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Couturier+Voracek or Johnson+1st?

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Old
02-11-2013, 02:56 AM
  #1
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Couturier+Voracek or Johnson+1st?

Which do you think is a better deal? Hindsight on 2 trades with the same player return.

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02-11-2013, 02:58 AM
  #2
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Depends on the first but I like Couts + Voracek better.

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02-11-2013, 03:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Which do you think is a better deal? Hindsight on 2 trades with the same player return.
This probably belongs in the "Polls" section, but I'd say easily Couturier + Voracek right now. If the 1st round pick for the Blue Jackets ends up in the top 10 of this draft (I think that's unlikely, but the Kings aren't off to the best start and it's a short season so anything can happen), then it becomes a lot closer and perhaps even favoring the 2nd.

To break it down, I think Johnson is a little better than Voracek, but I think Couturier is much, much better than what the Jackets are likely to get with that 1st round pick. I don't think the Jackets will be drafting as high as the Flyers did to take Couturier and I also think the Flyers got fantastic value taking Couturier where they did because he was a former #1 rated draft prospect who slid due in part to mono.

Interesting comparison though for sure.

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02-11-2013, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
This probably belongs in the "Polls" section, but I'd say easily Couturier + Voracek right now. If the 1st round pick for the Blue Jackets ends up in the top 10 of this draft (I think that's unlikely, but the Kings aren't off to the best start and it's a short season so anything can happen), then it becomes a lot closer and perhaps even favoring the 2nd.

To break it down, I think Johnson is a little better than Voracek, but I think Couturier is much, much better than what the Jackets are likely to get with that 1st round pick. I don't think the Jackets will be drafting as high as the Flyers did to take Couturier and I also think the Flyers got fantastic value taking Couturier where they did because he was a former #1 rated draft prospect who slid due in part to mono.

Interesting comparison though for sure.
You mean a LOT better?

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02-11-2013, 04:18 AM
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Sorry, I know I'm nitpicking here, but the Flyers also got a 3rd round pick in the deal which they used on Nick Cousins. So it's...

Voracek, Couturier, Cousins vs. Johnson, 1st.

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02-11-2013, 04:46 AM
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Theoretically, Columbus was the highest bigger for Carter when the Flyers traded him. LA was probably the Second

When Colombus was forced to trade Carter they went to the second highest bid beside their....

So in Theory Voracek + 8th overall pick was superior.

This is to keep in mind when we make proposal of a player we previously acquired. If anything else is equal, we usually wont get as much if we trade him since our team was previously the most interested to get this player.

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02-11-2013, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Which do you think is a better deal? Hindsight on 2 trades with the same player return.
It isn't hindsight if you get to include the players selected with acquired picks on one side of the comparison but not the other.

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02-11-2013, 08:41 AM
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I'm not a huge fan of JJ. But given the short season, we'll have to see where that LA pick ends up. It is a deep draft.

My initial response though is Couturier + Voracek.

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02-11-2013, 08:45 AM
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Depends where the Kings' first is, of course. So far it doesn't seem like it will be that high, so there's a decent chance that pick becomes a stud player.

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02-11-2013, 08:47 AM
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How has JJ looked for the Jackets? Hasn't he been playing like 28 minutes a night or something?

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02-11-2013, 11:34 AM
  #11
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Which Johnson? Aaron, Ben, Chad, Erik, or Jack?

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02-11-2013, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemandan View Post
Which Johnson? Aaron, Ben, Chad, Erik, or Jack?
Clearly Jack.

It's a comparison of the Carter trades last season.

You might need to know a bit about hockey though to put it together.

Edit: JEFF Carter. I should have added that as you may like to know.

And I am saying this tongue and cheek so don't get all upset

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02-11-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I'm not a huge fan of JJ. But given the short season, we'll have to see where that LA pick ends up. It is a deep draft.

My initial response though is Couturier + Voracek.

While I agree with you overall that the Flyers got more value for Jeff Carter, that makes sense as his value was lower after struggling for the Jackets. I thought that Columbus did a pretty good job of getting $.80 on the dollar after JC sulked and pouted his way though 40 or so games for the Jackets.

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02-11-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caribouPINE View Post
Clearly Jack.

It's a comparison of the Carter trades last season.

You might need to know a bit about hockey though to put it together.

Edit: JEFF Carter. I should have added that as you may like to know.

And I am saying this tongue and cheek so don't get all upset
Anson Carter's still playing?

