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Oilers/Canes prop.

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Old
09-27-2003, 07:58 PM
  #1
thome_26
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Oilers/Canes prop.

This is a prop. that some of you will initially shake your head and laugh at. But here me out (I'm sure some of you will still shake your head and/or laugh).

To Edmonton:
Rod Brind'Amour, third
To Carolina:
second, Horcoff

FIRST BEFORE PEOPLE GET EXCITED... this is assuming that Carolina DOES lose lots as expected. But the big thing I'm sure is $. Well here is my reasoning why they could afford him:

1.Comrie will probably never play another game for the Oilers. He got paid 4.5 million bucks last year so that right there is a big chunk of change that the Oilers have to spend

2.Last years Deadline deals will save the Oilers JUST under a million dollars. Dvo and Izzy's salary are about a million cheaper then Niinima's and Carters last year.

3. Sure the Oilers paid a million and change to re-resign Cross, but they let Marchant go for nothing, so they didn't add any salary there.

4.The Canadian Dollar is MUCH stronger and that will make a huge difference in what the Oilers can afford to spend (I remember reading or hearing that the difference of the Dollar right now as to last year would have ment the Oilers would have make a couple hundred thousand instead of losing a couple million).

5.The Oilers will make lots of money off of the Heritage classic and ticket sales will increase from last year unless the team does a nose dive (but even at that there are so many season tickets sold that not one walk up buyer could come and the Oilers would still have good attendance).

So with the big thing obviously being Comrie's 4.5 that means the Oilers need $.5 million dollars American to not increase the payroll one sent from last year.

What do you guys think? Is there holes in my $ figuring? Is the trade close for Brind'Amour if the Canes DO lose as expected (what does a losing/rebuilding team need a UFA to be for??)
Also another thing that could be taken from this is that Lowe would be killing ANY leverage that Comrie currently holds.

From a hockey sense this would make sense for the Oilers. It would suck to see Horcoff go, but the Oilers are supper deep on the left side, and with Brind'Amour they would be really good up the middle. The Oilers are already the youngest team in the league and have Mikhnov, Rita on the left side that aren't to far away (if you consider him a LWer). If you want him to be a center - we have Winchester/Stoll who are getting damn close (Stoll perhaps even this year).

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Old
09-27-2003, 08:00 PM
  #2
thome_26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
This is a prop. that some of you will initially shake your head and laugh at. But here me out (I'm sure some of you will still shake your head and/or laugh).

To Edmonton:
Rod Brind'Amour, third
To Carolina:
second, Horcoff

FIRST BEFORE PEOPLE GET EXCITED... this is assuming that Carolina DOES lose lots as expected. But the big thing I'm sure is $. Well here is my reasoning why they could afford him:

1.Comrie will probably never play another game for the Oilers. He got paid 4.5 million bucks last year so that right there is a big chunk of change that the Oilers have to spend

2.Last years Deadline deals will save the Oilers JUST under a million dollars. Dvo and Izzy's salary are about a million cheaper then Niinima's and Carters last year.

3. Sure the Oilers paid a million and change to re-resign Cross, but they let Marchant go for nothing, so they didn't add any salary there.

4.The Canadian Dollar is MUCH stronger and that will make a huge difference in what the Oilers can afford to spend (I remember reading or hearing that the difference of the Dollar right now as to last year would have ment the Oilers would have make a couple hundred thousand instead of losing a couple million).

5.The Oilers will make lots of money off of the Heritage classic and ticket sales will increase from last year unless the team does a nose dive (but even at that there are so many season tickets sold that not one walk up buyer could come and the Oilers would still have good attendance).

So with the big thing obviously being Comrie's 4.5 that means the Oilers need $.5 million dollars American to not increase the payroll one sent from last year.

What do you guys think? Is there holes in my $ figuring? Is the trade close for Brind'Amour if the Canes DO lose as expected (what does a losing/rebuilding team need a UFA to be for??)
Also another thing that could be taken from this is that Lowe would be killing ANY leverage that Comrie currently holds.

From a hockey sense this would make sense for the Oilers. It would suck to see Horcoff go, but the Oilers are supper deep on the left side, and with Brind'Amour they would be really good up the middle. The Oilers are already the youngest team in the league and have Mikhnov, Rita on the left side that aren't to far away (if you consider him a LWer). If you want him to be a center - we have Winchester/Stoll who are getting damn close (Stoll perhaps even this year).
edit: Also, MacT likes Brind'Amour, so thats another positive.

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Old
09-27-2003, 08:32 PM
  #3
Oiltown16
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I don't know...I think after Horcoffs potential breakout last year, and still being quite young the Oilers may pass

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Old
09-27-2003, 08:41 PM
  #4
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I dont think the canes will be anywhere near as bad as they were last season.They should contend for a playoff spot after suffering last seasons SCF hangover.Pretty much everything that could go wrong did for the canes last year and they should rebound this season.

