HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Notices

Does Rielly have the Potential to be the Leafs Karlsson?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-08-2013, 07:38 PM
  #101
philer Bozel
It's Playoff Time!
 
philer Bozel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Windsor, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Well, you had to change your post, but considering that Burke called him their projected first overall, most talented player in the draft, comparisons to Erik Karlsson, I say no. He's been overhyped compared to what he has delivered this season.
I changed my post to fix a spelling mistake because I was on my phone. But fair enough. I feel like people aren't reading the title very well. It's not do you think Rielly will become Karlsson but does Rielly have the potential to be The Leafs Karlsson. That #1 D who can rush the puck up, Make great first Passes and score a **** load of points.

philer Bozel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 07:41 PM
  #102
Ricky Bobby
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,430
vCash: 500
Erik Karlsson is a bad comparison.

I think he'll be more like Bobby Orr and completely change the game.

Ricky Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 07:52 PM
  #103
brent100
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6
vCash: 500
Rielly does not need to be the next coming of Leetch of Neidermeyer or whatever, if he can contribute a solid 40-50 points, not right away but after getting a season or two under his belt, and be solid in his own end I will be thrilled.

what I love about him:
Skating is incredible, honestly if he was on the team right now he might be their best skater. The way he looses a tail after curling around the net in his own zone is remarkable. 3 strides and instant seperation. love it.

his shiftiness up the ice, I have never seen someone shoulder fake like rielly, very entertaining to watch

Play on the point. His crisp quick passes to the other point or in deep are awesome. love the accuracy and speed with such little wind up
He is always there to keep it in, has the ability to skate it in deep make a play and get back before it goes south.
at the WJC everytime it was coming to the line hed appear out of nowhere to keep it in

I'll admit I haven't watched many Warriors games this season, only one or two besides the highlights but I watched every game at the WJC and am very excited about Rielly.
Plays the left side and though Phaneuf has been playing the left recently I'd love to see him go back to the right with rielly setting up his bombs. If Rielly were to pan out he would finally give Dion the partner he needs, while both are offensive D-men Phaneuf has the defensive instincts to know when to stay back and Rielly has the sheer speed to get back and cover up.
love rielly, didn't know him at the draft but after doing some research and watching him this year I am very excited about the possibilities...

brent100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 07:53 PM
  #104
OptimusForever
#teambernier
 
OptimusForever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,464
vCash: 50
Potential, sure. Chances are slim

OptimusForever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 10:07 PM
  #105
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
No, Karlsson wasn't the exception in his draft class, he is the exception out of many combined draft classes. You simply don't get too many near PPG scoring defensemen under 23 ever coming into the league and winning a Norris Trophy.
Sounds like you answered a question you preferred asked rather than those posed. Well here's the actual statement, Stephen:

It's not hyperbole to say Reilly was the offensive exception in his draft
class, wouldn't you agree? And the he is by all accounts a dynamic
offensive defenceman? Most Leafs fans have essentially characterized
Reilly as a generational talent and certainly a generational draft pick.
Could go down the list and each answer will affirm that it's reasonable
to say, Morgan Reilly possesses a number of congruent characteristics to
Karlsson's set...Certainly at the same age.


I didn't ask if Karlsson was the exception in his draft class or out of many draft classes as a means of comparing a career in full flight versus one yet to begin...Especially in a thread asking about potentiality. Seems like odd reasoning, doesn't it, Stephen?

My point was to emphasize Reilly's potential commensurate with his exceptional draft class position and regard (Question was begged during the Draft, would he have been first overall if healthy) as factors that would contribute to the notion that it's reasonable to conclude -- along with every other characteristic that at least meets Karlsson's at the same age -- that Morgan Reilly possesses the potential to be our Karlsson.

Karlsson's exceptional production doesn't exclude future production from any single prospect. And saying Reillyn has potential isn't the same thing as saying he's better than or the same as, Karlsson now. It's also not a reason to claim Reilly doesn't have the potential to be the Leafs Karlsson, anymore than it would in compairson to have say that because Datsyuk and Zetterberg were such late picks that their draft position removed their now fulfilled potential.

