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Stepan has 6 less points than O'Reilly and the same number of goals in 62 less games played. He's had 2 years of 40+ points, O'Reilly has had one. O'Reilly does not have a contract, Stepan does. They are both very responsible defensively. Care to tell me again why we would be adding?
Avs would have to throw in a pick or a depth player, but if Avs fans don't think this is fair value you really need to take the homer goggles off. I understand that this trade would be a swap essentially, but in the case that O'Reilly doesn't want to play for the Avs, it might make sense.
Stepan has 6 less points than O'Reilly and the same number of goals in 62 less games played. He's had 2 years of 40+ points, O'Reilly has had one. O'Reilly does not have a contract, Stepan does. They are both very responsible defensively. Care to tell me again why we would be adding?
Avs would have to throw in a pick or a depth player, but if Avs fans don't think this is fair value you really need to take the homer goggles off. I understand that this trade would be a swap essentially, but in the case that O'Reilly doesn't want to play for the Avs, it might make sense.
I'm a Rangers fan who believes we need to add if we do Stepan for O'Reilly. O'Reilly is simply a brilliant defensive forward who is also a monster on the forecheck. He also led the league in takeaways last year.
I was on the Bruins board and one of their posters linked to two articles a while back that demonstrated much better than I could do what O'Reilly adds as a player that does not show on the scoresheet. The links are listed below id you are interested. Really interesting reads imo.
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He does all the little things right, his game is in the details. imo he is way past Kelly in terms of what he brings. Here's some statistical information that helps communicate the value he brings: O'reilly Value
he is far closer to bergeron than kelly, i don't think that's even a question. but i guess it is for some of us
That being said, any deal is obviously contingent on his contract demands. Given he is currently injured I do not see anything happening in that regards in the immediate future.
Last edited by The Sweetness: 02-09-2013 at 11:48 AM.
Stepan has 6 less points than O'Reilly and the same number of goals in 62 less games played. He's had 2 years of 40+ points, O'Reilly has had one. O'Reilly does not have a contract, Stepan does. They are both very responsible defensively. Care to tell me again why we would be adding?
Avs would have to throw in a pick or a depth player, but if Avs fans don't think this is fair value you really need to take the homer goggles off. I understand that this trade would be a swap essentially, but in the case that O'Reilly doesn't want to play for the Avs, it might make sense.
OReilly stepped into a teeeerrible team and did very well. OReilly is more than just responsible defensively and his potential is still untapped.
We basically expect him to turn into Bergeron of Kesler and shouldn't just get rid of him to be rid of him.
Stepan would be a solid return indeed but adding to get him would defeat the point of trading OReilly. We'd be better off waiting this out i think.
In other words, "I haven't seen any of these guys play, but I HAVE read some HF posts about them, so I'm going to weigh in as if I have any idea what I'm talking about."
Rangers fans in this thread--please stop entertaining Avs delusions. Sather wouldn't touch an RFA hold-out like O'Reilly with a 10 foot pole.
Avs fans, if RO'R has so much apparent value, pay him what he wants and enjoy the bad contract. Positionally, the Rangers don't need him. Contractually, the Rangers don't want him.
Again--Consistency--he ain't got it. For the Avs fans claiming that you "could just see the offense waiting to happen" when he was only putting up totals in the mid 20s, I'll tell you what I DID see last year. I saw a guy who put up a lot more points because he found himself on a line with Landeskog. Until he can show that last season was a product of HIS ability and not Landeskog's nobody is going to give you close to what you want.
Blah blah blah.
Boyle is garbage (outside the pk). Bickell is a ****ing plug. MDZ is the only valuable piece there and me personally. Id take the centre over him any day.
The Avs seem to be doing fine without RoR, it looks like injuries are the problem.
But with JT Miller at 3C I think RoR is less valuable to us, Callahan healthy and Kreider getting his **** together have worked wonders for our forward depth.
How about Skjei+Gilroy for Wilson+3rd? Please take Bickel too. Please.
I'm not defensive about O'Reilly and I find a lot of Avalanche fans' posts on this forum to be quite idiotic, especially when it concerns Stastny given the typical two-faced nature on that subject; if any center is traded, a lot of fans will most likely be massively, massively disappointed.
