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Old
03-04-2013, 12:51 AM
  #126
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What exactly do you guys think you are going to get back in return?

*Consider that any team taking him is taking a chance.

*Consider that his salary eat away at building a team

*Consider that if the manager trades all those assets and AO doesn't snap out of it, the next GM will offer far less....if anyone is actually interested at all (again salary).

Top 20 player....but remember the cap $$$$$$

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03-04-2013, 01:07 AM
  #127
Mantha Poodoo
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If you don't mind an outsider's opinion, I think Ovi still "has it". Never bought all that crap about Ovi being a playoff choker either; Ovi's playoff stats and his play in important games was awesome.

Ovi is surrounded by crap from the top down. There are some good pieces, but as a whole just.. eh. Ovy still has the skill and passion, but also a lot of frustration. He looks lost among all the flotsam and jetsam that he's on the ice with.

Having watched Datsyuk play between Abdelkader and Cleary the past few games, I think I see how Ovy has felt the past couple years.

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03-04-2013, 08:12 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by The Wheeled Winger View Post
Ovi is surrounded by crap from the top down. There are some good pieces, but as a whole just.. eh. Ovy still has the skill and passion, but also a lot of frustration. He looks lost among all the flotsam and jetsam that he's on the ice with.

Having watched Datsyuk play between Abdelkader and Cleary the past few games, I think I see how Ovy has felt the past couple years.
At 20 years old, playing with Chris Clark and Dainus Zubrus on a lottery team, Alex was twice the player he's been in nearly three years.

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03-04-2013, 10:36 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by BrooklynCapsFan View Post
At 20 years old, playing with Chris Clark and Dainus Zubrus on a lottery team, Alex was twice the player he's been in nearly three years.
Yeah that is definitely where the 'he's playing with garbage' arguments break down.

There could be a number of reasons for his precipitous decline but lack of talent around him is not one of them.

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03-04-2013, 11:06 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Yeah that is definitely where the 'he's playing with garbage' arguments break down.

There could be a number of reasons for his precipitous decline but lack of talent around him is not one of them.
Not necessarily true, consider the fact hes been in the league for as long as he has, teams have adjusted, gotten better, etc. And then consider the fact that maybe his line mates haven't gotten any better. So that argument would be that ovi hasn't necessarily gotten any worse, just that hes at more of a disadvantage then he was while his line mates haven't changed.

Not saying I believe that theory of course.

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03-04-2013, 11:10 AM
  #131
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it didnt take teams 5 years to adjust to OV he has just gotten worse

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03-04-2013, 11:25 AM
  #132
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Instead of trading him, it would be great if we could get Ovie to become, you know, a hard working player. I think that would be a lot more palatable than watching him, you know, float all over the ice at that cap hit w the "C" on his chest.

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03-04-2013, 11:57 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Lawrencejame View Post
Not necessarily true, consider the fact hes been in the league for as long as he has, teams have adjusted, gotten better, etc. And then consider the fact that maybe his line mates haven't gotten any better. So that argument would be that ovi hasn't necessarily gotten any worse, just that hes at more of a disadvantage then he was while his line mates haven't changed.

Not saying I believe that theory of course.
I'm going to go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy out on a limb and make the claim that Backstrom and Ribeiro are better centermen than Zubrus was.

And while I will 100% buy into the league had made adjustments to slow him down I will also say that Ovechkin has made little or no effort to expand his game and make himself better. When Crosby came into the league he was criticized for his poor faceoff abilities and lack of goal scoring. He worked hard to improve those parts of his game and is now excellent at both.

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03-04-2013, 12:02 PM
  #134
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Anybody have a breakdown of how points Ovi has scored with / without Backstrom and with / without Ribeiro this year only.

