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12/13 Draft Thread: Browsing Craig's List 20-24.

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Old
02-21-2013, 03:02 PM
  #376
mapes
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Originally Posted by BertCorbeau View Post
Whatever the hell happened to him anyways?
Just your CHL superstar. Keep in mind he had a 143 point season before being drafted 291st overall. All scouts doubted he would make it and they were dead on.

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02-21-2013, 03:03 PM
  #377
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I like Erne, but I'm not sold on his offensive potential. I've seen him play a lot over the past two seasons and it's just kind of hit and miss with him. The so called "character issues" some talk about are non-existent, I just don't want to use our 1st round pick on a guy who has 'solid 3rd liner' written all over him.

Mantha is really intriguing. Sometimes when I see him play, he just doesn't look interested when the puck isn't on his stick, but there's no denying the skill he has. I seem him as more of a project, he needs to add some bulk and learn better on-ice habits, if that makes any sense. A big, goal scoring project.

Gauthier could be the real deal. The extra year in midget hockey gave him time to get used to his increased size(from what I heard, he had quite a growth spurt), and learn two-way skills. In a few years he could be what we all hoped Joe Colborne would be by now. His skating is so damn smooth for a big guy as well.

Another guy from the Q to watch, more likely in the 2nd round, is William Carrier. Started off the season as a potential 1st rounder but has slipped steadily. Part of that is because the Cape Breton organization has been a complete mess all year from top to bottom, and partly because he's missed time with injury. He was injured for the CHL Top Prospects game which certainly hurt him.
Still, he averaged over a PPG last season and has improved on that average with a far less talented team this season. Anyone who can do that while playing a power forward style deserves attention.
My uncle in QC raves about Gauthier, Mantha, and Erne all the time. I see Ernie as almost a sure-fire NHL'er, with his speed, tenacity, and energy game, but possessing some tools offensively that can have him in your top 6, as a goal scoring winger, with a good playmaking pivot (IE: Kadri). He's good off the rush, but not as creative with the puck as I generally like in a top 6 Fwd. He's someone that I believe will thrive having a good playmaker with him, as he has a good shot, and doesn't shy away from going to the net.

Pretty spot on with Mantha. The talent, and raw ability is there, but it may take some time for him to grow into a more complete game. He sometimes plays like a guy that is too good for the level of hockey he's playing at, and that doesn't help, but we're talking about a big body who can skate, and can score goals in droves. We NEED a guy with his skill-set for our top 6, and this is my preferred pick at 14-17.

I haven't gotten to see much of Gauthier yet, but the more i read and research, the more I like him. He is another with top 6 upside, but can certainly fill the 3rd line center hole beautifully if he doesn't.

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02-21-2013, 03:03 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by mapes View Post
Both are wrong. Angelo never averaged 2 PPG and Radulov didn't even play in the Q at 17..

Pretty sure only Sid has, at 17, averaged 2 PPG from the Q in the past 10 years
Drouin is doing well without Mackinnon, making a stong case for his high ranking.

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02-21-2013, 03:04 PM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I agree, even if he did not have character issues, though I definitely wouldn't want to draft a selfish player when you have a Ryan Hartman player available. I don't see the attraction in Erne at all, certainly not at 15, 20, perhaps 25, but I think he slides out of the 1st rd all together, I posted his declining production as the year wore on, Grigornenko perhaps made him better stats wise than some gave him credit for.
15th is still too early for Hartman IMO, some potential top-line talent should still be available at this point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
My preference at 15 is:
Mantha
Erne
Gauthier
Lazar
Morrissy

In terms of players we could realistically get ~15, I would say my order of preference would be:

Wennberg
Lazar
Morrissey
Gauthier
Hagg
Mantha
Erne

But I realize I'm a bit higher on Lazar than most, and that it may be ambitious to say that Wennberg will be available in the middle of the 1st.

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02-21-2013, 03:05 PM
  #380
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Ryan Hartman is an early 2nd round pick, late 1st guy. The definition of a reach at 15

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02-21-2013, 03:20 PM
  #381
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I love Hartman but he shouldn't go any higher than 25, imo. Too many good players available.

Around 15 I like

Nurse
Morrissey
Erne
Zadorov
Lazar
Domi
Mantha
Hagg
Gauthier


In that order. Probably won't be able to get Nurse and Zadorov, but you never know.