Quote:
Among his contemporaries like Subban, Pietrangelo, Doughty, Gardiner, Schultz, Del Zotto, Hamonic, Schenn, Alzner, Hedman, E. Johnson, Ekman-Larsson, Leddy, Rundblad, Shattenkirk, Moore, Carlson, Fowler, Gormley, Hamilton, etc. he's the one who jumped out and accomplished what he did.
Do you really not see how your example is logically untenable? Here's a hint: Hamilton and Schultz

Quote:
Stamkos has nothing to do with Zetterberg and Datsyuk.
See above in reference to the other posts it seems you missed.

Quote:
In summary, Rielly panning out as an Erik Karlsson is extremely unlikely.
Got that already. You're not providing an unkown quantity, Stephen. Your path to get there is just really fuzzy. I respect your opinion, but it's an opinion that ignores a number of fundamental components.

Each to his own.

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 10:10 PM
  #106
kihei
Registered User
 
kihei's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,680
vCash: 4651
I hate threads like this. Let's see how much pressure we can put on the kid. Why don't we expect him to be Paul Coffey and Bobby Orr, too. He has the potential to be a very good NHL defenseman. Leave it at that, for christsakes.

kihei is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 10:39 PM
  #107
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by philer Bozel View Post
I changed my post to fix a spelling mistake because I was on my phone. But fair enough. I feel like people aren't reading the title very well. It's not do you think Rielly will become Karlsson but does Rielly have the potential to be The Leafs Karlsson. That #1 D who can rush the puck up, Make great first Passes and score a **** load of points.
I think Rielly's going to be a fantastic offensive defenseman in the same constellation as the best young defensemen in the game, but I have a hard time trying to convince myself he's going to be THE best and have a Norris Trophy at a young age.

Stephen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 10:56 PM
  #108
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Sounds like you answered a question you preferred asked rather than those posed. Well here's the actual statement, Stephen:

It's not hyperbole to say Reilly was the offensive exception in his draft
class, wouldn't you agree? And the he is by all accounts a dynamic
offensive defenceman? Most Leafs fans have essentially characterized
Reilly as a generational talent and certainly a generational draft pick.
Could go down the list and each answer will affirm that it's reasonable
to say, Morgan Reilly possesses a number of congruent characteristics to
Karlsson's set...Certainly at the same age.


I didn't ask if Karlsson was the exception in his draft class or out of many draft classes as a means of comparing a career in full flight versus one yet to begin...Especially in a thread asking about potentiality. Seems like odd reasoning, doesn't it, Stephen?

My point was to emphasize Reilly's potential commensurate with his exceptional draft class position and regard (Question was begged during the Draft, would he have been first overall if healthy) as factors that would contribute to the notion that it's reasonable to conclude -- along with every other characteristic that at least meets Karlsson's at the same age -- that Morgan Reilly possesses the potential to be our Karlsson.

Karlsson's exceptional production doesn't exclude future production from any single prospect. And saying Reillyn has potential isn't the same thing as saying he's better than or the same as, Karlsson now. It's also not a reason to claim Reilly doesn't have the potential to be the Leafs Karlsson, anymore than it would in compairson to have say that because Datsyuk and Zetterberg were such late picks that their draft position removed their now fulfilled potential.



Do you really not see how your example is logically untenable? Here's a hint: Hamilton and Schultz



See above in reference to the other posts it seems you missed.



Got that already. You're not providing an unkown quantity, Stephen. Your path to get there is just really fuzzy. I respect your opinion, but it's an opinion that ignores a number of fundamental components.

Each to his own.
What the hell are you talking about?

You're already saying Rielly is a 'generational pick' because he's the best offensive defenseman from his draft? And congruent characteristics to Erik Karlsson at his age?
Let's clarify a few things, just because Morgan Rielly could possibly be the best offensive defenseman, or have the potential to be the best offensive defenseman out of the 2012 draft, does not mean that is commensurate with being a "generational" anything.

As far as comparisons to Karlsson at the same age, that comparison is useless, because Karlsson's development didn't take a quantum leap until basically last year when he suddenly put up a PPG average and won the Norris. At the same age, Karlsson didn't have a full time gig in the SEL and if you were to compare him to David Rundblad a year after being drafted, nothing special would jump out at you. In fact, when Rundblad was coming over to Ottawa, people were saying the Senators had two similar players in Erik Karlsson and David Rundblad.