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03-04-2013, 12:46 PM
  #135
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Many, many parallels between Alexander Ovechkin and Alexander Semin being argued in this thread not surprisingly. Alot of the same things and reasons are being said about both their performances. And, there is a thread on bad management. IMO, it is and always has been a terrible organization, starting from the top down. Very unfortunate for Caps fans that continue to have faith in their team and continue to pay their hard earned coin to support this organization that in my opinion, continue to rip off it's fans. Alex Ovechkin no longer wants to have any part of it and his heart is not in it. It has nothing to do with his wife, or the man on the moon. He sees it for what it is and wants out. His career is at stake in Washington and he knows it. When he does finally leave, he will be the elite player he has always been and there will be no shortage of teams vying for his services.

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03-04-2013, 01:14 PM
  #136
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03-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #137
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This thread is about Ovechkin, not Ribeiro.

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03-04-2013, 02:47 PM
  #138
Liberati0n
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Originally Posted by rocky7 View Post
Many, many parallels between Alexander Ovechkin and Alexander Semin being argued in this thread not surprisingly. Alot of the same things and reasons are being said about both their performances. And, there is a thread on bad management. IMO, it is and always has been a terrible organization, starting from the top down. Very unfortunate for Caps fans that continue to have faith in their team and continue to pay their hard earned coin to support this organization that in my opinion, continue to rip off it's fans. Alex Ovechkin no longer wants to have any part of it and his heart is not in it. It has nothing to do with his wife, or the man on the moon. He sees it for what it is and wants out. His career is at stake in Washington and he knows it. When he does finally leave, he will be the elite player he has always been and there will be no shortage of teams vying for his services.
Can you stop posting here and making Semin-supporters look bad? Your interpretation of the Ovechkin situation is completely off-base and you appear to be incapable of constructing a coherent English sentence.

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03-04-2013, 02:56 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Anybody have a breakdown of how points Ovi has scored with / without Backstrom and with / without Ribeiro this year only.
Even Strength
with Backstrom: TOI - 73:45, Points - 1, P/60 - 0.81
without Backstrom: TOI - 240:17, Points - 6, P/60 - 1.50
with Ribeiro: TOI - 187:58, Points - 5, P/60 - 1.60
without Ribeiro: TOI - 126:04, Points - 2, P/60 - 0.95

All his 9 powerplay points Ovechkin scored while both Riberio and Backstrom were on the ice too.

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03-04-2013, 03:03 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by romao View Post
Even Strength
with Backstrom: TOI - 73:45, Points - 1, P/60 - 0.81
without Backstrom: TOI - 240:17, Points - 6, P/60 - 1.50
with Ribeiro: TOI - 187:58, Points - 5, P/60 - 1.60
without Ribeiro: TOI - 126:04, Points - 2, P/60 - 0.95

All his 9 powerplay points Ovechkin scored while both Riberio and Backstrom were on the ice too.
Sorry, does that say 1.6PPG with Ribeiro? If that bears out over the whole season, that's enough reason in itself to re-sign Ribeiro for whatever he wants.

Do you have the breakdown of how he is with/without Beagle?

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03-04-2013, 03:10 PM
  #141
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There's no excuse for your heart not to be in your own career.

Leonsis and McPhee may be poseurs but the idea that they're somehow responsible for Ovechkin's lack of self-motivation/discipline/passion is ridiculous.

He lost focus in his game after the Olympics and the Montreal series and his effort level on and off the ice has declined steadily since.

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03-04-2013, 03:14 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Sorry, does that say 1.6PPG with Ribeiro? If that bears out over the whole season, that's enough reason in itself to re-sign Ribeiro for whatever he wants.

Do you have the breakdown of how he is with/without Beagle?
P/60, so PP2.5G, give or take

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03-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by ChibiPooky View Post
Sorry, does that say 1.6PPG with Ribeiro?

Do you have the breakdown of how he is with/without Beagle?
No, it means 1.60 points per 60 minutes at EV.
With Beagle Ovi played about 40 minutes and got 1 point. So numbers with Beagle are much better than with Backstrom, but you know that's too small sample size.
To be precise
With Beagle: TOI - 40:13, Points - 1, P/60 - 1.49
Without Beagle: TOI - 273:49, Points - 6, P/60 - 1.31

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Old
03-04-2013, 03:16 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Halpysback View Post
P/60, so PP2.5G, give or take
Ah right. Damnable Mucinex, making me all excitable.