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Old
09-27-2003, 08:41 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltown16
I don't know...I think after Horcoffs potential breakout last year, and still being quite young the Oilers may pass
I know he's good and young, but the he for sure won't be as good as Brind'Amour this year - and almost 100% for sure never will be. Why not spend a bit of the future (which is SO loaded) and get some help for now?

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Old
09-27-2003, 08:43 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
I dont think the canes will be anywhere near as bad as they were last season.They should contend for a playoff spot after suffering last seasons SCF hangover.Pretty much everything that could go wrong did for the canes last year and they should rebound this season.
I dunno man - they really over-achieved two years ago - and they aren't as good today as they were then.

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09-27-2003, 08:45 PM
  #7
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I'll have to agree with Oiltown. While the proposal is certainly credible (I don't think anyone will laugh), it's not an Oil trade. Edmonton is always building towards something that will never happen and Horcoff is very much ppart of that foundation. The Oil usually trade older more experienced and more expensive players for youth. Brind'Amour would certainly look good in Edmonton, but when the Oil pick up any vetern leadership it is usually cheap and through free agency -- something they also very rarely do.

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Old
09-27-2003, 09:05 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
I'll have to agree with Oiltown. While the proposal is certainly credible (I don't think anyone will laugh), it's not an Oil trade. Edmonton is always building towards something that will never happen and Horcoff is very much ppart of that foundation. The Oil usually trade older more experienced and more expensive players for youth. Brind'Amour would certainly look good in Edmonton, but when the Oil pick up any vetern leadership it is usually cheap and through free agency -- something they also very rarely do.
But that is my entire point. The Oilers future has all kinds of players who will be able to play BIG roles. But eventually you have to make that jump, and I know Lowe wants/expects that this year should be the year. If he is serious a deal like this wouldn't/shouldn't be something he doesn't strongly considered if it's on the table (which I know its not).

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Old
09-27-2003, 09:21 PM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
I dunno man - they really over-achieved two years ago - and they aren't as good today as they were then.
I agree,i think they are somewhere in between the SC finalists and the disaster they were last year.I see them finishing around 7-10 in the east.

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Old
09-27-2003, 09:25 PM
  #10
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I just can't see them moving any of the important pieces for post-CBA. Comrie was also considered part of that blueprint, but unforeseen circumstances...that horse has been beat to death.

For Lowe, it might come down to this: A Horcoff for Brind-Amour deal WILL improve the team for next season, but what can Brind'Amour give the team after the CBA. He could very well be 35 and have a good season or two left. Horcoff quite possibly could be with the team for another decade if the CBA sets up a cap and the NHL is operated under a different economic umbrella.

While most teams in the higher economic tier of the league would make this deal in a second, Edmonton would surprise the hell out of me (in a wonderful way) if they did.

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Old
09-27-2003, 09:53 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thome_26
This is a prop. that some of you will initially shake your head and laugh at. But here me out (I'm sure some of you will still shake your head and/or laugh).

To Edmonton:
Rod Brind'Amour, third
To Carolina:
second, Horcoff

FIRST BEFORE PEOPLE GET EXCITED... this is assuming that Carolina DOES lose lots as expected. But the big thing I'm sure is $. Well here is my reasoning why they could afford him:

1.Comrie will probably never play another game for the Oilers. He got paid 4.5 million bucks last year so that right there is a big chunk of change that the Oilers have to spend

2.Last years Deadline deals will save the Oilers JUST under a million dollars. Dvo and Izzy's salary are about a million cheaper then Niinima's and Carters last year.

3. Sure the Oilers paid a million and change to re-resign Cross, but they let Marchant go for nothing, so they didn't add any salary there.

4.The Canadian Dollar is MUCH stronger and that will make a huge difference in what the Oilers can afford to spend (I remember reading or hearing that the difference of the Dollar right now as to last year would have ment the Oilers would have make a couple hundred thousand instead of losing a couple million).

5.The Oilers will make lots of money off of the Heritage classic and ticket sales will increase from last year unless the team does a nose dive (but even at that there are so many season tickets sold that not one walk up buyer could come and the Oilers would still have good attendance).

So with the big thing obviously being Comrie's 4.5 that means the Oilers need $.5 million dollars American to not increase the payroll one sent from last year.

What do you guys think? Is there holes in my $ figuring? Is the trade close for Brind'Amour if the Canes DO lose as expected (what does a losing/rebuilding team need a UFA to be for??)
Also another thing that could be taken from this is that Lowe would be killing ANY leverage that Comrie currently holds.

From a hockey sense this would make sense for the Oilers. It would suck to see Horcoff go, but the Oilers are supper deep on the left side, and with Brind'Amour they would be really good up the middle. The Oilers are already the youngest team in the league and have Mikhnov, Rita on the left side that aren't to far away (if you consider him a LWer). If you want him to be a center - we have Winchester/Stoll who are getting damn close (Stoll perhaps even this year).
You couldn't Brindy for Horcoff and a 2nd. Carolina is a real candidate to make the playoffs again and they need Brindy to do that. They'll keep him for that reason.