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02-21-2013, 03:20 PM
  #382
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
15th is still too early for Hartman IMO, some potential top-line talent should still be available at this point.

In terms of players we could realistically get ~15, I would say my order of preference would be:

Wennberg
Lazar
Morrissey
Gauthier
Hagg
Mantha
Erne

But I realize I'm a bit higher on Lazar than most, and that it may be ambitious to say that Wennberg will be available in the middle of the 1st.
I agree with this, but I like certain guys, Pulock, Bailey, Hartman, I liked Nichushkin at #10 before he skyrocketed to #2.

Shinkaruk is a guy I would take at #15, but he won't make it that high. Need more picks late in the first rd. Hartman is going to be a valuable player in the NHL.

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02-21-2013, 03:21 PM
  #383
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
For those of you who are wondering about barkov.


those who watch him regularly (and scouts) point to one thing and one thing alone as his weakness. skating, now I understand how that might be a concern, however two things should be understood before you read into this "weakness".


1) from last season to this one, those who regulatily watch him will tell you he took a good step forward with his skating. he recognized it as a weakness, worked hard on it and significantly improved it. that's likely to continue. his work ethic is extrodinary. he's always trying to get better at things he isn't so strong in.


2) you need to understand that he's growing still and grew last year. this is going to cause him to make adjustments and its going to cause him to appear as a weaker skater. its more because of growing than a persistent weakness. once he stops growing its highly likely he will improve his skating even more. ask any person who had to deal with this growing up skating. its a struggle, I had the issue. Im 6 foot 9 and was always growing. it wasn't until I stopped growing that I was finally able to fine tune my skating into something much more powerful and effextove . the same will happen for barkov. think of what adding a inch or more to your stride can do for you. think of what that's going to do to your skating while still growing, ever year you have to get used to a changing stride.
Your username makes so much more sense now

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02-21-2013, 03:31 PM
  #384
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
My uncle in QC raves about Gauthier, Mantha, and Erne all the time. I see Ernie as almost a sure-fire NHL'er, with his speed, tenacity, and energy game, but possessing some tools offensively that can have him in your top 6, as a goal scoring winger, with a good playmaking pivot (IE: Kadri). He's good off the rush, but not as creative with the puck as I generally like in a top 6 Fwd. He's someone that I believe will thrive having a good playmaker with him, as he has a good shot, and doesn't shy away from going to the net.

Pretty spot on with Mantha. The talent, and raw ability is there, but it may take some time for him to grow into a more complete game. He sometimes plays like a guy that is too good for the level of hockey he's playing at, and that doesn't help, but we're talking about a big body who can skate, and can score goals in droves. We NEED a guy with his skill-set for our top 6, and this is my preferred pick at 14-17.

I haven't gotten to see much of Gauthier yet, but the more i read and research, the more I like him. He is another with top 6 upside, but can certainly fill the 3rd line center hole beautifully if he doesn't.
Adam Erne wouldn't be the guy I would want to draft around 15, but at the same time I wouldn't be disappointed if we did. If the Leafs scouting staff sees more offense in him than I do, I'm happy to defer to their judgement, because I really like his playing style.

The more I think about it, the more I really like the idea of someday having JVR and Mantha as a one-two punch on LW. If we can't find a big, top-six centre, might as well collect a bunch of big, top-six wingers.

This is the only highlight pack of Gauthier I've ever found...the only thing worse than the quality of the video is the music that's playing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIvlhucOESI

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02-21-2013, 03:35 PM
  #385
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
I agree with this, but I like certain guys, Pulock, Bailey, Hartman, I liked Nichushkin at #10 before he skyrocketed to #2.

Shinkaruk is a guy I would take at #15, but he won't make it that high. Need more picks late in the first rd. Hartman is going to be a valuable player in the NHL.
I don't really like Pulock at all (skating is a big concern for me with him), and I like Bailey and Hartman but certainly not in the middle of the first round. If somehow Bailey/Lodge were available with our 2nd round pick I would be very happy. I really want a big RH centre in the system.

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02-21-2013, 03:44 PM
  #386
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
I don't really like Pulock at all (skating is a big concern for me with him), and I like Bailey and Hartman but certainly not in the middle of the first round. If somehow Bailey/Lodge were available with our 2nd round pick I would be very happy. I really want a big RH centre in the system.
We shouldn't be picking Hartman unless we go on a long playoff run, and I don't see that happening.

