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Oilers lose 2-1 ... again

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Old
02-10-2013, 03:20 AM
  #451
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Probably, though I seriously do think Brian Burke will be considered if he's still available and Tambo is out.

People forget that Kaberle was the Leafs best player when he inherited that club in 2008 (well Sundin too, but he semi-retired).

Just make sure the guy has decent goaltending. But honestly the Lupul trade, the JVR trade, even the Phaneuf trade (gave Sutter garbage even if Dion is overrated) were wins for the Leafs and Kadri looks like a decent pick.

He'll always be dogged by that Kessel offer sheet, but I think the Leafs impatient management pushed him into that, and it's not like Kessel isn't a pretty darn good player (4 time 30 goal scorer).

He is loud and to the point no doubt, but maybe it's time we had someone with some fire in their belly running the show.
To be fair the guy took a calculated risk and it didn't pay off. If Toronto had picked anywhere besides top 2 in 2010 he easily wins the Kessel deal.

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02-10-2013, 03:45 AM
  #452
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To be fair the guy took a calculated risk and it didn't pay off. If Toronto had picked anywhere besides top 2 in 2010 he easily wins the Kessel deal.
He has a habit of winning most trades, he fleeced Lowe for Pronger, that trade was only redeemed by the fact that we fluked out with Eberle on the late 1st rounder. Also getting both the Sedins was a huge coup that obviously has kept Vancouver at the top of the division for 5 years running.

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02-10-2013, 04:49 AM
  #453
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We're missing Horcoff, Belanger, Jones, Eager, Fistric.

...And RNH, Eberle, and Hall

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02-10-2013, 07:14 AM
  #454
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IATL that 5 year rebuild was for us to be legit contenders for the Stanley cup. This year we should be pushing for a playoff spot at minimum. We should have more then 1 regulation win in 11 games! How much more leniency does this management regime get?
I dont think those are reasonable expectations. You cant tear a team down, and I mean right down and expect to be in the playoffs three years later. It just doesnt work like that.

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02-10-2013, 09:35 AM
  #455
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anyone think tambo is going to do anything to address the holes the team has, or is he just going to sit on his hands as usual.

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02-10-2013, 09:37 AM
  #456
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anyone think tambo is going to do anything to address the holes the team has, or is he just going to sit on his hands as usual.
Sit as per usual .. Sigh..

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02-10-2013, 09:42 AM
  #457
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I dont think those are reasonable expectations. You cant tear a team down, and I mean right down and expect to be in the playoffs three years later. It just doesnt work like that.
but you can expect "the best young talent in the game" to have a higher level of compete and not be in the bottom of the league in some very important stats, especially the putrid 5x5 scoring.
we're about at 25% of the season gone and there has to be a frank discussion about where the team is, it's pace of development, and Tambos shaping of the team.
the team has been in rebuild for quite some time, even if it wasn't admitted until 3 years ago. what do the oilers have this year, one win in regulation?

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02-10-2013, 09:51 AM
  #458
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GDT anyone? I would do it but i have work to do.

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02-10-2013, 09:57 AM
  #459
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I just read the 1st page of the thread. I missed the game, so I thought I'd come here to see how we played. From what I heard on the radio, Khabby played really well and we couldn't convert on the PP.

Otherwise a pretty good game by the Oil.

Is this synopsis incorrect?

I'm just going by what the guys on Tencer's show were saying. Some of the above was also mentioned in here, but geez.

"We suck" doesn't much help my understanding of the game I missed.

I expect a little more from the HF team. Try harder, and put a little effort into your posts. We won't win an HF Boards Cup, or even make the playoffs, if the team doesn't pull together in all 3 zones and relate gameplay properly!


