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Does Rielly have the Potential to be the Leafs Karlsson?

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Old
02-08-2013, 02:17 PM
  #51
Frankie
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Originally Posted by Pi View Post
You dont have to dominate on your WHL team to have an impact on our NHL team.
you don't? if you're going to be a star, impact nhler, like erik karlsson, shouldn't you be dominating in junior hockey?

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90% of the people haven't watched him play and see his numbers (which are spectacular) and say "He's not PPG, that means he is not better than last year"
his number are spectacular? 38 points in 42 games isn't spectacular in junior hockey.

has anyone actually argued that he's not better than last year? i assume he's much better than he was last year. almost all junior players make big improvements from age 17 to 18. i assume rielly isn't no different.

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02-08-2013, 02:18 PM
  #52
Christ
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Very early to be making this kind of comparison. Yes, Reilly has the raw talent to be a franchise defenseman in a very similar mold to that of Karlsson but expecting him to develop this well is folly. There are thousands of examples of NHL players who have the raw skills to become elite players but very few make it. Antropov for instance had the size and talent to be one of the best players in the game but did not develop into such a player.

It takes an extremely rare focused individual in the perfect environment to grow from star quality talent to superstar caliber player. Don't expect Reilly to be a superstar as the chances are he will not make it. Let him develop without stupid expectations. It would be foolish to get mad at him for instance for not developing into a Karlsson because he turns out to be a Kaberle.

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02-08-2013, 02:23 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Don't bother.

Most Leaf fans here:

Step 1: WHL.ca

Step 2: Check if Moose Jaw is playing tonight.

Step 3: Go to the website after the game and see how many points he had.

0-1 points, or minus player: Rielly was terrible tonight. 1+ points or plus player: Rielly was fantastic!

Leaf fans are far more attached to numbers. Rielly better be PPG or Nonis better trade him quickly, because he's not going to be much better than MAB. His trade value drops every time he doesn't put up points.
What else are we supposed to base our opinions on? We've watched him have an underwhelming performance in the WJC - in which everyone has their own reason why he didn't play well - and we saw him absolutely look like the best player on the ice in the Summer Super Series and the Russia vs CHL game.

There's few to little articles objectively written about him. The most any of us can do is look at highlights. I live in Toronto it's not as if I can head out to Moose Jaw and watch him.

That all being said, from what I've seen so far I've liked. Although I think this year he's been very conservative with pinching into the play. Especially in the WJC.

PPG for a defenseman after getting drafted is very good. Not sure what Stephen is on about.

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02-08-2013, 02:24 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
There's a reason why their GM did not want to trade him for anything, literally.
if their gm didn't want to trade rielly, he's an idiot.

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02-08-2013, 02:25 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
you don't? if you're going to be a star, impact nhler, like erik karlsson, shouldn't you be dominating in junior hockey?


his number are spectacular? 38 points in 42 games isn't spectacular in junior hockey.

has anyone actually argued that he's not better than last year? i assume he's much better than he was last year. almost all junior players make big improvements from age 17 to 18. i assume rielly isn't no different.
That impact NHL'er Erik Karlsson had 10 points in 45 games when he was drafted He surely took the SEL by storm just like David Rundblad who had PPG in SEL ~2 years ago.

Who is better right now? The guy that had 10 points in the SEL or the guy that had 50 points in the SEL?

38 points in 42 games is spectacular for a defenseman in the WHL.

None of the defenseman that are drafted in 2012 come even close to that.

Reinhart? No. Dumba? Noooooo. Ryan Murray? Nah..

Those are defenseman drafted right before or right after Rielly.

Nail Yakupov went 1st overall and he did NOTHING for the Sting in the playoffs. They didn't even make the playoffs with Alex Galchenyuk and Yakupov putting up great points in their rookie years.

They are playing great in the NHL right now. So much for dominating the OHL and helping your team win.

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02-08-2013, 02:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
So people think his modestly good MJ performance equates to Norris calibre NHL success? To have justified that first overall quality hype by Burke he needed to have shone a lot brighter, IMO.
He wasn't given a fair chance at hte WJC's.

Or did we watch different tournaments?

The one half game where he got regular shifts he scored a goal and added an assist.

Poor kid sat the the first 7min of one game. I guess Spott was matching lines or something but it was pathetic. ****ing disgrace really after Spott didn't play him during selection camp because he said Rielly had a spot sewn up.