Stastny gets a lot of **** from Avs fans, some of it justifiably so. However, he's one hell of a 2nd round pick from a deep draft.
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I just consider it quite rich that you would take the angle that McDonagh is vastly more proven when he's not and try to brush that off by sustenance of play while also ignoring the age difference and other factors. You are biased regardless of what delusion you have.
There's no delusion or anything here. McDonagh has played at the same level albeit over a slightly smaller sample size and there's a premium on young top-pairing defenders as compared to young two-way centers.
You can believe whatever you want, but until O'Reilly maintains the same offensive production in whatever relative comparison you can make to McDonagh's defensive ability (honestly, this argument is a joke because we're trying to compare apples to oranges here) there really isn't anything to work with.
McDonagh has played at a higher level than O'Reilly has. You want to avoid this fact? Go right ahead. See if I care. Your accusations of "delusions of grandeur" and whatever other terms you want to use doesn't change this fact.
lol what? Colorado has 0 goals from our defense this year so far. I'd say he's exactly what we need and in a big way.
Nah, if we trade for a Dman it should be an EJ partner, and I dunno about you, but I want to see EJ finally play with someone who he won't have to worry about covering for.
Stepan has 6 less points than O'Reilly and the same number of goals in 62 less games played. He's had 2 years of 40+ points, O'Reilly has had one. O'Reilly does not have a contract, Stepan does. They are both very responsible defensively. Care to tell me again why we would be adding?
Avs would have to throw in a pick or a depth player, but if Avs fans don't think this is fair value you really need to take the homer goggles off. I understand that this trade would be a swap essentially, but in the case that O'Reilly doesn't want to play for the Avs, it might make sense.
Short answer: O'Reilly is better
Long answer? I think you already know it, considering how you called O'reilly's 55 point season a "40+" one and used career points even though Stepan has had an extra year of development.
I'm not sure a response is even needed in this thread, O'Reilly is being underrated when his defensive game is compared to Zajac. Meanwhile people honestly think Stepan is in his league? He's a cut above Stepan offensively so far and would probably find himself as the best defensive player on the Rags roster, at the very least on par either Cally, whom he'd have phenomenal chemistry with given his similarities to Landeskog.
It's simply a joke that O'Reilly is unproven, didn't play like a #1 center (seriously, he played other team's top lines AND out performed them, is that not a #1 center? He out performed Datsyuk defensively going head to head) and is inconsistent but McD is somehow not.
If you value McD as a young top pairing defender, you can excuse the Avs for valuing O'Reilly as a young future 1b center. We're not paying him because Duchy took a discount and it's his 2nd contract, blame that jerk Meehan for him holding out.
I'm not overly thrilled by the idea of acquiring Del Zotto, he's never struck me as the type to develop into a top pairing defender and I feel aside from his offensive poise, EJ would be covering for his mess as much as anyone else we'd put with him.
Keep Barrie and see what he's got down the road, Elliott is promising too. We can find a better offer elsewhere.
Also, heck no to the OP. O'Reilly for Del Zotto is probably fair, including Barrie and Aitto for Boyle and Bickel is terrible on our part. If Hunwick can undress you, you're not NHL material.
lol wut? So your saying you know nothing of Del Zotto outside of his highlights and the few Avs v Rangers game. Got it.
__________________
I feel like this is such an appropriate quote for these boards...
"Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level, and then beat you with experience"-Mark Twain
McDonagh has played at a higher level than O'Reilly has. You want to avoid this fact? Go right ahead. See if I care. Your accusations of "delusions of grandeur" and whatever other terms you want to use doesn't change this fact.
You care, which is why you keep trying to twist it so that you can claim your player is more proven. If you want to cite sample size then your position is bunk. End of story.
Stepan will play elite defense at the center position? Yeah I don't think so.
No, but there's a good chance that he'll put up more points.
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Originally Posted by NHL33
You care, which is why you keep trying to twist it so that you can claim your player is more proven. If you want to cite sample size then your position is bunk. End of story.
No, I actually don't care and I'm not twisting anything. What you're doing is just saying that I'm twisting things because you really have no argument, that's why McDonagh finished as high as he did in the Norris Voting in only his 2nd season. It took O'Reilly THREE seasons to crack the top-20 in Selke Voting.