If Carolina is out of the playoffs at the deadline they may deal Brindy. They'll get a lot more than Horcoff and a 2nd rounder. Brind'Amour is an impact player, a player made for the playoffs. Unless Horcoff puts up 20 goals this year the trade isn't even close.

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Old
09-27-2003, 09:53 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
I just can't see them moving any of the important pieces for post-CBA. Comrie was also considered part of that blueprint, but unforeseen circumstances...that horse has been beat to death.

For Lowe, it might come down to this: A Horcoff for Brind-Amour deal WILL improve the team for next season, but what can Brind'Amour give the team after the CBA. He could very well be 35 and have a good season or two left. Horcoff quite possibly could be with the team for another decade if the CBA sets up a cap and the NHL is operated under a different economic umbrella.

While most teams in the higher economic tier of the league would make this deal in a second, Edmonton would surprise the hell out of me (in a wonderful way) if they did.
I know Horcoff is younger and has ALOT longer of a future. BUT with Niinimaki, Pouliot, Stoll, Winchester and Comrie (ok, i know, what ever they probably will get for Comrie) up the middle that will be fine for years. On the left side, Torres, Rita, Mikhnov, and I guess even Smyth and Isbister are young enough to have another 10 seasons in the league. So really... how badly do we need Horc in the future?? I don't think we need him as much in 5 years as what we need a guy like Brind'Amour today.
I also think that the Canes are a team who will have another top ten pick this year (and not because of a trade). I don't see them any where near the playoff picture..... questionable goaltending, a slowing Francis, and no Kapanen this year will make a big difference IMO.

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Old
09-27-2003, 10:00 PM
  #13
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Thome!

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just don't think Lowe or the Oil's owners and accountants will.

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Old
09-27-2003, 10:10 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter orange
Thome!

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Just don't think Lowe or the Oil's owners and accountants will.
glad to have support... but I mean from what I pointed out financially, I don't see how the Oilers COULDN'T afford it... I mean there are all these teams losing HOW many millions a year... and if us Oiler fans don't deserve what a Blues or Flyers fan does then something is terribly wrong!

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Old
09-28-2003, 03:47 AM
  #15
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Canes rely on brindamour's offense too heavily to deal him for horcoff, at least right now. If horcoff doubled his goal total then perhaps the canes might listen, but at that point he might be more than equal to a brindamour and SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.
The picks dont really do anything to enhance the deal enough to make the canes want to write off the season.
If edmonton were to add in a winger with some offensive upside, say Hemsky for brindamour. then I think the canes would listen. But why would the OIL want to make that deal ?
It just doesn't add up

I think if the oilers are going to go out and trade a horcoff they should attempt to get back a blueliner instead of a forward.

Also I think the Canes blueline is very underated this year. They have some nice offensive talent in Hedican and Markov, solid vets in Glen Wesley and Sean Hill add to that bobby boughner and the kid Saint Jacques. Its not that shabby.

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Old
09-28-2003, 07:41 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donpaulo
Canes rely on brindamour's offense too heavily to deal him for horcoff, at least right now. If horcoff doubled his goal total then perhaps the canes might listen, but at that point he might be more than equal to a brindamour and SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper.
The picks dont really do anything to enhance the deal enough to make the canes want to write off the season.
If edmonton were to add in a winger with some offensive upside, say Hemsky for brindamour. then I think the canes would listen. But why would the OIL want to make that deal ?
It just doesn't add up

I think if the oilers are going to go out and trade a horcoff they should attempt to get back a blueliner instead of a forward.

Also I think the Canes blueline is very underated this year. They have some nice offensive talent in Hedican and Markov, solid vets in Glen Wesley and Sean Hill add to that bobby boughner and the kid Saint Jacques. Its not that shabby.
Brind'Amour is going to be a UFA. You don't get fair value for UFA to bes. Like I said, this deal would be if the Canes are losing - which I, and many other sports analysts/broadcasters think too. I mean two years ago when they made the playoffs (just the playoffs, not even the second round) they were already over-achieving. There team isn't nearly as good as what it was two years ago, and they won't over achieve like they did two years ago again. Valuewise, Horcoff and a second is pretty damn close what you'd see for Brind'Amour, who isn't (as said) an impact player. He's a career second liner. One of THE BEST second liners, if not the best, but still a second liner. If Horcoff were on pace for 40 points at time they were talking adding a second would probably be enough.
oh ya.... The Oilers wouldn't offer Hemsky for anybody on their team in the NHL. If Lowe offered Hemsky for Brind'Amour, the Canes would offer to throw in a third to make them look less like robbers.

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