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The Winger Acquisition Thread | Part III: In Search of Wingers with Reverent Hands

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Old
02-10-2013, 01:05 PM
  #251
Darth Vitale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilgro View Post
You guys should go after MacArthur. Good player, kind of lost in the mix in Toronto, especially when Lupul comes back. He would look good with either Sid/Kunitz or Geno/Neal. Could probably be had relatively cheap too
His name has been bounced around a few times but Kulemin seems to be the player most Pens fans think would be the best fit. Maybe Shero will acquire them both.


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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
Any one on that line is going to become a whipping boy.
Enough with the whipping boy talk. Boychuk isn't even close to whipping boy status. Just ask Tyler Kennedy (he needs to be traded).

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02-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #252
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Damien Brunner sounds good right about now. Wish the pens would of signed him.

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02-10-2013, 01:20 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
His name has been bounced around a few times but Kulemin seems to be the player most Pens fans think would be the best fit. Maybe Shero will acquire them both.
I'd love to get them both. But don't see that happening. And am not that choosy about who we add at this point... we need at least 1 winger... but 2 would be preferable.

Maatta, 2nd, TK, Blueger (for MacA & Kuly)? I don't see it without us adding... and would not want to add our 1st (and remove something), or add another one of our D prospects. Even if they sent Holzer back to us (who I think would be great here)

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Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
Damien Brunner sounds good right about now. Wish the pens would of signed him.
We tried. He choose Detroit. It's like Schultz choosing Edmonton... There's not a lot we can do.

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02-10-2013, 01:24 PM
  #254
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MacArthur is not an upgrade on Dupuis. Dupuis is a legitimate top 6 winger at this point, and I don't think enough people realize that around here. The offensive improvements to his game over the past two years have been strong.

Points in last 94 games (last season + this):

Dupuis: 67
Nash: 66
Ryder: 68
Perry: 66
Lucic: 66

I could go on, but you get the picture. To do that - plus PK - at a $1.5M cap hit is insane. I guess he would look good on the 3rd line, but so would any of these other wingers being mentioned. Pascal is guaranteed to produce whereas others are based on speculation.

EDIT: this doesn't even take into account the fact that Dupuis gets basically zero PP time whereas those others are able to rack up points there. Dupuis is by far the best 5-on-5 producer on that list.


Last edited by Nietzsche Zone Play: 02-10-2013 at 01:30 PM.
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02-10-2013, 01:25 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
He'd instantly be our 2nd/3rd best winger.
Sad, but true. He isnt doing a whole lot for Toronto this year. I assume he is a third liner for them. I really dont know if he would make a huge difference over guys like Kennedy. He might just be another 3rd line tweener, we really dont need anymore bottom 6 players on this team.

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02-10-2013, 01:31 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
MacArthur is not an upgrade on Dupuis. Dupuis is a legitimate top 6 winger at this point, and I don't think enough people realize that around here. The offensive improvements to his game over the past two years have been strong.

Points in last 94 games (last season + this):

Dupuis: 67
Nash: 66
Ryder: 68
Perry: 66
Lucic: 66

I could go on, but you get the picture. To do that - plus PK - at a $1.5M cap hit is insane. I guess he would look good on the 3rd line, but so would any of these other wingers being mentioned. Pascal is guaranteed to produce whereas others are based on speculation.
There is a lot more to a forward than production and I don't think enough people realize that around here. Dupuis is a solid player, but his production doesn't seem to change much based on his linemates. He was producing just fine with Staal and Sullivan last year. And on Sid's line, he just doesn't draw any attention away from Sid. It allows him to get open and score at a decent rate, but it doesn't help our team as much as someone who can draw defenders to him thus creating space for Sid while still putting up the same production. Or being better at puck possession or a lot of other things.

I think Dupuis is borderline top 6. I think he's a perfect 3rd line wing who can jump up in case of injuries.

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02-10-2013, 01:35 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
There is a lot more to a forward than production and I don't think enough people realize that around here. Dupuis is a solid player, but his production doesn't seem to change much based on his linemates. He was producing just fine with Staal and Sullivan last year. And on Sid's line, he just doesn't draw any attention away from Sid. It allows him to get open and score at a decent rate, but it doesn't help our team as much as someone who can draw defenders to him thus creating space for Sid while still putting up the same production. Or being better at puck possession or a lot of other things.

I think Dupuis is borderline top 6. I think he's a perfect 3rd line wing who can jump up in case of injuries.
I realize there's more to it, but I think Dupuis does the little things better than most other options being thrown out there - hence the stats comparison. Kunitz clears the space, Dupuis focuses on the D and forecheck, and Sid is able to do whatever he wants.

There's a reason Sid has 140 points over his last 82 games...

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02-10-2013, 01:36 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Riptide View Post
I'd love to get them both. But don't see that happening. And am not that choosy about who we add at this point... we need at least 1 winger... but 2 would be preferable.