So given the completely unremarkable development snapshot of a Karlsson up till the age of 19, there's nothing that Rielly is doing now that when compared to Karlsson at the same age should suggest to you that we have a "Karlsson".

You completely misunderstand the Steven Stamkos reference, since it isn't referring to probability but more the fact that he simply took his game to a ridiculously high level almost overnight after a completely pedestrian rookie year, as if to say any high pick who has an ordinary year could somehow be Steven Stamkos.

Maybe Rielly can jump in as a 20 year old and score 130 points. I guess anything is within the realm of possibility. But really, up to this points, I see him fitting in among the good young offensive defensemen of his age bracket, but I don't see him jumping out in front of the pack the way Karlsson did.

Stephen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 11:09 PM
  #109
philer Bozel
It's Playoff Time!
 
philer Bozel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Windsor, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,643
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I think Rielly's going to be a fantastic offensive defenseman in the same constellation as the best young defensemen in the game, but I have a hard time trying to convince myself he's going to be THE best and have a Norris Trophy at a young age.
Opinion = respected. I think we share the same point of view then. Although I wouldn't say Karlsson is the best defenseman in the NHL I too don't think Rielly will be the best at a young age. Just one heck of a player.

philer Bozel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 11:13 PM
  #110
Count Von Grabo*
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Halifax
Posts: 980
vCash: 500
Slow down there op

Count Von Grabo* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 11:20 PM
  #111
Wendelstache
Registered User
 
Wendelstache's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,316
vCash: 500
Reilly = Leetch

They look very similar too, still have the Bryan Leetch upper deck rookie card

Wendelstache is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 11:33 PM
  #112
GoLeafsGo96
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,340
vCash: 500
The Letang and Duncan Keith comparisons aren't very good ones. Rielly has nowhere near the bite that those two have. They may not be the nastiest guys on the back-end, but they play with an edge, and a bite to go with it.

GoLeafsGo96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 11:48 PM
  #113
dannyboy8920
I cheer for Losers
 
dannyboy8920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Oshawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
He musta been all over the ice in tonight's game.

Only a second assist.

But gets the 3rd star, in an away barn. I'd like to hear/see an update.

dannyboy8920 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:08 AM
  #114
GreekLeafer
Registered User
 
GreekLeafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 289
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaiveLeafsFan View Post
What? I think he's had a great year prospect-wise. Putting up almost PPG post draft is impressive (for a defenseman), especially considering the circumstances of him sitting out 80% of the previous season.
This and his junior team is awful. He's by far their best player. It's not like his numbers are being floated by an elite team like Portland or London, etc.

GreekLeafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:21 AM
  #115
My Sweet Shadow
Registered User
 
My Sweet Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,644
vCash: 500
Potential? Sure, I guess. Likely? Probably not. Karlsson's one of the most dynamic defensemen in the game right now, while Rielly has yet to play an NHL game.

He should be a great player in his own regard, but no sense making dramatic comparisons like this yet.

My Sweet Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #116
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
I have likely watched Rielly play more then anyone on this board....I do not know just how his NHL career will go but I can tell you that he has had a great year in Moose Jaw.

I believe his upside is huge and he will be among the league leaders in D man scoring within a couple of years in the NHL. He is the best player we have drafted in such a long time.

diceman934 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:24 AM
  #117
My Sweet Shadow
Registered User
 
My Sweet Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
He musta been all over the ice in tonight's game.

Only a second assist.

But gets the 3rd star, in an away barn. I'd like to hear/see an update.
Based on the MJ games I've watched this year, this is a common occurrence. If he was on a good team, I can only imagine the numbers he'd be putting up.

My Sweet Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:34 AM
  #118
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyboy8920 View Post
He musta been all over the ice in tonight's game.

Only a second assist.

But gets the 3rd star, in an away barn. I'd like to hear/see an update.
I was at his last home game and he had 4 apples......I heard from a former team mate of his tonight, that he was fantastic, should have had several apples, but no finish by his team mates. Likely why he was 3rd star.

diceman934 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:52 AM
  #119
ITM
Registered User
 
ITM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 944
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
What the hell are you talking about?
Really. Perhaps you should read a little more carefully. This is the second time I'm quoting myself on your error:

Most Leafs fans have essentially characterized Reilly as a generational talent and certainly a generational draft pick.

