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The Winger Acquisition Thread | Part III: In Search of Wingers with Reverent Hands

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02-14-2013, 10:18 AM
  #751
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Well...if Kennedy is part of the deal, then his cap hit doesn't affect the team that much, however, I'm sure the Blue Jackets wouldn't have a problem taking some of that salary.
Why would they eat some of the caphit?

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02-14-2013, 10:18 AM
  #752
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We def need a winger for geno line but i dont get u guys who think we need a winger for sid. Sids line has been scoring and getting great chances for a while now except the devil games. Kunitz has 16 points and top 10 in scoring. Dupuis has 9 points and gets no PP time. Not sure what else u guys want out of his wingers. You guys undervalue kunitz and dupuis so much.

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02-14-2013, 10:30 AM
  #753
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As long as Kennedy and his salary is going to CBJ, I'm fine with Umberger on the cheap. Otherwise not.

I don't think it will happen though. If they get rid of Umberger it's probably for the sole purpose of freeing up space, so like others have said seems unlikely they'd agree to take a substantial portion of his hit. But who knows. New GM there so anything's possible.

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02-14-2013, 10:35 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
We def need a winger for geno line but i dont get u guys who think we need a winger for sid. Sids line has been scoring and getting great chances for a while now except the devil games. Kunitz has 16 points and top 10 in scoring. Dupuis has 9 points and gets no PP time. Not sure what else u guys want out of his wingers. You guys undervalue kunitz and dupuis so much.
We shouldn't stop looking for the winger for Crosby until we have that winger. Dupuis and Kunitz are nice players but both are over 30 and both are more 20-25 goal 3rd wheels than anything.


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02-14-2013, 10:47 AM
  #755
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In a perfect world where all the studs we might acquire were under contract beyond this year, Letang could bring exactly the kind of winger we need without any further payment. Perry, Ryan, Tarasenko... take your pick.

The problem is few teams ever get a Norris caliber D; they are more rare commodities than even 40G wingers. Even with all our stud prospects, the odds any one of them become Norris caliber, are pretty slim. Much slimmer than if we were to go bonzo trading for 1st round draft picks this year, and drafted 3 or 4 guys in the top 25 of this "deep draft", and having one of those guys become a 30-40G scorer.

Trading Letang is not quite but almost as dumb an idea as trading Malkin. Just shouldn't happen so not worth talking about. The only way you could argue it is if he's asking for way too big a cap hit (no reason to suspect or suggest that yet), or if you fear recurring injury problems, but those are pretty iffy arguments.
This would be my thought as well. I just wanted to see what the responses looked like. Sometimes it is interesting to think how a few moves could result in a very different looking team.

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02-14-2013, 10:52 AM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Captain Hook View Post
We shouldn't stop looking for the winger for Crosby until we have that winger. Dupuis and Kunitz are nice players but both are over 30 and both are more 20-25 goal 3 wheels than anything.
Exactly. Aside from the fact you do whatever you can to put Sid in the best position to succeed, Kunitz and Dupuis will be turning 34 this year.

Even if Benett works out, I want a guy with some size on Sid's line. Move Kunitz back down with Geno, Dupuis with Sutter. Pack TK's bags. And we're set.

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02-14-2013, 11:07 AM
  #757
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I'd prefer a seasoned winger to come in. However, I'd be okay with trading Despres to a team that is forward heavy and in need of a defencemen. As much as I like Despres, I would be fine with moving him to a team like Ottawa, fresh off of losing Karlsson, and then calling Morrow back up.

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02-14-2013, 11:08 AM
  #758
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I'd prefer a seasoned winger to come in. However, I'd be okay with trading Despres to a team that is forward heavy and in need of a defencemen. As much as I lik Despres, I would be fine with moving him to a team like Ottawa, fresh off of losing Karlsson, and then calling Morrow back up.
that's ridiculous imo

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02-14-2013, 11:23 AM
  #759
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Jiri Tlusty has SOME skill, though. Bad comparison. A better comparison is probably Dwyer playing on your second line. And yeah I suppose it CAN be a solution, but the Penguins have a general lack of skill beyond the top three players on the team.
I understand your point, but I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I won't comment on Cooke as you guys are much more of an expert on him. Tlusty does have some skill, but it's really the other stuff he brings to that line (defense, forechecking, backchecking, crashing the net) that is what makes him most effective on that line. Also, Cooke and Tlusty are much bigger (200+ lbs) and more physical than Dwyer (175lbs) and they are much better scorers than Dwyer. Dwyer isn't as effective or as skilled as either Tlusty or Cooke.