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02-10-2013, 10:16 AM
  #460
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont think those are reasonable expectations. You cant tear a team down, and I mean right down and expect to be in the playoffs three years later. It just doesnt work like that.
If you look at Chicago's rebuild they challenged for a playoff spot the year after drafting Kane and made the playoffs within two years. I know it could be argued that their rebuild started in 04 when they picked Barker but that still only gives them 5 years where they were out of the playoffs and there two high picks from 04 and 05(Barker and Skille) hardly contributed to the team taking the next step. We have 4 high picks on this team who all have contributed a decent amount and we still suck. Thats on the GM. Wish we could have got Tallon as a GM the guy is a genius.

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02-10-2013, 10:35 AM
  #461
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If you look at Chicago's rebuild they challenged for a playoff spot the year after drafting Kane and made the playoffs within two years. I know it could be argued that their rebuild started in 04 when they picked Barker but that still only gives them 5 years where they were out of the playoffs and there two high picks from 04 and 05(Barker and Skille) hardly contributed to the team taking the next step. We have 4 high picks on this team who all have contributed a decent amount and we still suck. Thats on the GM. Wish we could have got Tallon as a GM the guy is a genius.
The Blackhawks missed the playoffs nine out of ten years before turning it around. They didnt start rebuilding in 04. They were wandering in the desert for ten years.

Fact is we are in year three of a five year rebuild. People have been kicking and screaming since day one. Narnia was most certainly spot on when she said that Oiler fans couldnt handle a rebuild.

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02-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #462
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We're missing Horcoff, Belanger, Jones, Eager, Fistric.

...And RNH, Eberle, and Hall
Joking aside its a very relevant point. People are saying this is on the vets but WHERE are the young superstars right now? Eberle, who looks like he can score at will on some nights goes half a dozen games looking like he can't finish anything. Hall has spent the entire season looking confused, and RNH has been an offensive shadow sporting worse than Omark numbers considering his toi, PP toi, and linemates and again mentioning that merely playing with J Schultz is adding pts to your resume.

Heres an interesting tidbit. RNH has the most PPminutes/game on this club and the worst production/minute of any of the regular PP forwards on this club. In over 48mins PP time he's registered 1 second assist. Thats it. In 10GP. More interesting that Kreuger plays him more than anybody else when he's been a wet blanket on the PP.

The topline should have been owning. Already. Few teams in the league has this kind of a collection of elite youth assembled in one unit. I was on them for slacking in OKC and I'll be on them now.
The Vets on this club are supporting cast, and can fill that role and have. But when they see young uber kids not listening to game plan and freelancing their way through whole segments in the schedulle as they did in OKC, and now here, and last year, it kills the other players intensity to see that, it kills coaches(literally)year after year to see that.

We have a much larger problem here then the vets on this club. How well are Eberle, Hall, RNH, responding to direction? How much are they learning? What indication is there that they are developing and improving their games?

I'll give one illustration of this for now. This year and last both coaches have repeatedly been telling the players they want short, intense, quick, energy shifts. Get on, play your hardest, get off, role lines. Thats the play both coaches have repeatedly requested. But now through two coaches in successive years what are still seeing repeatedly? Guys like Eberle, RNH, out on the ice for nearly 2 minute stretches playing dog tired and caught in own zone when they had multiple chances to get off. This happened 3 times last night. Nobody notices stuff like that? I'm sure every veteran on the club notices it and the coaches what to do with players that are repeatedly told one thing, and regularly do another. A shift on this club is supposed to be around 40secs. This is what the coaches have said.

Its interesting to say the least that a raw rookie, Yakupov, has been better than any of them. Not hard to imagine either who the best forward in this lineup is likely going to be going forward.


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02-10-2013, 11:07 AM
  #463
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
The Blackhawks missed the playoffs nine out of ten years before turning it around. They didnt start rebuilding in 04. They were wandering in the desert for ten years.

Fact is we are in year three of a five year rebuild. People have been kicking and screaming since day one. Narnia was most certainly spot on when she said that Oiler fans couldnt handle a rebuild.
They also retooled twice during that time span, and Edmonton has had one playoff appearance in the last 9 seasons going on 10 this year if we dont make it. So I'm really not sure what you were trying to get at.

