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03-11-2013, 11:42 AM
  #226
SlappaDaBass
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Originally Posted by Ovechkins Wodka View Post
1st time ive been in this troll thread. We drop 2 games because questionable calls and you want to tar and feather Ovie. Good Players can be on bad teams im not going to fight the masses but blaming ovie for not scoring 70 goals and being the best defensive winger is just scape goating
If you're blaming our losses on questionable penalties then you need to show me what games you were watching. Allowing 40+ shots a game and being utterly destroyed in every single aspect of the game was why we were beat these past games. As much as I hate milbury and that casting crew, Ovie is starting to make a valid case for all of that trash talk they've said against him.

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03-11-2013, 11:57 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Are you sure you watched all the games this year? This team's defense is barely NHL caliber and gets completely abused any time anyone establishes a cycle (though that's Ovechkin's fault for being too high, damn him for not being a DFD). The goaltending is for the most part crap aside from a couple small stretches (though Holtby letting people bank goals in off his ass is Ovechkin's fault as well). The vaunted grinders aside from Fehr aren't doing anything of note. They may look good against pee wee teams but they completely fold against any team that knows what they're doing and brings a shred of physicality into the offensive zone.

Semin wouldn't be any more successful here in Ovechkin's place right now than Ovechkin or Backstrom (oh right, he's infallible and doing great), even if he were playing the way he is in Carolina (which is the way he played with the caps). There is simply not enough hockey playing ability on the roster. But I'm sure getting rid of more of it would do absolute wonders for us.

Now Semin WITH Ovechkin and Backstrom and Ribeiro, and you might actually have a team that can beat something other than basement dwellers.
Everyone read this dammit

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03-11-2013, 12:20 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Are you sure you watched all the games this year? This team's defense is barely NHL caliber and gets completely abused any time anyone establishes a cycle (though that's Ovechkin's fault for being too high, damn him for not being a DFD). The goaltending is for the most part crap aside from a couple small stretches (though Holtby letting people bank goals in off his ass is Ovechkin's fault as well). The vaunted grinders aside from Fehr aren't doing anything of note. They may look good against pee wee teams but they completely fold against any team that knows what they're doing and brings a shred of physicality into the offensive zone.

Semin wouldn't be any more successful here in Ovechkin's place right now than Ovechkin or Backstrom (oh right, he's infallible and doing great), even if he were playing the way he is in Carolina (which is the way he played with the caps). There is simply not enough hockey playing ability on the roster. But I'm sure getting rid of more of it would do absolute wonders for us.

Now Semin WITH Ovechkin and Backstrom and Ribeiro, and you might actually have a team that can beat something other than basement dwellers.

To answer my own question, no, you don't ever quit.

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03-11-2013, 12:25 PM
  #229
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To answer my own question, no, you don't ever quit.
Sorry, didn't mean to point out the basic truth. I know it makes you all testy and whatnot

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03-11-2013, 02:38 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Sorry, didn't mean to point out the basic truth. I know it makes you all testy and whatnot
Wow.

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Old
03-11-2013, 02:57 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Right, the caps would have a cup if only Ovechkin tried harder. Cause that's all it takes, no team involvement anywhere.

Funny how I 100% called this literally the moment this board decided Semin was The Cancer last June. That the title would be passed to Ovechkin at the first sign of the team struggling. And here we are.
I get what you're saying, and I agree: AO is.... what he is.

I realize that he's capable of 20-30 goals this year, and yes, that will help.

BUT... even if he plays only 12-15 minutes per game, it's fair to expect a full-effort in those 12-15 minutes.

AND... we're not seeing that.

The reality is, he's paid very well, and I'd wager that the reason Dale decided not to come back was because AO didn't want to play Dale's system. He didn't want to play RW either.... fine... he was given his way again: at last look... he's back @ LW.

At every turn, AO has been cowtowed to.... and given his way.

And as such... it's not unfair to him to ask that he gives full-effort every time he takes the ice. And especially so... because he's wearing that 'C'.

And I think this is a fair assessment.

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03-11-2013, 03:01 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
I get what you're saying, and I agree: AO is.... what he is.

I realize that he's capable of 20-30 goals this year, and yes, that will help.

BUT... even if he plays only 12-15 minutes per game, it's fair to expect a full-effort in those 12-15 minutes.

AND... we're not seeing that.

The reality is, he's paid very well, and I'd wager that the reason Dale decided not to come back was because AO didn't want to play Dale's system. He didn't want to play RW either.... fine... he was given his way again: at last look... he's back @ LW.

At every turn, AO has been cowtowed to.... and given his way.

And as such... it's not unfair to him to ask that he gives full-effort every time he takes the ice. And especially so... because he's wearing that 'C'.

And I think this is a fair assessment.
Everyone read this dammit!

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Old
03-11-2013, 03:24 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Everyone read this dammit!
I think though, Halpysback does make a very good point:

Regardless of what some claim, the team is talent starved. We need people @ all 3 positions: O, D, & G.

And ultimately... you cannot hang that on the players or the coaches.

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03-11-2013, 03:26 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BTCG View Post
I think though, Halpysback does make a very good point:

Regardless of what some claim, the team is talent starved. We need people @ all 3 positions: O, D, & G.