Anyhow, You are right that Tlusty does add some skill so I get what you are saying, but even when he's not scoring, it's the other things that are similar to what Cooke brings that makes him successful IMO. Dwyer is a step below both of those guys IMO. The poster who commented that moving Cooke up there hurts the 3rd line so that's another piece of it.

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02-14-2013, 11:27 AM
  #760
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that's ridiculous imo
That's ironic because I find your brief reply with no explaination ridiculous.

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02-14-2013, 11:38 AM
  #761
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Originally Posted by One87 View Post
I'd prefer a seasoned winger to come in. However, I'd be okay with trading Despres to a team that is forward heavy and in need of a defencemen. As much as I like Despres, I would be fine with moving him to a team like Ottawa, fresh off of losing Karlsson, and then calling Morrow back up.
What exactly is Ottawa going to trade us? Spezza is gone, Michalek I doubt they move and Alfredsson will probably not waive and accept a trade. We're not good trading partners IMO unless it's moving a player for a draft pick which I don't see why Shero would do that

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02-14-2013, 11:55 AM
  #762
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Why would they eat some of the caphit?
Why not? What do they need it for? They're a rebuilding team, if they can get a 1st round pick for a guy while paying $1-1.5M a year on his salary.

I wouldn't ask them to eat most of the cap hit. His cap hit is $4.6M, having them take $1-1.5M a year off so the Penguins can pay him $3.1M or $3.6M a year is doable for both teams IMO.

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02-14-2013, 12:28 PM
  #763
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Originally Posted by Le Magnifique 66 View Post
What exactly is Ottawa going to trade us? Spezza is gone, Michalek I doubt they move and Alfredsson will probably not waive and accept a trade. We're not good trading partners IMO unless it's moving a player for a draft pick which I don't see why Shero would do that
Yeah, I know. That is exactly why I started my statement with: "I prefer a seasoned winger", knowing that we wouldn't get one from them. With their injuries, it would have to be a younger player. Besides this, a player of Spezza's caliber would not even be a talking point with Despres on the table. However, a young, talented forward, who can play for years, could be.

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02-14-2013, 12:39 PM
  #764
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We should try and get Da Costa and turn him into a winger. He's so silky smooth when getting it on another guy's stick... and he finds open ice so well. I think he's a stud in the making. Sorry, I just noticed Da Costa a lot in that game. He has some soft hands. Probably the best looking forward on both teams in the last two periods. And no, I don't think he's better than Crosby, Malkin, or Neal. lol

P.S. I know it won't happen... but damn the last few games I caught Da Costa on TV he has been the Sens best forward. hehe

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02-14-2013, 01:29 PM
  #765
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https://twitter.com/AGretz/statuses/301826412661313536

Two Chicago scouts at Pitt-Ott game. Minnesota and Anaheim other Western conference teams in attendance tonight.

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02-14-2013, 01:33 PM
  #766
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Forget Umberger. EVEN IF the Jackets were to accept Tyler Kennedy, that's still a bad deal for us. Kennedy's contract is up this season. Umberger still has FOUR more seasons left on it at $4.6 million. That's albatross territory.

He's a horrible idea.

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02-14-2013, 01:36 PM
  #767
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I don't condone trading for Umberger, but I think if Shero did deem that a contract he'd be willing to take on, I do believe Umberger has the skill and ability to complement talent well enough to come close to living up to his salary.

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02-14-2013, 01:37 PM
  #768
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Recent trades, waivers, etc.

I have been thinking on this. We have sold low on some players, admittedly fringe players, but low none the less, because despite the recent gnashing of teeth about their play, they are a legit cup challenger. Meaning that they cannot afford to give a Tangradi the time to develop where he should develop, on the 3rd or 4th line. They do not have roster spot to showcase a Strait and get something of value for him. Granted neither of those players are likely to amount to much that will make us cry over the loss in the future. But I wonder if down the road we are going to be selling a Morrow for a third round pick, a Derrick Pouliot for a third, etc because we do not have the roster spots for everyone and prospects are not worth a fraction of what legit proven NHL players are. Look at Despres and Bort. They are worth double what they were two weeks ago, merely because they showed well in the NHL. We do not have the roster spots, or the ice time, to develop what is in the system to hope to get fair value for them. I wonder if down the road it is going to seriously bite us in the ass.