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02-08-2013, 02:27 PM
  #57
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If Carlyle is going to be coaching the Leafs long term, no, Rielly won't be comparable to Karlsson. Carlyle doesn't seem to let his offensive defensemen rush the puck and take chances. A huge reason why Karlsson is the player he is today is because of Paul Maclean. He lets Karlsson do whatever he wants on the ice, and is basically a fourth forward during 5 on 5 play.

I always thought Keith is a good comparison to Rielly, although I think Rielly will be a better offensive player. Maybe a better defensive version of Dan Boyle.

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02-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
if their gm didn't want to trade rielly, he's an idiot.
Like it or not, he's in the business of trying to win.

Losing Rielly probably makes the Warriors the worst team in the CHL. With him in the lineup, they are fighting for a playoff spot. When he was gone to the WJC's, they had one of the worst losing slides. He came back and they started to win again.

Again, I know some can't grasp the concept of watching someone before making assumptions on level of play, but this is a little much. Statistics is an important factor into evaluating talent, but so is watching the player.

You can't make this argument that he isn't playing well or dominating because he doesn't have the amount of points of a dominating player --- just like statistics can easily mask a players worth (especially from the Junior level) as he doesn't have other things in his game to translate to the pro level. He's been so much more than that.

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02-08-2013, 02:29 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
I couldn't agree more. Most fans will also be expecting him to come in and win the Calder next year. Which in reality he will probably be back with Moose Jaw. One reason I am so happy they sent him down and didn't even let him play his five games. Rielly will be an awesome player for us, people just need to let him take a few years to develop to that player. It was a terrible choice for Burke to associate him with the number one pick at all. Put way to much pressure on him.

IMO when Phaneuf is 29 and Rielly is entering the league as a rookie, that pairing will suprise a lot of people. It'll be like the Rielly-Hamilton pairing, except Phaneuf will be a 10 year veteran that will really help Rielly develop.
if he's back in moose jaw next year, what would you expect his stats to look like?

and you expect him to step into the nhl and be on the top pairing right away?

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02-08-2013, 02:30 PM
  #60
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Nope

Seriously though - although I can't see him being as good as Karlsson just because he'd need such growth, I never imagined Karlsson would hit this level either. Reilly will be a solid, 50+ pt dman though imo. I strongly believe this.

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02-08-2013, 02:31 PM
  #61
charliolemieux
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
if their gm didn't want to trade rielly, he's an idiot.
Rielly is the only reason people buy tickets for MJ. That is why he won't be traded.

Might be a blessing in disguise. Could mean Rielly with the Marlies for an extended playoff run.

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02-08-2013, 02:37 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Don't bother.

Most Leaf fans here:

Step 1: WHL.ca

Step 2: Check if Moose Jaw is playing tonight.

Step 3: Go to the website after the game and see how many points he had.

0-1 points, or minus player: Rielly was terrible tonight. 1+ points or plus player: Rielly was fantastic!

Leaf fans are far more attached to numbers. Rielly better be PPG or Nonis better trade him quickly, because he's not going to be much better than MAB. His trade value drops every time he doesn't put up points.
Exactly.

People really need to comprehend the context of numbers in junior.

For example: the leading scorer in the WHL right now is Nicholas Petan. He has a whopping 94 points in 54 games, and he is 2013 draft eligible. BUT he is not being projected as a first rounder by anyone I have read so far. I am not knowledgeable enough to tell you why that is, perhaps it's because he is only 5'9, but it's an exhibit A example of why one should not put so much stock into just numbers for junior players. Also, his linemate Brendan Leipsic is 2nd in the WHL with 92 points in 51 games, but was only a 3rd rounder in the 2012 draft, and isn't getting much hype as a steal from that draft.

And just to put things into perspective, here are some numbers on how well some of the best D-men in the NHL did in junior the year after being drafted. Of course keep in mind, most of these guys played on much better teams and weren't coming off an ACL tear like Rielly:

-Alex Peitrangelo: 29 points in 36 games (OHL)
-Erik Karlsson: 5 points in 45 games (SEL)
-Shea Weber: 32 points in 60 games (WHL)
-PK Subban: 46 points in 58 games (OHL)

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Old
02-08-2013, 02:41 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Rielly is the only reason people buy tickets for MJ. That is why he won't be traded.

Might be a blessing in disguise. Could mean Rielly with the Marlies for an extended playoff run.
Which would be fantastic, hoping Rielly makes the leafs next year out of camp.

in regards to OP, Rielly has huge potential, but he's still building his game, so it's a little early to tell.

He's clearly got great skating(huge asset), great hockey IQ(again huge asset) and high-end offense. But he's still working on his more pure defensive game, which he seems to be getting better at.

Really glad we have a prospect like him in the system, now if only we can bring in a high end Centre prospect!