Infer from that any thing your heart desires. I'll mine quotes from other threads another time. Suffice it to say for the sake of expediency...Lots of Leafs fans haven't been this excited since...<insert whatever prospect floats your boat, Stepehen>. It's not to say, I or anyone else qualify Morgan Reilly as a generational talent at the exclusion of <insert as many prospects as you like>, but to say he shows exceptional promise.

Quote:
Let's clarify a few things, just because Morgan Rielly could possibly be the best offensive defenseman, or have the potential to be the best offensive defenseman out of the 2012 draft, does not mean that is commensurate with being a "generational" anything.
Well if he's the best offensive defenceman in his class, it sure as hell weighs in favor of him being something exceptional as opposed to excluding him before he's yet to approach whatever potential is coming his way. You can think someone will or wont be one thing or another, but it is reasonable to conclude that each draft's best could be a "generational" something or other given "best" at the very least suggests an exception to the rule, even if only out of one draft class.

The point is whether it's reasonable under given criteria in context with potential. You can repeat that MR wont be this or that, but you're actually not speaking to whether or not he has the potential from reasonable consideration. That means you have to have reasons for your consideration, Stephen.

Quote:
As far as comparisons to Karlsson at the same age, that comparison is useless, because Karlsson's development didn't take a quantum leap until basically last year when he suddenly put up a PPG average and won the Norris. At the same age, Karlsson didn't have a full time gig in the SEL and if you were to compare him to David Rundblad a year after being drafted, nothing special would jump out at you. In fact, when Rundblad was coming over to Ottawa, people were saying the Senators had two similar players in Erik Karlsson and David Rundblad.
So a basis for running a parallel comparison is useless because one player a few years into his career spiked? So according to your model, Reilly can't outscore Karlsson's first full season in his first full season. He can't improve at a greater pace his second year. And Morgan Reilly can't progress in a more normative arc that culimnates in or around a ppg pace?

And yet Dion Phaneuf, one could argue, outplayed Erik Karlsson's first three seasons only to decline in production.

For all intents and purposes, Erik Karlsson could peak for three seasons like Phaneuf or he could maintain production similar to Lidstrom, but in either scenario, there's nothing in Karlsson's play to exclude Reilly's potential career.

The difference is, you're prefering to interpret anomalous production as grounds to exclude Reilly's potential production whereas I'm interpreting several career arcs to allow for a career that is possiblly equal in production/performance.

Did I miss the qualification in the thread's question that stipulated it was a question of whether Reilly has to match Karlsson's exact trajectory?

Quote:
So given the completely unremarkable development snapshot of a Karlsson up till the age of 19, there's nothing that Rielly is doing now that when compared to Karlsson at the same age should suggest to you that we have a "Karlsson".
And yet at the same age, we have a prospect that was bandied about as a potential first overall pick, whereas Karlsson wasn't...Karlsson has exceeded reasonable expectation, Morgan Reilly simply has to meet his in order to be in the conversation.

Quote:
You completely misunderstand the Steven Stamkos reference, since it isn't referring to probability but more the fact that he simply took his game to a ridiculously high level almost overnight after a completely pedestrian rookie year, as if to say any high pick who has an ordinary year could somehow be Steven Stamkos.
And yet somehow, that he was selected first overall has no bearing in your consideration, when professional consensus regarded his career as being likely exceptional...Thus the first overall selection tag and subsequent pick.

But apparently Reilly can't be seen to reasonably challenge for like results despite opinion that at least entertained the POTENTIAL of Reilly being selected first overall, but for injury issues.

Quote:
Maybe Rielly can jump in as a 20 year old and score 130 points. I guess anything is within the realm of possibility. But really, up to this points, I see him fitting in among the good young offensive defensemen of his age bracket, but I don't see him jumping out in front of the pack the way Karlsson did.
Absurd. You have a preference, that's all. Supporting it with double standards doesn't serve it, it detracts from it.

Here's the actual question of the thread: Does MR have the potential to be our Karlsson?

Here's the question you apparently (wished to?) read: Will MR be our Karlsson?

Nope, no difference at all.

ITM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 12:53 AM
  #120
ponder
Registered User
 
ponder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,517
vCash: 500
I definitely see some similarities in the way they skate, the way they handle the puck, and the way they see the ice. Both super calm, ridiculously shifty players. When Karlsson was Rielly's age, his defence and physicality wasn't much better than Rielly's is now.