Maatta, 2nd, TK, Blueger (for MacA & Kuly)? I don't see it without us adding... and would not want to add our 1st (and remove something), or add another one of our D prospects. Even if they sent Holzer back to us (who I think would be great here)



We tried. He choose Detroit. It's like Schultz choosing Edmonton... There's not a lot we can do.
Toronto has actually looked half decent this year if there in or somewhat close to the playoffs at the deadline cant see them trading away any players they haven't made the playoffs 4ever. My new favorite team after the pens is anybody whos playing calgary I think if Iggy gets traded it will be to the pens. I wanna see calgary out of it ASAP

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02-10-2013, 01:40 PM
  #259
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There's a reason Sid has 140 points over his last 82 games...
Yeah. Because Sid produces no matter who he plays with. We can put him in a position to dominate in the postseason with one upgrade on his line.

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02-10-2013, 01:40 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
EDIT: this doesn't even take into account the fact that Dupuis gets basically zero PP time whereas those others are able to rack up points there. Dupuis is by far the best 5-on-5 producer on that list.
Dupuis doesn't get PP time because he's not good at it. The guy has broken 40 points twice in his career. Yes, he was awesome last year. Let's see if he ever does that again. He never did it before so I'm not holding my breath. To say he's better than a guy like Perry in any way offensively is just a ridiculous thing to say.


Last edited by Ogrezilla: 02-10-2013 at 01:47 PM.
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02-10-2013, 01:44 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Dupuis doesn't get PP time because he's not good at it. The guy has broken 40 points twice in his career. Yes, he was awesome last year. Let's see if he ever does that again. He never did it before so I'm not holding my breath. To say he's better than a guy like Perry in any way offensively is just a ridiculous thing to say.
In the past season+, has has been better offensively 5-on-5. That's all I'm saying really. Obviously Perry is in another tier.

I would love Perry here, but could not imagine the outcry once people realized he is the league leader in Stupid Penalties Taken. If you think Malkin is bad at that...

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02-10-2013, 01:46 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
In the past season+, has has been better offensively 5-on-5. That's all I'm saying really. Obviously Perry is in another tier.

I would love Perry here, but could not imagine the outcry once people realized he is the league leader in Stupid Penalties Taken. If you think Malkin is bad at that...
lets see those numbers for 2 complete seasons.

Dupuis: 96
Nash: 125
Ryder: 103
Perry: 158
Lucic: 123

all I'm saying is that we have no reason to believe last year was anything but an anomaly for Dupuis. Actually, no that's not all I'm saying. Even with your production numbers, every guy on that list was a considerably better offensive player than Dupuis last year. They just do more to help a team win than Dupuis does in that position. Obviously his PK and defense are pluses for him. And they would be awesome on the third line.

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02-10-2013, 01:50 PM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche Zone Play View Post
In the past season+, has has been better offensively 5-on-5. That's all I'm saying really. Obviously Perry is in another tier.

I would love Perry here, but could not imagine the outcry once people realized he is the league leader in Stupid Penalties Taken. If you think Malkin is bad at that...
Wait what? Acquiring Perry would be absurd, could the Penguins fit him in under the cap in 13-14? Also what would you have to give for Perry? I feel like it'd be cost prohibitive.

But Kunitz - Crosby - Perry ; Boychuk - Malkin - Neal. Gross. (I'm sure I might have missed someone obvious to take Boychuk's spot... )

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02-10-2013, 01:52 PM
  #264
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FWIW, I was beating the PA Parenteau drum early in the off-season as a possible acquisition to alleviate the winger mess and watching him this year just confirms what I felt last season.

He's a guy that proved he could play with good forwards with the Islanders, was not over the hill and his cap hit situation isn't terribly overpaid, 4 years at 4 mil for a guy who scored nearly 70 points last year and had a really strong second-half the year before that. He can create shots for his line-mates and take some of the play-making responsibility off a guy like Sid. It just kills me a bit that the team had the cap-room to sign a guy like Parenteau and decided to go all in on a situation where they were going to likely strike out on. Suter/Parise were a complete longshot the entire time and now the team still has the same problem they've had the last 7-8 years in regards to wings.

Seeing Parenteau continue to play well in Colorado is just a bit frustrating when he could of been the answer for the team for a reasonable price if they weren't so wrapped up in the Parise/Suter pipedream.

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02-10-2013, 01:54 PM
  #265
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Originally Posted by KanetoToews2883 View Post
Wait what? Acquiring Perry would be absurd, could the Penguins fit him in under the cap in 13-14? Also what would you have to give for Perry? I feel like it'd be cost prohibitive.

But Kunitz - Crosby - Perry ; Boychuk - Malkin - Neal. Gross. (I'm sure I might have missed someone obvious to take Boychuk's spot... )
No we could not afford perry I heard dregger say perry will try to get the max and someone will give it to him.

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02-10-2013, 01:55 PM
  #266
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
lets see those numbers for 2 complete seasons.