Keep grasping at straws. You look more and more ridiculous with each post.
Stepan can produce 50-60 pts in an 82-game season. He is also very good defensively, although I will admit RoR is a step above him. If Step was on the 1st line with Nash and Gaborik, 60-70 points isn't too much of a stretch.
It's a misconception that he spent his icetime with Gabs last season. His linemates were usually Anisimov, Callahan, Hagelin, Dubinsky who scored 2 times per month, and sometimes even Brandon Prust.
TLR
Stepan is better offensively, is very good defensively but RoR is better without the puck
No, but there's a good chance that he'll put up more points.
No, I actually don't care and I'm not twisting anything. What you're doing is just saying that I'm twisting things because you really have no argument, that's why McDonagh finished as high as he did in the Norris Voting in only his 2nd season. It took O'Reilly THREE seasons to crack the top-20 in Selke Voting.
Keep grasping at straws. You look more and more ridiculous with each post.
Not getting into this argument, just saying that what you posted completely ignores the fact that McDonagh is 2 years older than O'Reilly when using the 'three vs two season argument' which is completely pointless argument anyways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider
This. ^
Stepan can produce 50-60 pts in an 82-game season. He is also very good defensively, although I will admit RoR is a step above him. If Step was on the 1st line with Nash and Gaborik, 60-70 points isn't too much of a stretch.
It's a misconception that he spent his icetime with Gabs last season. His linemates were usually Anisimov, Callahan, Hagelin, Dubinsky who scored 2 times per month, and sometimes even Brandon Prust.
TLR
Stepan is better offensively, is very good defensively but RoR is better without the puck
If you're implying RoR had better linemates, that's simply wrong. Landeskog and Callahan are very much comparable, and Downie who can be compared to Anisimov or Dubinsky for offensive production.
If you're implying RoR had better linemates, that's simply wrong. Landeskog and Callahan are very much comparable, and Downie who can be compared to Anisimov or Dubinsky for offensive production.
Don't forget he spent 15-20 games with the blackhole known as Winnik, then he and Landeskog carried Hejduk for half the season during his 1 goal in 35 some odd games.
The amount of credit being taken from Ryan for his offensive success is astounding, even by our own GM.
Stepan can produce 50-60 pts in an 82-game season. He is also very good defensively, although I will admit RoR is a step above him. If Step was on the 1st line with Nash and Gaborik, 60-70 points isn't too much of a stretch.
It's a misconception that he spent his icetime with Gabs last season. His linemates were usually Anisimov, Callahan, Hagelin, Dubinsky who scored 2 times per month, and sometimes even Brandon Prust.
TLR
Stepan is better offensively, is very good defensively but RoR is better without the puck
But how is Stepan better offensively if O'Reilly scored more than him last season? And what's your basis for thinking Stepan can get 60-70 points but O'Reilly can't?
No, I actually don't care and I'm not twisting anything. What you're doing is just saying that I'm twisting things because you really have no argument, that's why McDonagh finished as high as he did in the Norris Voting in only his 2nd season. It took O'Reilly THREE seasons to crack the top-20 in Selke Voting.
Keep grasping at straws. You look more and more ridiculous with each post.
No real argument? Grasping at straws? I only entered in the conversation to note how critically flawed the Rangers fans' argument was.
What would I be arguing for or against otherwise? I don't care about defending O'Reilly, so your post in general is a head scratcher; maybe you should stop projecting other posters on me just because your sample size verdict doesn't hold up.
Don't forget he spent 15-20 games with the blackhole known as Winnik, then he and Landeskog carried Hejduk for half the season during his 1 goal in 35 some odd games.
The amount of credit being taken from Ryan for his offensive success is astounding, even by our own GM.
Not getting into this argument, just saying that what you posted completely ignores the fact that McDonagh is 2 years older than O'Reilly when using the 'three vs two season argument' which is completely pointless argument anyways.
If you're implying RoR had better linemates, that's simply wrong. Landeskog and Callahan are very much comparable, and Downie who can be compared to Anisimov or Dubinsky for offensive production.
Is downside good to use for the comparison anyway? It was Winnik until the trade deadline
R