The main quality Rielly lacks compared to Karlsson is a killer shot. Karlsson has one of the best shots in the league; hard, accurate, and he gets it off effortlessly every time. It's part of what makes him so hard to defend, you have to 100% respect the shot, the pass, and the pinch/deke. Rielly's shot is nothing special at all, dmen/goalies won't have to worry about it much from the point. I think to really reach his huge offensive potential, he'll have to develop a killer shot (which is totally possible, just not at all guaranteed).

ponder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 01:07 AM
  #121
diceman934
Registered User
 
diceman934's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NHL player factory
Posts: 5,617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
I definitely see some similarities in the way they skate, the way they handle the puck, and the way they see the ice. Both super calm, ridiculously shifty players. When Karlsson was Rielly's age, his defence and physicality wasn't much better than Rielly's is now.

The main quality Rielly lacks compared to Karlsson is a killer shot. Karlsson has one of the best shots in the league; hard, accurate, and he gets it off effortlessly every time. It's part of what makes him so hard to defend, you have to 100% respect the shot, the pass, and the pinch/deke. Rielly's shot is nothing special at all, dmen/goalies won't have to worry about it much from the point. I think to really reach his huge offensive potential, he'll have to develop a killer shot (which is totally possible, just not at all guaranteed).
You are correct.....his shot is his weakness currently. He does get the puck to the net on a very consistent basis and that will create scoring chances.

diceman934 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 01:58 AM
  #122
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 31,195
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Really. Perhaps you should read a little more carefully. This is the second time I'm quoting myself on your error:

Most Leafs fans have essentially characterized Reilly as a generational talent and certainly a generational draft pick.

Infer from that any thing your heart desires. I'll mine quotes from other threads another time. Suffice it to say for the sake of expediency...Lots of Leafs fans haven't been this excited since...<insert whatever prospect floats your boat, Stepehen>. It's not to say, I or anyone else qualify Morgan Reilly as a generational talent at the exclusion of <insert as many prospects as you like>, but to say he shows exceptional promise.
Don't use the word generational in a conversation that doesn't call for it. If it doesn't apply, don't type it out as if to infer and then retract it as if the thought never crossed your mind, but really did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Well if he's the best offensive defenceman in his class, it sure as hell weighs in favor of him being something exceptional as opposed to excluding him before he's yet to approach whatever potential is coming his way. You can think someone will or wont be one thing or another, but it is reasonable to conclude that each draft's best could be a "generational" something or other given "best" at the very least suggests an exception to the rule, even if only out of one draft class.

The point is whether it's reasonable under given criteria in context with potential. You can repeat that MR wont be this or that, but you're actually not speaking to whether or not he has the potential from reasonable consideration. That means you have to have reasons for your consideration, Stephen.
I think Rielly is an exceptional prospect and should be a pretty good bet at being an exceptional player.

But there you go again with this stupid little game of cat and mouse with the term "generational". "He isn't 'generational' but maybe he could be generational if we modify the definition of generational. Anything's possible, right?"

Erik Karlsson is an exceptional player among exceptional players in terms of pure production, in terms of the age he did it and in terms of the Norris Trophy (deserved or not) at such a young age. The Erik Karlsson invocation is pretty specific in this instance. What generational quality are you reasonably expecting out of Rielly?

-A season where he finishes in the top 11 in NHL scoring?
-Wins a Norris Trophy within the next 3 years?
-Score Almost 80 points a year?

Because I don't think he'll do any of those things. But if we're not dead set on some kind of Erik Karlsson comparison here, why don't we just say, "Morgan Rielly will be a smooth skating elite number one defenseman and franchise cornerstone of a competitive Leafs team" and call it a day?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
So a basis for running a parallel comparison is useless because one player a few years into his career spiked? So according to your model, Reilly can't outscore Karlsson's first full season in his first full season. He can't improve at a greater pace his second year. And Morgan Reilly can't progress in a more normative arc that culimnates in or around a ppg pace?
What is this comparison about other than comparing Rielly's potential to Karlsson's career spike anyway?

