doing the grunt work in the corners for him. But the guy is just brutal near a wall.

Kris Russell. Had a great playoffs last year, was probably our best defenseman for the first 1-3 games of this season. Has fallen off a cliff. Needs something to get him going/help him see what was effective before, and not anymore.

Goalies. Nuff said. Need better rebound control, need more saves in general.

The only players this year who have impressed me over this 10 game stretch are: Berglund, Oshie, Shattenkirk, Frank. AP looks great on paper, but absolutely brutal in real life.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:19 AM
  #363
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Oshie and Shattenkirk definitely deserve praise for their play so far this season. At least Oshie looks like he consistently cares. He's one of the few players who's been putting work above skill these last few games. Last night one of the only positives I could think of was that Oshie is locked up for five years.

As far as the lines go... it's kind of like last year when everyone got healthy towards the end of the season, and lines were changed to fit everyone in and the Blues played very poorly down the last stretch. I like the lines that ManyIdeas posted, but I do feel like McDonald's offensive ability would be wasted on that line.

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Old
02-08-2013, 10:33 AM
  #364
MattyMo35
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No disciplinary action for Franzen's spear on Perron. I do not agree with that one bit. It really sends the wrong message to the league.

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02-08-2013, 10:44 AM
  #365
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Perron boarding him was also a dirty play

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02-08-2013, 10:49 AM
  #366
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Too many Blues fans don't want to confront the simple fact that too many of the Blues don't want to play tough. They are letting people pile in front of the net because they are afraid of confrontation and banging it out. Most fans of the Blues bad years realize that they can count on Jackman and Backes to step up and protect when need be even though they aren't the best at it. I know many wanted to dish Jackman but I'm pro-Jackman because of his gritty play, while everyone skated over at a leisurely pace to defend Perron Jackman actually got involved. That was something that Big Walt brought to the table and until St. Louis accepts that they are getting bullied they might as well like the feeling of getting sand thrown in their eyes. I'd rather watch the old roster lose and play with heart than watch this new roster with all of this talent get their guts stomped out because they don't want to engage the other team as an opponent.

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02-08-2013, 11:09 AM
  #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
No disciplinary action for Franzen's spear on Perron. I do not agree with that one bit. It really sends the wrong message to the league.
The NHL is a garage league - Mario Lemieux 1992

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02-08-2013, 11:58 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Thallis View Post
That's part of the problem though. An NHL goalie needs to have better rebound control than Eliott has been showing.
Oh I know. Lack of toughness/willingness to battle is still a massive issue

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02-08-2013, 12:07 PM
  #369
Harley83
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Originally Posted by ManyIdeas View Post
Oh I know. Lack of toughness/willingness to battle is still a massive issue
EXACTLY!! Too many Blues fans want to blame it on everything but simple battle/toughness issues. St. Louis doesn't get to park in front of the oppositions goaltender, so why let them park in front of theirs? Watch successful Eastern Conference hockey teams and you'll see Defensemen slugging it out to protect their goaltender and his space.

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02-08-2013, 12:33 PM
  #370
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Soft, sloppy, selfish and stupid. That's how they've been playing.

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02-08-2013, 12:45 PM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Al 2 View Post
Perron boarding him was also a dirty play
Perron's boarding was a simple 2 minute minor. Perron could have blasted him from behind if he wanted to, but he let up and hit him rather softly. He deserved the 2 minute minor, but that does not justify a spear to the groin.

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02-08-2013, 12:46 PM
  #372
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Think Halak will be a go tommorrow?

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02-08-2013, 12:55 PM
  #373
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Detroit plays between the pipes a 5th round pick in 2010, Petr Mrazek? After watching this pathetic game why didn't the Blues start 2nd round pick from 2008 Jake Allen? C'mon man, Elliott sucks, and has sucked since the LA series in the playoffs. Oh boy, where is Ben Bishop when we need him? In Ottowa for a 2nd round pick, who has a 20% chance of a NHL shot, just saying.

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02-08-2013, 02:01 PM
  #374
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Alright just got in to work, a little hungover, time to rant.