And ultimately... you cannot hang that on the players or the coaches.
This team doesn't even have that many holes. But the holes it has are damn important.

1LW
1 or 2LD
1G (can they really afford to wait for one of Neuvirth or Holtby to step up?)

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03-11-2013, 03:32 PM
  #235
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For me, ultimately, McPhee's biggest failing isn't roster composition, roster construction, trading, the draft, etc. His biggest failing was allowing Ovechkin to be bigger than the team. Now it's too late, and can't be corrected. If Ovechkin and this team are going to succeed, it has to be separately now IMO. Ovechkin won't succeed as long as he thinks he's more important than his team, and the Caps certainly won't succeed if their most important player thinks he's more important than the team.

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03-11-2013, 03:49 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
For me, ultimately, McPhee's biggest failing isn't roster composition, roster construction, trading, the draft, etc. His biggest failing was allowing Ovechkin to be bigger than the team. Now it's too late, and can't be corrected. If Ovechkin and this team are going to succeed, it has to be separately now IMO. Ovechkin won't succeed as long as he thinks he's more important than his team, and the Caps certainly won't succeed if their most important player thinks he's more important than the team.
What you cite is lower on my list.

To me... every year, the team reaches a certain point, and then regresses.

We just never get better... and George has had plenty of time and money.

Even if we call him unlucky.... it's time to find a luckier fellow.

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03-11-2013, 04:10 PM
  #237
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RMNB‏@russianmachine

"Personally, I think this guy finishes his career in the KHL." - Jeff Marek, on Alex Ovechkin http://tmblr.co/Z4Gyyxg29Gow

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Old
03-11-2013, 04:44 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
This team doesn't even have that many holes. But the holes it has are damn important.

1LW
1 or 2LD
1G (can they really afford to wait for one of Neuvirth or Holtby to step up?)
Actually it's

1 LW/RW based on whatever Ovechkin is
2 LW/RW unless we're really sold on both Brouwer and Fehr being long term top 6 options. Ideally one of them is a tweener who does his work on the 3rd line and then moves. Neither of them has much of a playmaking element that that line needs more of, and we could use a better. Hopefully Forsberg can fill this next year to the point where it's not a hole, but he is a rookie. Kuznetsov would most likely be able to fill it instantly but he's full season away.
shutdown/FO ace 3C of at least McClement caliber. Perreault is a decent tweener but we can't have a 3C prone to being manhandled for any chance of playoff success.

A defensive pairing that's close to as good if not better than Alzner + Carlson. One that doesn't feature a groincussed green. At best that's one solid two way D in the vein of Coburn/Giordano/Smid/Tyutin and Orlov exceeding all expectations and establishing himself as a legit top 4. More likely it's 2 defensemen of that caliber with Orlov being allowed to develop on the 3rd pairing.

Goalie would be nice, but if skaters are solidified enough Holtby should be passable.

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03-11-2013, 04:45 PM
  #239
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*moves up in case of injuries/to shake up stagnant lines (Brouwer/Fehr)

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03-11-2013, 04:50 PM
  #240
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Clowe would be perfect for Backstrom's winger. Don't care how brutal his year is, he's clearly still an NHL caliber player with terrible puck luck who is pressing like crazy. Great option for a buy low. Heavyweight fighter with top 6 skill who thinks pass-first and whose speed isn't as big of a concern with Backstrom who plays the game slow anyway. Clowe-Backstrom-Brouwer/Fehr would be a very solid line.

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03-11-2013, 05:10 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlappaDaBass View Post
If you're blaming our losses on questionable penalties then you need to show me what games you were watching. Allowing 40+ shots a game and being utterly destroyed in every single aspect of the game was why we were beat these past games. As much as I hate milbury and that casting crew, Ovie is starting to make a valid case for all of that trash talk they've said against him.
Yeah, you are right, Milbury is correct in saying Ovechkin shouldn't of stood at the face off circle waiting for Green or Perreault with wide open passing lane for a one timer, no he should of skated into an opposing player.

People say he isn't trying, but the whole thing with Callahan, whats that called, he saw a guy wide open went to tie him and he dived and then he went to cover McDonagh, and gets a phantom holding call and then went to block Boyles shot.

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03-11-2013, 05:25 PM
  #242
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Is there a Russian NHL star you wouldn't expect to finish his career in the KHL?

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03-11-2013, 05:34 PM
  #243
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His basic skill set has gone to **** and he *looks* like he isn't trying / doesn't care. Maybe that's not the case but he is nowhere near the player he used to be. Blame the rules, the blatant russian hatred from the canadian base, the huge playoff failures, whatever. I still like the man but this franchise goes nowhere without this guy being a star. He isn't even close right now. If that can't be fixed he needs to be elsewhere for the sake of everyone involved.

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03-11-2013, 05:42 PM
  #244
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Is there a Russian NHL star you wouldn't expect to finish his career in the KHL?
Well if he does after his contract, he will be doing so at 36, just like Datsyuk... Red Wings fans have pretty widely accepted there is a 90% chance Datsyuk will leave after next season.