Because I'm pretty sure when a guy like you is throwing around the term generational in his sentences isn't referring to the Karlsson that put up good offensive numbers but a horrible -30 +/- in his sophomore year and got ripped to shreds about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
And yet Dion Phaneuf, one could argue, outplayed Erik Karlsson's first three seasons only to decline in production.
Karlsson has a Norris Trophy, and vastly superior offense, so I'll will not accept this argument and cut this off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
For all intents and purposes, Erik Karlsson could peak for three seasons like Phaneuf or he could maintain production similar to Lidstrom, but in either scenario, there's nothing in Karlsson's play to exclude Reilly's potential career.
I'm not speculating on Karlsson's future career arc in either direction. I am looking at the peak which Karlsson has achieved up to this point and I think it's highly, highly unlikely Rielly achieves this level of production and success this soon, which is what makes 'Karlsson uniquely Karlsson.'

Otherwise we could talk about Phaneuf or Lidstrom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
The difference is, you're prefering to interpret anomalous production as grounds to exclude Reilly's potential production whereas I'm interpreting several career arcs to allow for a career that is possiblly equal in production/performance.

Did I miss the qualification in the thread's question that stipulated it was a question of whether Reilly has to match Karlsson's exact trajectory?
Did I miss the paragraph in the OP that asked us to take out our Tarot cards and extrapolate what Karlsson's career might look like in 15 years and then compare it to the Tarot card reading of Rielly's?

Because any sane individual would simply look at what one player has already done, and ask himself if the comparison in question is likely to do what's been achieved.

You could have also been more clear and concise with your projections if you threw out some other defenseman whose career is complete as a more suitable Rielly comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
And yet at the same age, we have a prospect that was bandied about as a potential first overall pick, whereas Karlsson wasn't...Karlsson has exceeded reasonable expectation, Morgan Reilly simply has to meet his in order to be in the conversation.
Which conversation? Generational talent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
And yet somehow, that he was selected first overall has no bearing in your consideration, when professional consensus regarded his career as being likely exceptional...Thus the first overall selection tag and subsequent pick.
Steven Stamkos is an exceptional example of a number one pick. He is an exceptional exceptional. As in, he's better than other things labeled as exceptional. Like Taylor Hall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
But apparently Reilly can't be seen to reasonably challenge for like results despite opinion that at least entertained the POTENTIAL of Reilly being selected first overall, but for injury issues.
You are saying that "IF Morgan Rielly was healthy, and IF he was good enough to be picked first overall as a result of being healthy, and then IF he was an exceptional example of a first overall pick, he could reasonably have the POTENTIAL...

Yeah that's a lot of if's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ITM View Post
Absurd. You have a preference, that's all. Supporting it with double standards doesn't serve it, it detracts from it.

Here's the actual question of the thread: Does MR have the potential to be our Karlsson?

Here's the question you apparently (wished to?) read: Will MR be our Karlsson?

Nope, no difference at all.
I'm a huge Morgan Rielly fan, and I think he has the potential to be the franchise cornerstone of the Leafs, an elite defenseman with an electric offensive impact on the power play and special teams.

I don't see the value in splitting hairs on the definition of potential/realizing potential, because people like you are simply interested in taking that leap of logic and conflating the two together, throwing the word generational around and invoking some big names.

Stephen is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 02:13 AM
  #123
Rielly Good
Registered User
 
Rielly Good's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: London, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 648
vCash: 500
haha Karlsson had 78 Points last season. Schenn has 77 in his career. Ahaha. I know they're different type of players. Just thought it was funny. I know this thread isn't about that draft.

But man oh man, How good has Karlsson got. Kings picked Tuebert like a few spots before him, bet you they're kicking themselves lol

Rielly Good is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 03:22 AM
  #124
EssendonBombers
classless
 
EssendonBombers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Straya
Country: Australia
Posts: 1,289
vCash: 500
Sens fan perspective:

Rielly was and deserved to be a top 5 pick (i.e. not Tom Hickey). I think there is a genuine opportunity and potential for such a highly touted prospect to become a superstar player.

Whether he reaches what Karlsson has achieved and his level of play by the time he is 22 is unlikely, but the answer to the question posed by the thread is yes, there is a non-zero chance that he could be that player.

EssendonBombers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 07:38 AM
  #125
Skrymir
Registered User
 
Skrymir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,083
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Erik Karlsson is a bad comparison.

I think he'll be more like Bobby Orr and completely change the game.
I like you

Skrymir is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.