On the other hand, our staff has reached for guys they like in the past, so who knows.

Also, Rychel is the same player, but with more upside. I'd take him before Hartman. Not to mention, Rychel rag-dolled Hartman in the prospects game. Strength at the next level is important.


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02-21-2013, 03:51 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
We shouldn't be picking Hartman unless we go on a long playoff run, and I don't see that happening.

On the other hand, our staff has reaches for guys they like in the past, so who knows.

Also, Rychel is the same player, but with more upside. I'd take him before Hartman. Not to mention, Rychel rag-dolled Hartman in the prospects game. Strength at the next level is important.
You're right. I'm avoiding both players where we should be picking for sure. What I was trying to say was that I would rather take Hartman with one of the final picks of the first round (where he's slated to go), than draft Rychel or Erne in the teens (where they are slated to go). But we should be focusing on elite skill in the middle of the first, the draft is good enough to get some there.

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02-21-2013, 03:52 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
You're right. I'm avoiding both players where we should be picking for sure. What I was trying to say was that I would rather take Hartman with one of the final picks of the first round (where he's slated to go), than draft Rychel or Erne in the teens (where they are slated to go). But we should be focusing on elite skill in the middle of the first, the draft is good enough to get some there.
That's why I've settled on Mantha in that range. One of the best pure scorers in the draft.

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02-21-2013, 03:57 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
That's why I've settled on Mantha in that range. One of the best pure scorers in the draft.
Mantha is definitely a step above the Rychel/Hartman/Erne crew for me. However, I would still place him below Lazar/Wennberg and even Morrissey.

For what it's worth, I think Nonis will be looking for a centre this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf7pMX8LT_E if you start listening at 40 seconds, you'll hear him say that last year (with all things being equal), they would be looking to take a centre.

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02-21-2013, 04:01 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by BBurke View Post
Mantha is definitely a step above the Rychel/Hartman/Erne crew for me. However, I would still place him below Lazar/Wennberg and even Morrissey.

For what it's worth, I think Nonis will be looking for a centre this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gf7pMX8LT_E if you start listening at 40 seconds, you'll hear him say that last year (with all things being equal), they would be looking to take a centre.
Oh, I know... lol

Organizations aren't blind or stupid. BPA is a factor, but need at position also factors into personnel decisions made. I'm not saying it's the basis for a pick, but it's certainly considered.

I honestly don't think Lazar even comes close to the potential of Mantha, despite at the time, being a safer pick. I like Lazar, and wouldn't be upset picking him, but I think it's time to take a swing for a high-potential offensive player, and the middle of the 1st round is a great place to do it.

I don't know too much about Wennberg, but he's good from what I've seen. I wasn't Wow'd by him at all, and he didn't seem a better prospect than Forsberg, despite putting up better draft year numbers.

I'm conflicted at this stage of the 1st round, because there are so many guys who make sense here. I think quite a few of them would be top 10 picks most years, too.

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02-21-2013, 04:08 PM
  #391
Bernier the Boats
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Originally Posted by ErnieLeafs View Post
Oh, I know... lol

Organizations aren't blind or stupid. BPA is a factor, but need at position also factors into personnel decisions made. I'm not saying it's the basis for a pick, but it's certainly considered.

I honestly don't think Lazar even comes close to the potential of Mantha, despite at the time, being a safer pick. I like Lazar, and wouldn't be upset picking him, but I think it's time to take a swing for a high-potential offensive player, and the middle of the 1st round is a great place to do it.

I don't know too much about Wennberg, but he's good from what I've seen. I wasn't Wow'd by him at all, and he didn't seem a better prospect than Forsberg, despite putting up better draft year numbers.

I'm conflicted at this stage of the 1st round, because there are so many guys who make sense here. I think quite a few of them would be top 10 picks most years, too.
Lazar quietly has 33 goals this season, is a fantastic skater by all accounts, was drafted 2nd overall to the WHL in the bantam draft (compared to Mantha's 5th round in the Q), plays a willing defensive game, can slot in at all 3 forward positions, can play on any line (played with MacKinnon at the Ivan Hlinka and was fantastic), and steps his game up in the playoffs. I think the assists total is deceiving, and once St.Croix graduates you will see Lazar take over the half wall on the power play (instead of playing in front of the net). He is also already an assistant captain.