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03-04-2013, 03:27 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by rocky7 View Post
Many, many parallels between Alexander Ovechkin and Alexander Semin being argued in this thread not surprisingly. Alot of the same things and reasons are being said about both their performances. And, there is a thread on bad management. IMO, it is and always has been a terrible organization, starting from the top down. Very unfortunate for Caps fans that continue to have faith in their team and continue to pay their hard earned coin to support this organization that in my opinion, continue to rip off it's fans. Alex Ovechkin no longer wants to have any part of it and his heart is not in it. It has nothing to do with his wife, or the man on the moon. He sees it for what it is and wants out. His career is at stake in Washington and he knows it. When he does finally leave, he will be the elite player he has always been and there will be no shortage of teams vying for his services.
So to summarize, you're saying he's essentially quit on the team (or at best is half-assing it)because the organization that is paying him $120 mil has been bad?

Well, if that's the case, he's not the franchise player we all thought he is. Hope you're wrong, because that means he still needs to grow up and shouldn't be the Captain of this team.

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03-04-2013, 04:11 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
So to summarize, you're saying he's essentially quit on the team (or at best is half-assing it)because the organization that is paying him $120 mil has been bad?

Well, if that's the case, he's not the franchise player we all thought he is. Hope you're wrong, because that means he still needs to grow up and shouldn't be the Captain of this team.
The question was should Alex O. be traded for the sake of his career and yes, I believe that he should be. For his sake. If he feels that the franchise is no longer one in which he wants to be involved with, then a parting of ways would serve both equally well. He would do well elsewhere and the team would get a good return. It seems like a win-win situation.

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03-04-2013, 04:30 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by rocky7 View Post
The question was should Alex O. be traded for the sake of his career and yes, I believe that he should be. For his sake. If he feels that the franchise is no longer one in which he wants to be involved with, then a parting of ways would serve both equally well. He would do well elsewhere and the team would get a good return. It seems like a win-win situation.
If that is the case F him. Let him rot here with this miserable organization.

If he cant, as a professional, give his best regardless of his feelings, then why should he be rewarded for giving up.

Look at Nash. He tried 100% till the day he was traded, even after making it known he wanted out.

If you're right and Ovi is really that much of a baby as to stop working if he doesnt like things, then he deserves to have his career ended in shame.

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03-04-2013, 06:10 PM
  #148
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The main problem with Ovechkin is that he doesn't move his feet enough. Sure his shot and hands have also declined but he still would be a top player in the league if he moved his feet more.

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03-04-2013, 07:21 PM
  #149
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The main problem with Ovechkin is that he doesn't move his feet enough. Sure his shot and hands have also declined but he still would be a top player in the league if he moved his feet more.
There's a lot of truth to this.

He's always spent too much time in "energy-saving" mode. And there's no excuse for a guy of his power to lose like 95% of board battles. It was net positive when he scored in bunches, but now he should have more incentive to improve the rest of his game.

I think the Caps org did a poor job sort of standing up to him and making him lose some bad habits early on. At this point, he's a grown man, the only way he's really gonna change is by somehow finding motivation within himself. Possible but unlikely..

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03-04-2013, 07:27 PM
  #150
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There's a lot of truth to this.

He's always spent too much time in "energy-saving" mode. And there's no excuse for a guy of his power to lose like 95% of board battles. It was net positive when he scored in bunches, but now he should have more incentive to improve the rest of his game.

I think the Caps org did a poor job sort of standing up to him and making him lose some bad habits early on. At this point, he's a grown man, the only way he's really gonna change is by somehow finding motivation within himself. Possible but unlikely..
I strongly believe Oates has a strategy for this. 27 isn't all grown up.

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