Where as people are saying Ovechkin, the first guy back to the US of all the Russians in the KHL when the lockout ended, he's the one that is going to the KHL.

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03-11-2013, 07:07 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by SimplySensational View Post
Well if he does after his contract, he will be doing so at 36, just like Datsyuk... Red Wings fans have pretty widely accepted there is a 90% chance Datsyuk will leave after next season.

Where as people are saying Ovechkin, the first guy back to the US of all the Russians in the KHL when the lockout ended, he's the one that is going to the KHL.
So.... what are you doin lately? Your posts are really improving.

Now, I try to respect the board and not mention the DRW, but since you brought it up, I'll comment.

#13... to me, and many, many others, is your best of his generation player. What does he own, 2 or 3 Selkes? He's the best 2-way player in the game, and they say he's always working on new moves. Easy to see too, as NHL.com always has them on the index page.

Frankly, AO ought to work out with him in the off-season.

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03-11-2013, 07:10 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Clowe would be perfect for Backstrom's winger. Don't care how brutal his year is, he's clearly still an NHL caliber player with terrible puck luck who is pressing like crazy. Great option for a buy low. Heavyweight fighter with top 6 skill who thinks pass-first and whose speed isn't as big of a concern with Backstrom who plays the game slow anyway. Clowe-Backstrom-Brouwer/Fehr would be a very solid line.
I agree, but landing him might be difficult.

On MP, I agree: as the 3rd Dman, he's just not tough enough.

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03-11-2013, 07:13 PM
  #247
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The way Stepan and Ovechkin were skating there was a significant chance for a headshot were the hit to go wrong, at least from Ovechkin's perspective. Stepan wasn't looking at him and he'd pretty much have to extend his arm to catch him good. At this point for him that's 2 games minimum.

Obviously he'll never admit this to anybody, but my guess is his family/friends/circle of influence let him hear it when he lost like 400 grand because of the Michalek hit. That probably put a nail in the coffin of him being a reckless regular season player. No matter how much you make that hurts like a mofo, since people aren't wired to perceive monetary loss proportionally to how much money they have except in extreme cases. You'd be equally pissed about a $400 fine whether you make 50 grand or 200 grand.

That doesn't excuse him not staying with Stepan or whatever (though if Holtby doesn't play like an amateur it's a complete non-issue in the scope of the game), but these things have to be taken into account. Otherwise we're painting a picture that doesn't correlate with reality.

During the regular season, expect him to play significantly under the line. In the playoffs when there's no money to be lost and the adrenaline gets flowing, he'd revert back to manwrecker Ovechkin.

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03-11-2013, 07:16 PM
  #248
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I agree, but landing him might be difficult.

On MP, I agree: as the 3rd Dman, he's just not tough enough.
Before this season he was probably on pace for money similar to Hartnell. I imagine his stat line and concern about his speed would scare off quite a few GMs. If pro scouting has faith that he's not really declining and shows him the money it could be a hit of a signing. People thought Cole was completely washed up when Montreal showed him the money and they got a huge contributor out of him. Ditto Phoenix and Whitney.

MP is the perfect Andrew Ebbett type regular season fill-in but you don't want him in the playoffs except as an injury top 6 replacement.

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03-11-2013, 07:18 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
The way Stepan and Ovechkin were skating there was a significant chance for a headshot were the hit to go wrong, at least from Ovechkin's perspective. Stepan wasn't looking at him and he'd pretty much have to extend his arm to catch him good. At this point for him that's 2 games minimum.

Obviously he'll never admit this to anybody, but my guess is his family/friends/circle of influence let him hear it when he lost like 400 grand because of the Michalek hit. That probably put a nail in the coffin of him being a reckless regular season player. No matter how much you make that hurts like a mofo, since people aren't wired to perceive monetary loss proportionally to how much money they have except in extreme cases. You'd be equally pissed about a $400 fine whether you make 50 grand or 200 grand.

That doesn't excuse him not staying with Stepan or whatever (though if Holtby doesn't play like an amateur it's a complete non-issue in the scope of the game), but these things have to be taken into account. Otherwise we're painting a picture that doesn't correlate with reality.

During the regular season, expect him to play significantly under the line. In the playoffs when there's no money to be lost and the adrenaline gets flowing, he'd revert back to manwrecker Ovechkin.
Can't remember who the other player was, but if you're talking about AO's 'miss' @ centre ice that resulted in their 1st goal... I would make this point:

Sure, we can say that it may have been dangerous, and grant him a mulligan.

BUT... we cannot give him a pass for not doing a hockey basic: stick on the ice!

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03-11-2013, 07:19 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
Before this season he was probably on pace for money similar to Hartnell. I imagine his stat line and concern about his speed would scare off quite a few GMs. If pro scouting has faith that he's not really declining and shows him the money it could be a hit of a signing. People thought Cole was completely washed up when Montreal showed him the money and they got a huge contributor out of him. Ditto Phoenix and Whitney.

MP is the perfect Andrew Ebbett type regular season fill-in but you don't want him in the playoffs except as an injury top 6 replacement.
Cole seems to be like a cat: 9 lifes.

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