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02-11-2013, 01:32 PM
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Couturier makes that trade look good now. Given the choice between Voracek + high first and JJ + mid-late-ish first (probably wasn´t counting on the cup win), I´d have taken the latter and watching Voracek these days actually still might pending the return of that LA 1st.

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02-11-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kratzbuerste View Post
Couturier makes that trade look good now. Given the choice between Voracek + high first and JJ + mid-late-ish first (probably wasn´t counting on the cup win), I´d have taken the latter and watching Voracek these days actually still might pending the return of that LA 1st.
Haven't watch Voracek the past two flyers games I have it. He's been much much better

As someone else said there was also a 3rd going to Philly which turned into Nick Cousins who will be a competent 3rd line pest with some offensive flare. I know I'm a little biased but I easily choose the flyers return especially considering the uncertainty behind LA 1st this yr. best to revisit this in the offseason

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02-11-2013, 02:03 PM
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If the kings don't turn it around and hand Columbus a top 10 pick, I think take the JJ + 1st package over Couturier + Voracek. It's a bit transient though, if that pick is 8 or higher in this draft it's an easy easy decision for the JJ package IMO but if it falls back to even 11/12 I probably take Couturier/Voracek.

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02-11-2013, 02:03 PM
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Columbus never had Couturier and never traded him.

They traded an 8th overall with no knowledge that Couturier would or should be there. They traded it before draft day so it wasn't like they waited to see who was available.

So it's Voracek + 8th overall + 3rd rounder for Jack Johnson + LA's 2013 pick. Jack Johnson > Voracek + 3rd. We'll see where LA's pick ends up.

Finally, Columbus traded Carter out of duress. We can't assume that they would get fair value from him because he demanded a trade. I think getting fair value for a guy who demands out is a good job in and of itself.

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02-11-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Columbus never had Couturier and never traded him.

They traded an 8th overall with no knowledge that Couturier would or should be there. They traded it before draft day so it wasn't like they waited to see who was available.

So it's Voracek + 8th overall + 3rd rounder for Jack Johnson + LA's 2013 pick. Jack Johnson > Voracek + 3rd. We'll see where LA's pick ends up.
Granted, but the whole point of the thread is clearly to see what people would rather have in hindsight.

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02-11-2013, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Granted, but the whole point of the thread is clearly to see what people would rather have in hindsight.
If Columbus had kept the pick nobody knows who would have been available at #8 and who Columbus would have selected.

We should at least wait to find out where LA's pick falls and who is selected with it. Right?

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02-11-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
If Columbus had kept the pick nobody knows who would have been available at #8 and who Columbus would have selected.

We should at least wait to find out where LA's pick falls and who is selected with it. Right?
But waiting doesn't give folks the opportunity to point and laugh at Columbus again, so that's simply not acceptable.

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02-11-2013, 02:42 PM
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We also got Nick Cousins from the deal, who is leading the OHL in points. But it'll be a few years before we can see who wins, but right now I'd rather have Couts and Voracek.

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02-11-2013, 03:16 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Granted, but the whole point of the thread is clearly to see what people would rather have in hindsight.
Quotes self from earlier in this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
It isn't hindsight if you get to include the players selected with acquired picks on one side of the comparison but not the other.
Then quotes Crede in case anyone didn't follow what I posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
If Columbus had kept the pick nobody knows who would have been available at #8 and who Columbus would have selected.

We should at least wait to find out where LA's pick falls and who is selected with it. Right?
How exactly is it hindsight when we're including players drafted with traded picks on only one side of the discussion? Maybe the world has changed the meaning of hindsight and not told me?

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02-11-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djlethal08 View Post
Sorry, I know I'm nitpicking here, but the Flyers also got a 3rd round pick in the deal which they used on Nick Cousins. So it's...

Voracek, Couturier, Cousins vs. Johnson, 1st.
It isnt actually Couturier . Jackets had no idea he would be avail at that pick.

It was a #9 pick overall. They didnt draft Couturier -then trade him to the Flyers.

I know its for the sake of argument but thats when we veer of the path when we start using hindsight logic to determine if a trade was worth this or that.

Its only fair if the player was actually traded for Carter.

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02-11-2013, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Granted, but the whole point of the thread is clearly to see what people would rather have in hindsight.
Unfortunately we aren't at the point of "hindsight" yet since Columbus hasn't been placed in the 2013 draft with LA's pick nor have they picked and seen what type of player this may become.

I get the point but it's only a little hindsight based on what Philly did with their position thus far. Columbus ultimate tally hasn't unfolded yet.

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