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02-14-2013, 01:41 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I have been thinking on this. We have sold low on some players, admittedly fringe players, but low none the less, because despite the recent gnashing of teeth about their play, they are a legit cup challenger. Meaning that they cannot afford to give a Tangradi the time to develop where he should develop, on the 3rd or 4th line. They do not have roster spot to showcase a Strait and get something of value for him. Granted neither of those players are likely to amount to much that will make us cry over the loss in the future. But I wonder if down the road we are going to be selling a Morrow for a third round pick, a Derrick Pouliot for a third, etc because we do not have the roster spots for everyone and prospects are not worth a fraction of what legit proven NHL players are. Look at Despres and Bort. They are worth double what they were two weeks ago, merely because they showed well in the NHL. We do not have the roster spots, or the ice time, to develop what is in the system to hope to get fair value for them. I wonder if down the road it is going to seriously bite us in the ass.
Agreed.

Development and winning are NOT mutually exclusive concepts. The sooner this organization gets that, the sooner we'll be back on the podium.

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02-14-2013, 01:43 PM
  #770
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I have been thinking on this. We have sold low on some players, admittedly fringe players, but low none the less, because despite the recent gnashing of teeth about their play, they are a legit cup challenger. Meaning that they cannot afford to give a Tangradi the time to develop where he should develop, on the 3rd or 4th line. They do not have roster spot to showcase a Strait and get something of value for him. Granted neither of those players are likely to amount to much that will make us cry over the loss in the future. But I wonder if down the road we are going to be selling a Morrow for a third round pick, a Derrick Pouliot for a third, etc because we do not have the roster spots for everyone and prospects are not worth a fraction of what legit proven NHL players are. Look at Despres and Bort. They are worth double what they were two weeks ago, merely because they showed well in the NHL. We do not have the roster spots, or the ice time, to develop what is in the system to hope to get fair value for them. I wonder if down the road it is going to seriously bite us in the ass.

Very good point however, given Martin's age and salary cap hit as well as Orpik's & Engelland's age and style of play (takes a toll on their bodies), I would assume that those D will eventually replace them.

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02-14-2013, 01:50 PM
  #771
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Strait and Tangradi are not the caliber of prospects that Morrow and Pouliot are though. It's understandable why they weren't priorities. Despres has actually been kept up here when he didn't have to be kept up here. I think that shows you that certain prospects with really high ceilings are a priority.

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02-14-2013, 01:56 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Why not? What do they need it for? They're a rebuilding team, if they can get a 1st round pick for a guy while paying $1-1.5M a year on his salary.

I wouldn't ask them to eat most of the cap hit. His cap hit is $4.6M, having them take $1-1.5M a year off so the Penguins can pay him $3.1M or $3.6M a year is doable for both teams IMO.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I got the idea that they were a budget team that was struggling financially. Unless they needed the extra cap to stay above the floor, I don't get why they would move a valuable vet AND continue paying part of his salary. Plus, Umberger isn't on the top of my list to be trading 1st round picks for.

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02-14-2013, 01:57 PM
  #773
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Close this thread, Beau Dangles has arrived

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02-14-2013, 01:58 PM
  #774
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Yeah, I know. That is exactly why I started my statement with: "I prefer a seasoned winger", knowing that we wouldn't get one from them. With their injuries, it would have to be a younger player. Besides this, a player of Spezza's caliber would not even be a talking point with Despres on the table. However, a young, talented forward, who can play for years, could be.
For example?

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02-14-2013, 02:02 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Jaded-Fan View Post
I have been thinking on this. We have sold low on some players, admittedly fringe players, but low none the less, because despite the recent gnashing of teeth about their play, they are a legit cup challenger. Meaning that they cannot afford to give a Tangradi the time to develop where he should develop, on the 3rd or 4th line. They do not have roster spot to showcase a Strait and get something of value for him. Granted neither of those players are likely to amount to much that will make us cry over the loss in the future. But I wonder if down the road we are going to be selling a Morrow for a third round pick, a Derrick Pouliot for a third, etc because we do not have the roster spots for everyone and prospects are not worth a fraction of what legit proven NHL players are. Look at Despres and Bort. They are worth double what they were two weeks ago, merely because they showed well in the NHL. We do not have the roster spots, or the ice time, to develop what is in the system to hope to get fair value for them. I wonder if down the road it is going to seriously bite us in the ass.
So what's the resolution? Should we just trade our draft picks every year? I really don't think it's going to be that big of an issue. Orpik and Martin will be gone when Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot are all ready (assuming they all make it). Niskanen may be traded. The likelihood that we trade the top prospects for peanuts is very small. It will likely be the Samuelson's of the world that we are dumping for late rounders.


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