UFA vs. RFA. Kessel will be getting 6.5-7 mil with his next contract.
Zajac has been playing on the first line with the likes of Parise, let's also not ignore that after the 67 point season, he put up 44 points the next season, pretty inconsistent.
Grabovski isn't worth keeping as a UFA if you have to pay him $6 million this year for a cap hit of $5.5 million.
He won't be paid more than Kessel when Kessel resigns, which would be more comparable than his current deal which he signed much younger.
There is more to player contracts than point totals. Just like any union job, seniority plays a part. In hockey, you also have to pay more money for FA years. You also have to consider the players role on your team not just what you think he would do on some other team.
Just saying, he got 60pts he's worth x amount is really uneducated.
I'm not a particularly big Grabovski fan and I see a lot of problems paying out that kind of coin for not only okay production, but I have a lot of issues with him being retained at core player money, especially since:
-his playmaking is awful, which limits his ability to find chemistry with teammates.
-not effective on the cycle
-doesn't control the ice at all as a center
-shows up once every 2 or 3 games which makes his production unreliable.
-actually hasn't posted a single point in the past five games, doesn't get nearly the same flack as Kessel for not scoring goals.
-bad on special teams.
-seems to have built a reputation on having big games and making big plays, but they are few and far between
If he were to sign a 1-2 year deal, it would have been in the 6m+ per year range. That is what PPG players get, even if it is only for 1 season.
We signed him for 5.25m over 5 years. Decreased cap hit due to increase in length.
The contract I would have liked to see would have been 5.5-5.75m for 3-4 years. We got him cheaper, but we also have longer.
For me, it is yet to be determined whether it was a good or bad signing.
Grabo's contract is fine by me. Was signed to take up 7.8% of the cap space of the year the contract started.
- Kesler was signed for 8.4% of the cap
- Krejci was signed for 7.5% of the cap (RFA)
- Plekanec was signed for 8.4% of the cap
- Pominville was signed for 9.3% of the cap
- Zetterberg was signed for 10.7% of the cap
- Bergeron was signed for 7.8% of the cap
I fail to see Grabo being overpaid. That is what players of his caliber get signed for now.
The reason we can find all these people making less then him but being better players is because people sign longer contracts now.
An example Kessel is signed for 5.4m and looks like a friggin steal because he is in the last year of his contract. At the time he signed for what he was worth, but due to the length of the contract and the big increases in the cap, his contract now looks much better.
Are you seriously saying you think that Grabo is equal to the players on your list ?
Man I wish I was a GM in the NHL and discussing trades with you!!
The Rangers were synonymous with signing mediocre players to extravagant contracts (see Drury, Gomez, Redden, etc.), yet it hasn't hampered them from acquiring Richards, Gaborik, and Nash $6.5M+ each. Not to mention locking up their goalie for $6.875M.
Comparatively, we've got it easy; only 4 players locked up past next year (Lupul, Grabovski, JVR, and Liles) at $20.375 and none of those guys are ridiculously overpaid. We'd be able to move any one of them in a heartbeat.
Are you seriously saying you think that Grabo is equal to the players on your list ?
I was taking players from your list here
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobarth
I've already provided market comparables for both players in the "Most expensive 3rd line in the NHL" thread.
and then showing the percentage of the cap hit they took up when they signed. As you can see Grabo signed for a smaller percentage of the cap hit than most of those other players. I think those other players are better than Grabo (by varying degrees). We could easily call Grabo overpaid if his percentage was higher than all those players, but it isn't.
Also the best market comparables would be to compare to players who signed recently and not players who signed in many cases 2-3 years ago and unfortunately there are not many of them. Forwards who signed for a similar amount of money (not RFA forwards) somewhat recently is pretty much limited to Zajac (5.75) and Doan (5.3)
kessel will be resigned if he is willing to rework a contract .....burke made it hard on all counts ,by giving up too much ,and paying him 1.5 million a year too much
he got more than shea weber ,parise ,suter ,all did at the same age ,,,i doubt minnesota would trade parise for kessel right now ....like kessel or not ,the ecomics point to him either giving a hometown discount ,or walk ....
Zajac has two years where he's put up 67 and 62 points a year in New Jersey, which is in the first line bracket that Phil Kessel has managed here before last season.
Grabovski is not a great anything. He's a good second liner who is paid more than Phil Kessel, in the grand tradition of the Leafs paying okay players far more than they're worth.