Dupuis: 96
Nash: 125
Ryder: 103
Perry: 158
Lucic: 123

all I'm saying is that we have no reason to believe last year was anything but an anomaly for Dupuis. Actually, no that's not all I'm saying. Even with your production numbers, every guy on that list was a considerably better offensive player than Dupuis last year. They just do more to help a team win than Dupuis does in that position. Obviously his PK and defense are pluses for him. And they would be awesome on the third line.
Not disagreeing with too much of this, but wanted to point out that I only went back to last year to highlight another point, which was "The offensive improvements to his game over the past two years have been strong."

We'll see if it holds up. So far this season, I would say that it has.

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02-10-2013, 01:56 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
His name has been bounced around a few times but Kulemin seems to be the player most Pens fans think would be the best fit. Maybe Shero will acquire them both.




Enough with the whipping boy talk. Boychuk isn't even close to whipping boy status. Just ask Tyler Kennedy (he needs to be traded).
Or Tyler Kennedy needs to be moved up a line because I feel him being the only skilled player on the 3rd line, limits his effectiveness.

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02-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #268
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Or Tyler Kennedy needs to be moved up a line because I feel him being the only skilled player on the 3rd line, limits his effectiveness.
being the least skilled guy in the top 6 would limit everyone's effectiveness.

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02-10-2013, 02:20 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Sivek View Post
FWIW, I was beating the PA Parenteau drum early in the off-season as a possible acquisition to alleviate the winger mess and watching him this year just confirms what I felt last season.

He's a guy that proved he could play with good forwards with the Islanders, was not over the hill and his cap hit situation isn't terribly overpaid, 4 years at 4 mil for a guy who scored nearly 70 points last year and had a really strong second-half the year before that. He can create shots for his line-mates and take some of the play-making responsibility off a guy like Sid. It just kills me a bit that the team had the cap-room to sign a guy like Parenteau and decided to go all in on a situation where they were going to likely strike out on. Suter/Parise were a complete longshot the entire time and now the team still has the same problem they've had the last 7-8 years in regards to wings.

Seeing Parenteau continue to play well in Colorado is just a bit frustrating when he could of been the answer for the team for a reasonable price if they weren't so wrapped up in the Parise/Suter pipedream.
I hear you. I feel like the pens had no realistic chance at signing Suter and a small chance at signing Parise. It sucks because it took them so long to make their decision to sign with minny. The only forward available by then was Semin. I still think he was the perfect signing, a one year deal. We had the cap room and it would not have cost any assets.

Everyone claims we don't have enough cap room to acquire a respectable winger but Shero obviously had some kind of plan if he intended to sign Parise and maybe even Suter.

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02-10-2013, 02:22 PM
  #270
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Nikolai kulemin to pens for 2nd + samuelsson
devin setoguchi to pens for tk.

Seto-crsoby-kunitz
kulemin-malkin-neal
cooke-sutter-dupuis
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02-10-2013, 02:24 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by mr sidney crosby View Post
Nikolai kulemin to pens for 2nd + samuelsson
devin setoguchi to pens for tk.
if that was the price to acquire those two, they'd already be on this team.

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02-10-2013, 02:26 PM
  #272
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if that was the price to acquire those two, they'd already be on this team.
true story

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02-10-2013, 02:39 PM
  #273
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Not sure of a better place to put it, an d I don't want to start a new thread for this, so I'll make it "relevant" by saying that I brought up trading PMart earlier in this thread.

Here's a piece on him by ESPN: http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/89...ed-easy-option

A little interesting, mostly feel-good. No mention of Eggs.

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02-10-2013, 02:51 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Dupuis doesn't get PP time because he's not good at it. The guy has broken 40 points twice in his career. Yes, he was awesome last year. Let's see if he ever does that again. He never did it before so I'm not holding my breath. To say he's better than a guy like Perry in any way offensively is just a ridiculous thing to say.
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
lets see those numbers for 2 complete seasons.

Dupuis: 96
Nash: 125
Ryder: 103
Perry: 158
Lucic: 123

all I'm saying is that we have no reason to believe last year was anything but an anomaly for Dupuis. Actually, no that's not all I'm saying. Even with your production numbers, every guy on that list was a considerably better offensive player than Dupuis last year. They just do more to help a team win than Dupuis does in that position. Obviously his PK and defense are pluses for him. And they would be awesome on the third line.
Now compare what all those guys made over two seasons. Does it make sense to take on that salary for the difference in production?

He's on pace for 32 this shorten season, and if it was a full season he's on a 54 point pace.

You can't argue Dupuis at 1.5 is well worth the difference of paying 5.0/7.0 to the others for nominal gain point wise while suffering more defensively. I don't doubt Shero's going to get someone, but I highly doubt it'll be high priced top forwards. I wouldn't see them make that kind of move until they have Geno & Letang locked down.

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02-10-2013, 02:59 PM
  #275
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Not sure of a better place to put it, an d I don't want to start a new thread for this, so I'll make it "relevant" by saying that I brought up trading PMart earlier in this thread.

Here's a piece on him by ESPN: http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/89...ed-easy-option

A little interesting, mostly feel-good. No mention of Eggs.
Bourque a D-man?

I never knew.

Good read none the less.

Thanks, IC.

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