Where is the forecheck?

Schwartz clearly isnt ready, he looks awful out there and its not his fault entirely. He is working hard but he is just getting pushed around and outmuscled every play, he needs to go down.

Redden blows. Cole needs to play, thats all.

Ellliot is playing like the real Elliot. Not a huge surprise

Petro isnt Erik Karlsson, quit trying to play like him and play your game, its great that hes the only one creating any offence but we need him to play d like he did last year.

Where is the forecheck?

Stewart really pissed me off last night, IMO that 3rd goal was all on him, he is standing right next to that guy(forget his name) with his thumb in his ass while this guy just hammers in the rebound, where is the effort?

Steen clearly isnt cutting it at center, he needs to be moved back to the wing, cant win a faceoff if his life depended on it, not that any of our guys could. He is so much more effective on the wing, a lot of people say our number one need is a partner for Petro, I disagree, we need another center.

Perron. Kid, you are not Malkin, you are not Kovalev, you have these things called teammates, use them, pass them the puck. Im so sick of him trying to do everything himself and just stickhandle around by himself until he coughs up the puck, honestly I wouldnt mind seeing him go.

Sorry for the rant but like i said im hungover and really pissed about the last couple games. good day

Oh, and wheres the forecheck?

edit: Got all caught up in my hate and forgot to mention, Oshie looked great, he is playing great this year.
Fantastic post, I agree with everything.

I don't think I've ever been as pissed off about a game as I was last night. Usually when the Blues play poorly I'm mad for the next half hour after the game but I get over it. But man that game last night has really put me in a sour mood. Just can't stop thinking about it...it's awful the way we've lost the past few games. And Hitchcock is apparently giving them a day of rest today. I strongly disagree with that. We've had enough rest lately by playing 2 games over the past week and look what freakin' happened. They laid an egg in both games and looked completely pathetic out there. I would have worked them hard today, but what do I know...

Stewart isn't working on this team. Hate to say it but it's true.

Perron isn't much better. He has a couple good games and scores a bunch of points and then starts playing like an idiot for the next stretch.

I would look at moving both of them (as I pointed out in the trade proposals thread).

I've seen enough of Schwartz and Russell. I don't get what Hitch sees in these two...they need to sit for a while. They are awful and just too small. Honestly, Porter would be better suited here. His energy on the 4th-line would be welcomed.

I feel bad for Cole and even D'Agostini. Give them a chance, and with REAL players this time. Don't put D'Ags with Nichol and Reaves. He has no chance of scoring there...

I must have underrated Halak, we need him back. He isn't the savior by any means, but he IS better than Elliott. Good grief Elliott's been horrible.

Agreed, we need a center in the worst way...That should be our #1 priority. Cole/Redden may not be ideal but they should be OK.

I want to see more from McDonald, he's not impressing me that much.

Oshie, Jackman and Shattenkirk are some of the few who have impressed me during this horrible stretch. They play hard and pretty well. I do admire Oshie's work ethic...he gets a lot of ice time and always shows up. He's a good player for us. Berglund and Tarasenko have been alright. I like Berglund a lot more now. I used to lump him in with Stewart as inconsistent, and while he still may be offensively, his defensive game is much improved, so whenever he's out there I now feel like he at least makes an impact somehow. Backes' game I'm okay with. Yeah he needs to start scoring but his physical presence is one that we cannot live without.

A lot to talk about. Saturday will be interesting. Will they get back to their game and identity? Because the forecheck and physicality has just completely disappeared...and that's very strange. They need to get back to playing their brand of hockey. But still, these losses have exposed some flaws the Blues have and we have to fix them.

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02-08-2013, 05:31 PM
  #375
Harley83
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Players like Oshie, Jackman and Backes are always good to have because even if they aren't performing so well in statistics you can always count on them providing a solid effort and staying off the IR unless it's really legit. McDonald reminds me of Langenbrunner, lots of talent in the past but now just filling out the rest of his career and if a good opportunity comes around to make the play why not.. Andy Mac used to be touted for his speed and vision but neither look too hot anymore but I'm sure concussion history has something to do with it.

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