I don't mean to fanboy Lazar too much, I'm just trying to point out that he should still be seen as a top-of-the-round talent like he was at the beginning of the year.


EDIT: Another 4 points for Drouin today, he's up to 86 in 40 games. What a talent.


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02-21-2013, 04:10 PM
  #392
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Your username makes so much more sense now
haha yep

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02-21-2013, 05:16 PM
  #393
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Hartman vs Rychel

Hartman is the guy that is on top.


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02-21-2013, 05:22 PM
  #394
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I don't really like Pulock at all (skating is a big concern for me with him), and I like Bailey and Hartman but certainly not in the middle of the first round. If somehow Bailey/Lodge were available with our 2nd round pick I would be very happy. I really want a big RH centre in the system.
Not sure why? Pulock is hardly a bad skater. Is he Rielly or more realistically Blacker for that matter, no, but he plays a sound positional smart game. If you have a D man like let's say Darnell Nurse that puts himself in bad positions, then you might have more problems than skating. I'll take Ice Q over good skating and questionable hockey sense anyday.

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02-21-2013, 06:01 PM
  #395
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Going to get another good look at Zadorov, Domi, and Horvat, coming up.

Box seats to the Spits/Knights game on march 10th.

I'll sneak my camera in, and try to get some good pics/video

Sometimes having a fiancé pays off.... Lol


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02-21-2013, 09:21 PM
  #396
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Rychel played like a beast tonight, registering 5 pts.

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02-22-2013, 06:52 PM
  #397
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Another 3 points so far tonight for Drouin, now time for some ridiculous stats. He has 7 points in his last 5 periods (without Nate..), a 23 or 24 game point streak, been held pointless 3 times this year (out of 41) and has 89 points in 41 games. God damn..

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02-22-2013, 09:15 PM
  #398
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Updated Standings Mock

1) Washington – Seth Jones
2) Columbus – Nathan Mackinnon
3) Buffalo – Alex Barkov
4) Calgary – Sean Monahan
5) Florida – Jonathan Drouin
6) New York (I) – Nikita Zadorov
7) Edmonton – Darnell Nurse
8) Winnipeg – Elias Lindholm
9) Colorado – Adam Erne
10) Columbus – Anthony Mantha
11) Philadelphia – Rasmus Ristolainen
12) Detroit – Valeri Nicushkin
13) Dallas – Frederik Gauthier
14) Tampa Bay – Ryan Pulock
15) Carolina – Curtis Lazar
16) Minnesota – Hunter Shinkaruk
17) Columbus – Zach Fucale
18) Phoenix – Alexander Wennberg
19) San Jose – Valentin Zykov
20) St. Louis – Ryan Hartman
21) Nashville – Josh Morrisey
22) Ottawa – Artturi Lehkonen
23) Toronto – Max Domi / Bo Horvat / Kerby Rychel / Jason Dickinson / Robert Hagg / Laurent Dauphin / Connor Hurley / ?

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02-22-2013, 09:19 PM
  #399
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Updated Standings Mock

1) Washington – Seth Jones
2) Columbus – Nathan Mackinnon
3) Buffalo – Alex Barkov
4) Calgary – Sean Monahan
5) Florida – Jonathan Drouin
6) New York (I) – Nikita Zadorov
7) Edmonton – Darnell Nurse
8) Winnipeg – Elias Lindholm
9) Colorado – Adam Erne
10) Columbus – Anthony Mantha
11) Philadelphia – Rasmus Ristolainen
12) Detroit – Valeri Nicushkin
13) Dallas – Frederik Gauthier
14) Tampa Bay – Ryan Pulock
15) Carolina – Curtis Lazar
16) Minnesota – Hunter Shinkaruk
17) Columbus – Zach Fucale
18) Phoenix – Alexander Wennberg
19) San Jose – Valentin Zykov
20) St. Louis – Ryan Hartman
21) Nashville – Josh Morrisey
22) Ottawa – Artturi Lehkonen
23) Toronto – Robert Hagg
That's my guy.

I've got him very high.

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02-22-2013, 10:39 PM
  #400
Bernier the Boats
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That's my guy.

I've got him very high.
Agreed my friend

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