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02-08-2013, 02:43 PM
  #64
Frankie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
That impact NHL'er Erik Karlsson had 10 points in 45 games when he was drafted He surely took the SEL by storm just like David Rundblad who had PPG in SEL ~2 years ago.

Who is better right now? The guy that had 10 points in the SEL or the guy that had 50 points in the SEL?

38 points in 42 games is spectacular for a defenseman in the WHL.

None of the defenseman that are drafted in 2012 come even close to that.

Reinhart? No. Dumba? Noooooo. Ryan Murray? Nah..

Those are defenseman drafted right before or right after Rielly.

Nail Yakupov went 1st overall and he did NOTHING for the Sting in the playoffs. They didn't even make the playoffs with Alex Galchenyuk and Yakupov putting up great points in their rookie years.

They are playing great in the NHL right now. So much for dominating the OHL and helping your team win.
so what's the argument here? performance at the lower levels has absolutely no bearing on how a player might do in the nhl?

we can make no projections or predictions at all based on quality of play at a lower level?

karlsson had very poor numbers in his draft year. playing against men, of course. but, given your argument, he was also playing with men who were presumably much better than rielly's current teammates. given that, we should probably expect rielly to be much better than karlsson. that is, if we can make any projections whatsoever.

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02-08-2013, 02:44 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankie View Post
if he's back in moose jaw next year, what would you expect his stats to look like?

and you expect him to step into the nhl and be on the top pairing right away?
His stats will be better or worse then they are this year. I just care how he plays.

Who knows if it'll be the top pairing at that time. Just saying that Phaneuf would make a good partner for Rielly.

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02-08-2013, 02:48 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
Like it or not, he's in the business of trying to win.

Losing Rielly probably makes the Warriors the worst team in the CHL. With him in the lineup, they are fighting for a playoff spot. When he was gone to the WJC's, they had one of the worst losing slides. He came back and they started to win again.
junior teams trade their star players all the time for younger kids who will help them in the future. they're all in the business of trying to win.

if they're fighting for a playoff spot, i guess the team isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. because of course, we're told rielly can't do it all himself.

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02-08-2013, 02:50 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
Rielly is the only reason people buy tickets for MJ. That is why he won't be traded.
people go just to watch morgan rielly? really? the moose jaw warriors have been around a long time, i don't think its all about morgan rielly.

he won't be traded now because their trade deadline has long since passed.

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02-08-2013, 02:51 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
He's clearly stat watching. Look at his arguments:





If Rielly had, say, 5 more points he wouldn't be whining about him.

A D-man on a terrible team (with how many good players?) "settling under a poing a game" OH MY! HOW TERRIBLE!


Look at his team: http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/l...009992013.html

Terrible all throughout.
I think what's more impressive is that he's only a -1 holy crap is that team bad.

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02-08-2013, 02:56 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by calcal798 View Post
His stats will be better or worse then they are this year. I just care how he plays.
its a funny thing, when our prospects put up great numbers, we talk about it a lot and get very excited about it. the prospects thread is basically dedicated to that very thing.

seems when they put up great numbers, its an indication of how well they're playing. if they don't put up great numbers, its not an indication of how they're playing.

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02-08-2013, 02:59 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by philer Bozel View Post
After reading the Karlsson is best Player Thread on the main boards it got me thinking about Rielly and what he could be. Both are amazing skaters with high hockey IQ. Karlsson wasn't the best defensive defense man when he started although this season he's been very good in his own end. I think Reilly *could* take the same route as well. What do you guys think?
No. He will be Letang or similar not Karlson. Karlson has developed beyond expectations.

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02-08-2013, 03:01 PM
  #71
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No. He will be Letang or similar not Karlson. Karlson has developed beyond expectations.
blah blah blah... Karlsson ain't that great

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02-08-2013, 03:05 PM
  #72
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How many people thought that EK would be a future Norris Trophy winner? I doubt many people, if any, ever said that EK is going to be such a dominant force and win Norris Trophies.

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02-08-2013, 03:09 PM
  #73
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I see more Duncan Keith.

Karlsson is something else...

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02-08-2013, 03:10 PM
  #74
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its possible... Rielly has the tools to be a very good PMD

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02-08-2013, 03:38 PM
  #75
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I like Reilly and that would be nice but i doubt it. It will be such a long time before we see him, the leafs like to keep their prospects in ahl for 500 years and either ruin or almost ruin there confidence. They almost wrecked Kadri, almost wrecked frattin as well. Kadri was reaady to play in the nhl at least 2 years ago, ron wilson just didnt like rookies.

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