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02-10-2013, 11:15 AM
  #464
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I see a lot of discussion about the players, which leads me to believe you guys are missing the point. You have talent on the ice. Or you better damn well have with all those lottery picks.

The problem is more likely a problem of organizational structure, culture, leadership, identity, etc.

-Success needs to be just 'another day at the office'.

-All players need to be accountable.

-A leader must emerge from the youngsters.


Just my two cents from what I see.

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02-10-2013, 11:18 AM
  #465
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I see a lot of discussion about the players, which leads me to believe you guys are missing the point. You have talent on the ice. Or you better damn well have with all those lottery picks.

The problem is more likely a problem of organizational structure, culture, leadership, identity, etc.

-Success needs to be just 'another day at the office'.

-All players need to be accountable.

-A leader must emerge from the youngsters.


Just my two cents from what I see.
Very true, you guys had that with Stevie Y and Nick all those years.

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02-10-2013, 11:27 AM
  #466
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Very true, you guys had that with Stevie Y and Nick all those years.
Theres no alpha player here. There hasn't been since Pronger. Which is why we've had 4 coaches in the last 5 seasons.

The Oil, and every player on the team, were imminently different not only because of Pronger but because in every way he was the hub on the wheel. A player that made everybody around him HAVE to be better. Not too curiously several players on the club had best ever years that year.


Of the players we have only Yak, Hall, J Schultz look like they could even possibly play this role. Outside chance with RNH but whole persona and stature would need to change.

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02-10-2013, 11:44 AM
  #467
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Theres no alpha player here. There hasn't been since Pronger. Which is why we've had 4 coaches in the last 5 seasons.

The Oil, and every player on the team, were imminently different not only because of Pronger but because in every way he was the hub on the wheel. A player that made everybody around him HAVE to be better. Not too curiously several players on the club had best ever years that year.


Of the players we have only Yak, Hall, J Schultz look like they could even possibly play this role. Outside chance with RNH but whole persona and stature would need to change.
Yup, we need that leader...Hall seems to be the logical choice. Hopefully he steps up into that role.

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02-10-2013, 12:04 PM
  #468
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Joking aside its a very relevant point. People are saying this is on the vets but WHERE are the young superstars right now? Eberle, who looks like he can score at will on some nights goes half a dozen games looking like he can't finish anything. Hall has spent the entire season looking confused, and RNH has been an offensive shadow sporting worse than Omark numbers considering his toi, PP toi, and linemates and again mentioning that merely playing with J Schultz is adding pts to your resume.

Heres an interesting tidbit. RNH has the most PPminutes/game on this club and the worst production/minute of any of the regular PP forwards on this club. In over 48mins PP time he's registered 1 second assist. Thats it. In 10GP. More interesting that Kreuger plays him more than anybody else when he's been a wet blanket on the PP.

The topline should have been owning. Already. Few teams in the league has this kind of a collection of elite youth assembled in one unit. I was on them for slacking in OKC and I'll be on them now.
The Vets on this club are supporting cast, and can fill that role and have. But when they see young uber kids not listening to game plan and freelancing their way through whole segments in the schedulle as they did in OKC, and now here, and last year, it kills the other players intensity to see that, it kills coaches(literally)year after year to see that.

We have a much larger problem here then the vets on this club. How well are Eberle, Hall, RNH, responding to direction? How much are they learning? What indication is there that they are developing and improving their games?

I'll give one illustration of this for now. This year and last both coaches have repeatedly been telling the players they want short, intense, quick, energy shifts. Get on, play your hardest, get off, role lines. Thats the play both coaches have repeatedly requested. But now through two coaches in successive years what are still seeing repeatedly? Guys like Eberle, RNH, out on the ice for nearly 2 minute stretches playing dog tired and caught in own zone when they had multiple chances to get off. This happened 3 times last night. Nobody notices stuff like that? I'm sure every veteran on the club notices it and the coaches what to do with players that are repeatedly told one thing, and regularly do another. A shift on this club is supposed to be around 40secs. This is what the coaches have said.