Your comparing point totals between a guy who plays with Kulemin and MacArthur vs. a guy who spent most of his career with Parise and now Kovalchuck? The fact that there is only a 9 point difference in career highs is incredible considering line-mates and ice-time. Check their points/60 and Corsi QoT in Grabos 58 point season and Zajacs 67 point season and then let me know who had the better season of the two....
Are you seriously saying you think that Grabo is equal to the players on your list ?
Man I wish I was a GM in the NHL and discussing trades with you!!
Are you seriously that dense? He is showing how although better plays are being paid less, its not becausee they are on a steal of a deal. After 5 or so year since the deal has been signed the cap had gone up and those 5 million dollar contracts were originally a larger portion of the cap than Grabovskis 5.25 million deal. Keslers for example would be closer to 6 million if he signed to the same contract last season because that would be his % of the total cap.
The guy has actually had 2 seasons below 50 points (on pace for) his rookie and 3rd year
4 50 or 50 pace seasons
1 60 point pace season
1 PPG season
The guy is regularly a 50-60 point player and like has been argued for Grabo thats market value. The problem with his contract is that hes often injured and those types of players hurt a playoff team when they cant acquire an adequate replacement due to their pending return into the lineup.
We live in a world where Ville Leino can get 4.5 million per. Upcoming and current UFA's will get big raises. No surprise.
Some of Burke's best trades were made because of having the cap room and willingness to take on someone else's cap management mistakes. Lupul and Lombardi trades come to mind. Going forward, the ability to move cap room in trades gives a team more flexibility. The key point to this is that good cap management (ie having cap room) is important for a successful team. That is why I'm so against acquiring Luongo and their ilk and their cap killer contracts (unless the Leafs are properly compensated for taking on these negative assets).
Your comparing point totals between a guy who plays with Kulemin and MacArthur vs. a guy who spent most of his career with Parise and now Kovalchuck? The fact that there is only a 9 point difference in career highs is incredible considering line-mates and ice-time. Check their points/60 and Corsi QoT in Grabos 58 point season and Zajacs 67 point season and then let me know who had the better season of the two....
Considering Zajac had his 62 point year before Kovalchuk arrived in New Jersey, and Kovalchuk was in New Jersey for 27 games during his 67 point season, I don't think the Kovalchuk argument holds that much water.
The team has spent close to the cap every year and even payed a guy like Finger/Connolly to sit in the minors.
This is the one year we haven't spent close to the cap but that has more to do with uncertainity that having no CBA caused.
Out of our high salary players moving forward Grabo is the first guy I'd want gone. JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf all more important players to build around.
Komisarek only has 1 year left on his contract and can always be bought out so he doesn't count.
With Grabo making 5.5 and Kadri emerging as another undersized/non-body game player Grabo will probably be traded before the end of his contract so that this team can address its lack of size/physicality at the top of the forward group and the right side of our D.
I think Toronto has a choice to trade Grabo well we still has decent value or wait and take the chance that his play declines (which I'm certain it will) and have him become a cap albatross in the 2-3 years of his deal.
The team has spent close to the cap every year and even payed a guy like Finger/Connolly to sit in the minors.
This is the one year we haven't spent close to the cap but that has more to do with uncertainity that having no CBA caused.
Out of our high salary players moving forward Grabo is the first guy I'd want gone. JVR, Kessel, Lupul, Phaneuf all more important players to build around.
Komisarek only has 1 year left on his contract and can always be bought out so he doesn't count.
With Grabo making 5.5 and Kadri emerging as another undersized/non-body game player Grabo will probably be traded before the end of his contract so that this team can address its lack of size/physicality at the top of the forward group and the right side of our D.
I think Toronto has a choice to trade Grabo well we still has decent value or wait and take the chance that his play declines (which I'm certain it will) and have him become a cap albatross in the 2-3 years of his deal.
If we can acquire a 1st line C by dealing his salary than do it. If not there is no need too considering our abundance of cap space....You have to remember Connollys 4.5 comes off the books this season, the retained Lombardi's 1.5 million and MacArthurs 3.5 million. Thats 9.5 million in cap + the 6.5 we already have is 16 million. With our current group we have 16 million in cap space and we should sell Grabo off just because we can have more?
The cap is going down 6 IIRC but thats 12 million, actually 11 with Lupuls contract, in useless space with a full line-up and no one significant needed to be signed.....
Grabo plays with a lot of heart. He doesn't take many nights off, and is the best centre the Leafs have. They are not in any cap problems, so why people would want to get him off the team is beyond me.