Its interesting to say the least that a raw rookie, Yakupov, has been better than any of them. Not hard to imagine either who the best forward in this lineup is likely going to be going forward.
a lot of truth here. and a very excellent point in regards to the length of shifts. would love to see Krueger have enough stones to bench the young guys for a period when they take those extended shifts.

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02-10-2013, 12:11 PM
  #469
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a lot of truth here. and a very excellent point in regards to the length of shifts. would love to see Krueger have enough stones to bench the young guys for a period when they take those extended shifts.
At least 2 times now in practice its been reported that Kreuger had extensive discussion with the topline about the lengths of their shifts. One time he talked to them on ice about it for a reported 15mins. With the whole club knowing it was going on. This was basically Kruegers version of "reaming somebody out" although I doubt it got loud at any point.

Few things are as tangible in response, and attention to detail as shift length. Its one of the easiest and most regular ways to tell if a player, or line is listening to direction or not. I bring it up because it is such a tangible and defined variable.

This is interesting to see as well.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

The topline hasn't been granted appreciably more shifts than the second line. But they have an average of 3 more minutes of toi/game than any other forward. For instance, Gagner, who does listen to direction has the identical number of shifts, but nearly 3mins less toi /game because he's consistently coming off the ice when he should. What kind of performance and jump are we really getting out of the topline in those 3 extra minutes of extended shifts every game?

Heres an astounding figure. Gagner has 30more shifts than RNH this year because Gagner is on pk rotation and has played one more game. But somehow RNH has 7more minutes played. Suggesting that he really has a habit of staying out there too long relative to the other topsix Center. Not to mention RNH is staying out there longer and not getting anything done.
From observing I can tell you when Eberle and RNH pay the least attention to ever getting off the ice is on the PP.


Last edited by Replacement: 02-10-2013 at 12:24 PM.
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02-10-2013, 12:19 PM
  #470
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I just read the 1st page of the thread. I missed the game, so I thought I'd come here to see how we played. From what I heard on the radio, Khabby played really well and we couldn't convert on the PP.

Otherwise a pretty good game by the Oil.

Is this synopsis incorrect?

I'm just going by what the guys on Tencer's show were saying. Some of the above was also mentioned in here, but geez.
It looked like a team that won 4 cups facing a team en route to 4 lottery finishes.
Ice seemed tilted to our end, they put on a clinic on how to execute a crisp pass with purpose, and we showed our ability to blindly hail mary pass to areas that a Red Wing got to first.


It was simply a better team playing better. Beating a worse team playing poorly.

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02-10-2013, 12:27 PM
  #471
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I don't think anyone is defending management here...I'm defending players that bust their ass everyday trying to win and then get trashed daily by their "fans".

Management hasn't iced a team capable of making the playoffs since the run in 06, that should be pretty clear to most people.

EDIT: Maybe the 08 team, prior to the Vis injury, but that's debateable.
I like you as a poster but this is nonsense. The players deserve to be called out if they aren't performing up to par. Fans are allowed to voice their displeasure without getting called out by holier than thou posts telling them to calm down.

I understand that some fans overreact after losses sometimes myself included but this is built up frustration after 3 years of awful hockey and the team this season quite frankly, doesn't look much better at all so even myself who has been patient up until this season is starting to lose patience and the frustration is boiling over.

Fans want to see some pay off after 3 years of patience watching awful products and it's just not happening, the team is getting outplayed a lot even in the wins and we're getting sick of watching them being outmatched just about every game.

I didn't expect this to be a playoff team. I think that 10th in the conference, 20-22nd in the NHL is a reasonable expectation but it's the way they are playing that's aggravating. It seems that they haven't learned a thing from last season and they have the same exact bad habits that they had last season. It's pretty disconcerting to see a team despite the decent record, that hasn't improved at all or very little from last years 29th place team.


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02-10-2013, 12:31 PM
  #472
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At least 2 times now in practice its been reported that Kreuger had extensive discussion with the topline about the lengths of their shifts. One time he talked to them on ice about it for a reported 15mins. With the whole club knowing it was going on. This was basically Kruegers version of "reaming somebody out" although I doubt it got loud at any point.

Few things are as tangible in response, and attention to detail as shift length. Its one of the easiest and most regular ways to tell if a player, or line is listening to direction or not. I bring it up because it is such a tangible and defined variable.

This is interesting to see as well.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

The topline hasn't been granted appreciably more shifts than the second line. But they have an average of 3 more minutes of toi/game than any other forward. For instance, Gagner, who does listen to direction has the identical number of shifts, but nearly 3mins less toi /game because he's consistently coming off the ice when he should. What kind of performance and jump are we really getting out of the topline in those 3 extra minutes of extended shifts every game?

Heres an astounding figure. Gagner has 30more shifts than RNH this year because Gagner is on pk rotation and has played one more game. But somehow RNH has 7more minutes played. Suggesting that he really has a habit of staying out there too long relative to the other topsix Center. Not to mention RNH is staying out there longer and not getting anything done.
From observing I can tell you when Eberle and RNH pay the least attention to ever getting off the ice is on the PP.
you should post this in every single thread.

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02-10-2013, 12:43 PM
  #473
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you should post this in every single thread.
Its not a popular view and would get shouted out everytime. This is the board that loves new prospects to death, until they don't. According to this board the worst thing a player could ever do here, is stay here, because by year 3 and up the critics are having a field day.

The most popular players here are new players and prospects. Always how its been.

Gagner is chopped chicken liver and anybody new, Omark, Paajarvi, etc etc is better.

Its like noise.

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02-10-2013, 12:52 PM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Perfect_Drug View Post
It looked like a team that won 4 cups facing a team en route to 4 lottery finishes.
Ice seemed tilted to our end, they put on a clinic on how to execute a crisp pass with purpose, and we showed our ability to blindly hail mary pass to areas that a Red Wing got to first.


It was simply a better team playing better. Beating a worse team playing poorly.
Thanks for the run down Perfect Drug.

Pretty much what I expected yesterday.

This Oil team still has a lot of growing and maturity to go. They're gonna have a tough time against the more mature teams until they begin to learn how to win.

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02-10-2013, 02:10 PM
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At least 2 times now in practice its been reported that Kreuger had extensive discussion with the topline about the lengths of their shifts. One time he talked to them on ice about it for a reported 15mins. With the whole club knowing it was going on. This was basically Kruegers version of "reaming somebody out" although I doubt it got loud at any point.

Few things are as tangible in response, and attention to detail as shift length. Its one of the easiest and most regular ways to tell if a player, or line is listening to direction or not. I bring it up because it is such a tangible and defined variable.

This is interesting to see as well.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

The topline hasn't been granted appreciably more shifts than the second line. But they have an average of 3 more minutes of toi/game than any other forward. For instance, Gagner, who does listen to direction has the identical number of shifts, but nearly 3mins less toi /game because he's consistently coming off the ice when he should. What kind of performance and jump are we really getting out of the topline in those 3 extra minutes of extended shifts every game?

Heres an astounding figure. Gagner has 30more shifts than RNH this year because Gagner is on pk rotation and has played one more game. But somehow RNH has 7more minutes played. Suggesting that he really has a habit of staying out there too long relative to the other topsix Center. Not to mention RNH is staying out there longer and not getting anything done.
From observing I can tell you when Eberle and RNH pay the least attention to ever getting off the ice is on the PP.
I noticed they were taking longer shifts, but damn... I had no idea it was that bad.

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